Definitely not, but I am now thoroughly confused. The folks in Israel are Jews, so what's wrong with referring to them as such? Is it because folks like the KKK use that word to slander these folks?

I have always used that term like someone would use American or Canadian or Russian or French. And it's not like I've lived in some world where I've never been exposed to Jewish people, and not one of them has ever expressed any concern or anger when I refer to the people of Israel as Jews.

But if there's something I don't know, someone please enlighten me.

[This message has been edited by mdtony (edited 12-27-2001).]

[wrong forum]

[This message has been edited by valuemags (edited 12-27-2001).]

mdtony, you'd be right if only Jews lived in Israel and if Israel was the only place where Jews lived. But neither of those two statements is accurate.

Religions of Israel:
Jewish 80.1%
Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni)
Christian 2.1%
Other 3.2%

Religions of the US:
Christian 84%
Jewish 2%
other 4%
none 10%

Since a greater proportion of Americans are Christians than Israelis are Jews, I expect that you'll refer to Americans as Christians in the future?

I agree that most people that are citizens of Israel are Israelis. I am sure most Jewish people will not say anything if you say those jews but I have never heard one say jews in the way you did.


------------------
Robert

Well, let me apologize for any perceived insult or offense. I meant none; and I certainly hope that nobody took any.

And this from a guy who got Yom Kippur and Rosh Hsashana off from school as a kid!

Terenz,

Sometimes if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is in fact a funky goose. Fair enough. That doesn't make it racism to wonder if other quacking, waddling feathered creatures might not be ducks.

The point is that you're ascribing racist motives to people who are simply discussing an incident based upon the information they had at hand from multiple news sources. No one invented the color of his skin or hair or religion.

He DOES appear through the coloring of his skin and hair and facial features to possibly be of middle-eastern origin. The fact that he is a muslim also contributes to this impression. The first NEWS REPORTS described him this way.

Now granted, there are blond hair'd blue eyed muslims and jews. They are however, in the minority. Most persons from the mediterrainian do share dark hair & a swarthy/dusky complexion. Richard Reid has dark hair and a swarthy/dusky complexion.

It's not a leap to think he might be Arab. It's not even a big step. The passengers thought so and they were point blank in his presence for hours.

So.. let's review:
dark hair
swarthy/dusky complexion
muslim
trying to kill a lot of people.

Who else met those criteria? Hmm.. well, I can think of 19 guys right off the bat. More if you start to include various suicide bombers.

Not ONE of whom appear to be blonde hair'd blue eyed guys from Trondheim, Norway.

Frankly, I find it hard to take your complaint very seriously in this instance. While it was a mistake to think him of Arab descent, it was an honest one based upon available information and previous events. That's going to happen from time to time as we are imperfect creatures and occaisionally mistake a goose for a duck.

I personally find it MUCH more troubling that an obvious Arab-American was kept off a flight solely because of his skin color. Once the local law had confirmed he was Secret Service it absolutely WAS NOT an issue of aircraft security.

To argue otherwise is to say that man with absolutely the highest level of security clearance in this country and who is allowed access to The President of The United States on a DAILY and CONTINUING basis is both an immediate threat AND a disloyal citizen with hostile intent to the people of the United States.

THAT, is what that American Airlines pilot directly implied by refusing this Secret Service Agent carriage. He, in effect said: "I don't trust you because you're Arab, and even when shown you are a United States Secret Service agent I still don't trust you.. because you're Arab."

The argument of AA is absolute and utter Horse Hockey and it makes me personally livid that they would even try to stand with the perpetrators of this travesty.

They should rename themselves UN-American Airlines, or maybe just Bigot Air.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[This message has been edited by Bouncer (edited 12-27-2001).]

Just look up all the past postings the member from San Ramon has put here and draw your own conclusion. He/she/it seems to be here for one reasn only.

Terenz, might you bit a bit off (far) left?

FWIW, today's Philadelphia Inquirer reported that the explosive was found to be based on PETN (consistent with Semtex) and not RDX (consistent with C4). Both are high explosives commonly described as "plastic explosive".

And as high explosives, they need a "primary", like a blasting cap, to set them off, it can't be done with a match as others have noted.

Unclear from the news reports whether a "primary" was included in the shoes.

methinks ETOPS1 sounds just a little perturbed right now...

perhaps he should takes his own advice before firing off a post like:

THE CHICK'S A BIMBO.

yeah, maybe she shoulda engaged her brain before her mouth. but our current ratings, rather than accuracy driven media won't allow that....

I was watching CNBC for a bit, and the stuff this joker had in his shoes was the same stuff that was used to blow up the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie.

Also, the ticker said that somehow, the detonating devices got wet. Otherwise, they were of the opinion that the bomb would have gone off.

I'm not sure how much damage he could have done, but seeing how a boombox took down the Pan Am flight, I'm sure it would have been very difficult to get the plane down safely if he succeeded.

No, just human, libertarian, and try to be unbigoted unlike you (see your own post aobut leading the chorus to eject 2-3 Arab men off a SLC-RNO Dl flight).

Terenz, you are full of S%$#@!

Simply relating known/reported/historical facts DOES NOT make anyone a bigot/racist/whatever. White-washing (no pun intended) the truth so as to be PC or minimally offensive to all people at all times does nobody a service and actually is intellectually dishonest. Based on photos on TV and the net, the Reid charactercertainly COULD have passed as middle-eastern, her certainly WAS a Muslim fanatic, and he certainly WAS out to cause trouble.

As for the secret service agent, he's a grown man, he can handle himself and was minimally offended. But I do not fault security for stopping a middle-eastern looking man carrying a weapon in a secured area, certainly after 9-11. Why his ID could not be verified defies belief, however.

In case you forget why certain people are jumpy when they see a fit middle-eastern man, travelling alone, with a weapon:

The men who used passenger jets to attack America on Sept. 11 were Muslim extremists.

Last year, the USS Cole, was attacked by Muslim extremists killing sailors.

In 1998, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim extremists, killing 212 people and wounding thousands.

In 1996, Muslim extremists exploded a truck bomb outside an Air Force housing complex in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 and injuring hundreds more.

In 1995, five Americans were killed in a car bomb explosion executed by Muslim extremists.

In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed by Muslim extremists, killing six and injuring thousands.

Also in 1993, Muslim extremists plotted to assassinate then U.S. President George Bush. (Intriguingly, the word "assassin" comes from a Muslim sect active in the 11th to 13th centuries known as "the Assassins" for their religious practice of murdering infidels.)

In 1988, another passenger jet, Pan Am Flight 103, was bombed by Muslim extremists, killing 270 people.

In 1986, Muslim extremists bombed a West Berlin discotheque frequented by U.S. servicemen.

In 1985, Muslim extremists seized an Italian cruise ship, the Achille Lauro, and murdered Leon Klinghoffer, a 69-year-old, wheelchair-bound American.

In 1983, Muslim extremists blew up U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 American servicemen.

In 1982, Muslim extremists bombed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, killing 49 people, including 17 Americans.

In 1979, Muslim extremists stormed the U.S. Embassy in Iran and held American Embassy staff hostage for 444 days.
(above pasted from another article)

Edited to remove duplicate.

[This message has been edited by se94583 (edited 12-28-2001).]

I thought I was the only one who noticed that Hedoman and the San Ramon character keeps turning up like the dynamic duo in these threads of similar ilk.
Very, very interesting, but I am not going to spend my time engaging those types,its a total waste of time.
Mike