I know I'm an idiot, but...
 

We've recently seen some postings saying essentially, I know it's against the rules, but... Apparently, the "but" is that they are looking for others to say it's okay to break the rules. It's not okay and people on this board should say so. What's more, people should not use this board to circulate schemes that help others break the rules. After all, when the rules get broken, it's the frequent flyers who pay for it. For example, if I finally get into an international first class lounge, I don't want it full of a bunch of people who are flying from Moline to Ft. Wayne but figured they'd buy $10,000 international first class tickets using their Amex cards and knowing that they'd hustle over to the counter before boarding for Ft. Wayne to get refunds. That hurts the very people we are -- frequent flyers. It also taxes the airlines more than they figured the programs would tax them. Then what happens? Cutbacks.

I know. We're each just one person and what's it going to hurt if I cheat the system? Well, if we all do it, it's going to hurt a lot.

So what can we do to stop cheaters. There's plenty of stuff. If I were an accomplished hacker, I'd find out who the person is then notify my airline. Yes, I'm being a narc but rules are rules and, as I said before, when people break them (especially when they knowingly break them), they should pay the price. Here's another thought. Create a bogus identity on Ebay then place a ridiculously high bid on things like systemwide upgrades. Then, when the auction is over, renege on the deal. And keep doing it and doing it and doing it. What's the person going to do. Run to the police, the airline, Ebay? No. They can't. They're doing something against the rules.

Bottom line: If you are going to break the rules, don't ask us for permission and don't make us pay the price for your immoral behavior. (Yes, I said immoral, not illegal). As a lawyer, I know there is nothing "illegal" about selling upgrades, sneaking into lounges under false pretenses, etc. But I do know that it's wrong. Maybe people should try to start living their lives in a manner where they don't have to preface things with "I know it's wrong, but is it okay if I..."

PremEx2000, well spoken! If only more people had your attitude.

Greg

if rule breakers are the scrourge of the earth, narcs are a close second. i highly doubt that the lounges are going to fill up with people buying intl F tickets, and then running to get the refund before they fly.

enforcing all the rules costs money. so as a narc, you increase the cost of business. why dont you instead be a force for positive change, and work with these vile rule-breakers and help them reform? prevention will save the airlines and according to your logic, frequent flyers, more than enforcement. whats cheaper, prison or school? dont be a cop mentality, be a teacher.

next time a guy posts one of his, "but" posts email or post to the person, and try hard not to be holier-than-thou, and try to get them to stop.

lastly, please realize that you dont "have" to be a narc or a tattle-tale. you are CHOOSING to be one. you are kidding yourself if you think the hordes of people sneaking into lounges are FORCING you to be a rat fink.

laslty, continental is shafting their flyers with all their stupid hokey rules and upgrade crap. what caused that? people sneaking? no. so i would prefer you direct your moral vigilance at the airlines, not the tiny handful of people that bend or break the rules.

Can anyone cite a specific instance of a cutback that was caused (correlation is not enough) directly or indirectly by people skirting the rules?

Regarding cutbacks caused by rule breakers, I assume that part of the reason that United has switched from paper upgrades to electronic upgrades in all but one case (SWUs), is because people were selling them in contravention of the Mileage Plus rules. So now, instead of just being able to gift a North American upgrade to a friend of mine, I have to walk 10 blocks to the city ticket office, wait in line, and show identification proving that I'm me so that I can have the electronic upgrade attached to that other person's ticket. It is a huge pain in the .... And aside from cost savings the airline realized from switching from paper to electronic certs, I presume a large part of the reason for this change is because people were routinely selling these certs even though the rules specifically prohibit that. But I don't work for the airline so I can't say for certain that that's the reason for the change.

PremEx2000,

The problem is where exactly to draw the line. The examples you cite may be clear cut, but Flyertalk is full of posts about gray areas like how to participate in targeted promos or get something more out of the programs than was originally intended by the airlines and hotel chains. If you take your position to its logical conclusion, we might as well just shut FT Miles down right now and replace it with copies of the official terms and conditions from each program.

Exactly. The question in the post that PremEx is referencing is a totally valid question. Counselor, the slippery slope argument works in both directions. FT Miles is designed to exploit (yes EXPLOIT) the awards programs out there. Is there a fine line we tread between what counts and what does not? Maybe. But I will take the HHonors points I earn for Priceline stays, and happily accept the promotions I use and are not 'directed' towards me. My 2cents. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

At least we got to the root of PremEX2000's beef:
"I have to walk 10 blocks to the city ticket office, wait in line, and show identification proving that I'm me..... It is a huge pain in the ...."

I believe the move to paperless on these coupons is the same as for printing tickets, cost savings for the airline.
But I could be wrong.

I absolutely agree, and have been preaching that message here repeatedly. Unfortunately, the message generally is met with a bunch of folks desperately attempting to rationalize their dishonesty. It's a sign of the times. But thanks for your post.

P.S. Where oh where is wormwood?

If you started to hack into other people's account information would you not be guilty of what you preach?

Airlines changed over to electronic upgrades becuase it saves them a bunch of money in not having to process the paperwork. It is the same reason why they are pushing E-tickets. If you think the primary reason or even a secondary reason was to cut down on the "cheats" you are sadly mistaken.

As far as the "but" post, who said this person was going to do this--he just posed a question and people responded to it. While you may not like some of the responses, at least you were able to voice your viewpoint.

If you think the world is full of cheats and people looking at ways to break the rules you need to realize this is not a healthy approach to life. Please do not think that your view point is above approach.

Ahh, a voice of reason and reality from the crisp air of the Great Northwest http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Golly, Mr. Cleaver, do people really break the rules?

Let's see, CO's "enhancing" OnePass for 2002 *after* we've already qualified for it. Gordon utters a bald-faced lie about no changes to OnePass, then implements them regardless.

Airlines lie to us all the time about delays, cancellations, "expediting charges", lost luggage, etc. They cram us into ever-shrinking seats, cut meals with no warning, raise change fees to extortionate rates, keep us imprisoned on grounded planes for hours, etc.

The airlines have written the 'rules' to their benefit and try to screw us over as much as possible. And you're advocating holding still for it?

This isn't a church social; it isn't a war either, though. I'm not advocating anything illegal, but have no qualms about exploiting their own "rules" to my benefit.

I think I know what you're trying to say but, PremEx2000, I find your subject header and (the first two paragraphs of your) post incoherent.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004465.html

Is trading UA SWU's is against the rules too? Can we get a ruling from the mileage police?

I'm all for a group hug, but that was hilarious.