Since you think you're all-kowing, please document a single falsehood in any of my posts.

After all, with the Bucs playing on Saturday, you should have a few sober moments this weekend.

Mdtony,
I have heard the same reports but at the same time much of what is being said does not add up. I expect we will find out that he had some people helping him because of finances. That is not gauranteed though. McVey paid for his operation through theft mainly and Reid was a thief. He could have also lived off radical muslims that did not necessarily know exactly what he was doing.

Yet I still doubt that he was part of any major network. First his explosive was amaturish to an extreme and he would have know better about how to insure detonation if he had a bomb expert help him. I also believe we are getting a certain amount of misinformation. The main item that the FBI expert testified to today was that this was an improvised explosive. She also stated that it was not either semtex or C4 but basically a homemade version. He probably bought it, though instead of making it. Like buying designer drugs. Hollowing out the heal of a shoe is not really that complex but must have been done relatively well to not be real obvious. She stated that the amount of explosive involved if detonated could have blown a hole in the aircraft. That said the amount she discussed was in 2 shoes that would not have detonated at the same time. Just because the same chemical is in both semtex and this concoction does not mean they are not equal in explosive potential. The great thing about semtex was it was pound for pound more explosive than even C4. You also can not compare the Lybian device with this. One was a professionally made bomb and the other was again homemade by the FBI definition.

Finally based on the way our legal system works, if the government says that the device would not have been able to work it would eliminate the most serious charge. You would still have making an explosive device but if you pull the trigger on an empty gun you have not commited attempted murder, though you have maybe committed other crimes. The government also probably does not want to explain how bad the device was so that someone else can fix the problem. That said professionals would not have made this mistake and amateurs made probably will not solve all the mistakes that seem to have been made with this device.


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Robert

I doubt they are idiots. It does take skill to tear down a pair of large and tall buldings.

I doubt even new feet security will make any difference at all. If somebody wants to commit acts of terrorism on airplanes, they will. In the US or elsewhere.

Goldlust, I think you are confusing luck (I doubt they thought the buildings would have collapsed) and ruthlessness for intelligence. I am starting with the premise that only idiots would think that the way to solve any problem is through violence. Then there is the fact that only an idiot would think that doing what was done on 9/11 would change US foreign policy in any way that would be favourable to the muslim extremist's cause. Then there is athe fact that only an idiot would interpret the Koran they way these morons do. And on and on and on.

[This message has been edited by Mvic (edited 12-29-2001).]

As a civil engineer friend of mine like to say, it's a lot harder to build things than tearing them down. A terrorist doesn't have to be as smart as we are because his mission is fundamentally one of destruction.

As an aside, there are some problems which can only be solved via violence. The Taliban comes to mind. After years of sanctions as well as diplomatic/economic pressure, it was 3 months worth of direct application of violence that brought the Taliban down.

Well, then I guess your are calling them idiots not because they are stupid but because of the fact that their beliefs are different from your own. I guess I misunderstood then.

What I mean is that I think they are highly skilled and intelligent, however much we might find their beliefs fanatical.
I also doubt that they thought they would change US foreign policy to the better - in order to do so you would need 1) A good and clever president, 2) Members of the US congress with perspective, 3) the support of a majority of the American people.

Since we currently have zero out of those three I am guessing the foreign policy will not change any time soon. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The irony is that the final count now shows Gore as the winner of Florida. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 12-30-2001).]

Goldlust-I disagree, I find nothing they did skillfull or intelligent. From what has been reported they were not very good flight students nor did they perform particularly well academically (at least that is what is suggested by the repots of those who were enrolled in US and European colleges). Perhaps some of the people at the top of the organization had some intelligence, though perhaps as truely intelligent person would have found another way of being active in the political process. I think they were acting on emotion rather than thought, if it was a reasoned decision then I rest my case.

I also have to disagree with you too plato, the way I look at things violence is never justified and after 9/11 I am firmer than ever in this belief despite the obvious temptation to feel otherwise. Please don't bother flaming me for this belief as I already know it is very unpopular, if you have to, at least do it via e-mail(directed at those who feel the need to flame not specifically at Plato who is a most civil poster).

It may be tempting to think of these evil islamic terrorists as stupid or crazy, but I don't think that is often the case. Dangerous assumption. They are often quite smart and quite sane. I wish I could find the article I read earlier talking about this issue...

Good grief, Goldlust, not again!

The real irony is that goldlust said this in the context of a discussion about stupid and insane people -- haha!!

Just teasing you for your odd anti-american views, not trying to really insult. *smile*

Hold on while I cry because of what someone from Denmark thinks. Good grief. Maybe you should be more cognizant of all the money we give your country so you can stay afloat??? It seems like a lot of countries around the world forget about that fact.

Not knowing any terrorists personally for all I know you may well be right. I just have a hard time thinking of people who do what they do in those terms. However, I have to agree with you that underestimating them would not be a smart thing to do.

MJjohn, In case you're new to FT, suggest you do a search under OMNI using Goldlust as keyword. This happens to be one of his more mild remarks after very brief leave of absence.

All the money you give my country? What are you talking about? And FYI the US does not at all give a lot of money to other countries - in fact, the country in the world that gives the most foreign aid per capita is... Denmark.

I am afraid I find you a bit misinformed. I also find the "we do not care what other countries think"-attitude to be most sad.

benoit,hedoman,cactuspete: As always, if you have nothing to add to this discussion save personal comments/attacks regarding me then might I suggest using email instead.

Jesus under which rock did you crawl from under?? Do you know where Denmark is and anything about?? Africa right?? I could say Atlanta is close enough to the Mississippi backwoods but that would be very insulting to the many Atlanta board members.
For you own sake PLEASE DONT POST ANYMORE somebody might stumble on this board and think some of us MAY be even just a little as bloody ignorant as you.
Mike



[This message has been edited by MIKESILV (edited 12-31-2001).]