have you ignored being called for a search at gate?
 

i saw something interesting on my flight back from chicago last night. the NW agent at MDW didn't call the "random" customers by name, he only called them by seat number.

IE: "would 16D, 12B, and 5F please report to the podium"

i noticed that NOBODY got up and went for the rubber glove treatment. so the agent called the seats again, in the same way. one person went to the table.

i had gotten my EUA and boarded when FC was called. the elites had not been called, but 5F had pushed his way into line anyway, and was NOT the one who had gone for the secondary inspection. was standing right behind him, and it was easy to see his BP.

the agent pulling BPs was the same one who had made the announcements for the "random" passengers. not only did he not send the coach seat back while FC was boarding, he didn't recognize the seat as one called for the secondary inspection.

so my question is this: have you ignored being called at the gate? doesn't look to me like being called creates a flag of any kind...



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I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the rights of the people by the gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

James Madison, 4th US president (1751-1836)

Ah, another consistently inconsistent security-screening process which conveys to the world our degree of commitment to a unified and cohesive front against terrorism, crime, and simply bad behavior in the skies.

Some airlines seem to be printing some indication on the boarding pass that you've been selected - then the gate agt just has to look for the indicator, not a list of seat numbers.

Others (I've seen Delta do this) have the gate agt look you in the face and determine at the time of boarding if your are male traveling alone or non-native US - er - I mean if you are randomly selected.

But if there's no indication on the pass and they're just calling seat numbers, well, I, too, wondered if you could skip the process, but I'm probably too timid to test it.

Has anyone else noticed this?

In the weeks following 9/11 I was "randomly" picked for about 5 flights in a row... sometimes the checked baggage and then ANOTHER carry-on inspection at the gate... they also did the "swab test" where they rub a piece of felt all over your bags and then run it thru the analyzer...

since then, not a thing... I flew ~16k miles in Dec and was never selected... with one exception I am bascially flying on one carrier...

so, what do the gate agents do with those little printouts when they are done? do they throw them in the garbage? or did I "prove myself" and now I have some kind of "he's OK" tag in my profile???

okay, maybe this was a further call of people to be searched. NW does put an indicator on the BP. on the flights that i've been "pre-selected" my bording pass reads as follows:

s-duxfan/mr
COXX000000
platinum elite

if i haven't been "pre-selected" the "s-" isnt't there. this was a further call, apparently.

I flew out of ATL on CO Dec 31. I was selected to have my bags inspected at check-in and also was selected at the gate for the rubber glove treatment. Even though I was flying with my wife and baby!
When we arrived at the gate the agent looked at our BP's and said "Oh, I've been waiting for you". It seemed like he had a list of passengers that he was supposed to send for inspection. (I don't know if he had previously made an announcement asking that we present ourselves to the gate agent because we arrived at the gate pretty late, but I don't think he did.)

did it have a little disclaimer like:

** if this was a WorldPerks Elite number we could make this all go away http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

LOL.... maybe thats it. i thought i read on here that NW would not match status for CO Elites? 75% of my flying last year was on NW. Since CO seems to think of CLE as the RJ center of the universe, and has no service CLE-PDX, maybe i should jump ship?

[This message has been edited by duxfan (edited 01-04-2002).]

Completely off topic but
ETOPS=engines turn or passengers swim
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

In London they had a list at check in with seven or eight names on it, they took your boarding card, ran it down the list, then let you into the gate waiting area. If you were on the list, off to secondary screening.

I ignored it. Figured in theory I might have walked up five minutes after they made the announcement. BP did have the "S" on it. Walked right on the plane. No one is reconciling the list.

And as I posted in another thread, if I were the type to do something untoward, I'd bolt as soon as the BP popped out with the dreaded S.

I gotta tell you, I just got done with security at MSY and it was ridiculous. At BWI and IAD, I'm used to going through the metal detectors, hearing nothing go off, and then getting my carry ons and heading to the gate. No fuss, no muss.

At MSY, not only did they make me go through the detector, but they wanded me anyway. And then I got patted down top to bottom. After that, I had to open up my camera bag and my carryon because they saw the lens in the camera bag and thought it was something not allowed. They thought my electric shaver was a flashlight, too.

Know what else was ridiculous? There was an entire group of soldiers travelling on orders, with government tickets, military IDs, and they were in uniform. And they made these guys go through the same thing. One of the soldiers said he should have just ordered the guardsmen to allow them through since he was a captain or something.

He did get a salute from the guardsmen, though.

Can't ignore it on AA as the boarding pass scanner at the gate nails you every time.

They should follow the random inspection just as well. After all, how do you know if they are really military, right?

I don't know why they don't just offer FF miles for the extra gate-based search stuff.

Come on, who would roll their eyes or complain about some extra screening if they're getting 1000 miles for the inconvenience?

Bzzzt. Unless the Captain was paying them, they shouldn't have saluted indoors. A sure indicator that the "NG soldiers" were imposters and probably terrorists. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Rich

To be honest with you, I wasn't sure if it was a salute or a wave. I wasn't really paying attention, I was like, hey, get that wand away from there.

Actually I think you are wrong on the saluting. The NG soldiers are actually armed and in headgear. I seem to remember that in that case they would normally salute. The officer was probably not wearing his lid and would not have saluted someone superior to himself but would return the salute rendered to him. It is a sad indication of being out of service to long that I am blanking out on the rule. I would pull out my officers guide but is currently boxed up.

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Robert

I'm not that much of a Boy Scout but it seems kind of irresponsible to deliberately ignore something like this in times like these. Couldn't that delay others if those who are called do not come forward? Opinions? Comments?

Doakes

At AS, if you fail to respond when your name is called and make it on board anyway they will hunt you down! They come on board and have you bring all your belongings off the a/c to make sure "your papers are in order." If you move seats on board and still don't respond when called then off come your bags, never to be seen again and any return reservation, I assume, would be cancelled. Scary, huh?

At BHM NW has a good routine. If you're selected for an additional search (as my family was on Christmas) you are then the first people to board the aircraft. This has the benefit of enlisting the passengers in the process because there is an immediate benefit to being searched. I've seen NW follow this proceedure on the other occasions I've flown from BHM since Sep 11.

Haven't had this happen but i wouldn't ignore it.

My last flight of 2000 ORD-BWI. We board the plane and wait. A few minutes after scheduled push back a couple of security people come onboard and speak with the captain. The captain tells us they are clearing the security isues and we'll leave in about 5-10 mins. Five mins. later two different security people come onboard and speak with the captain. The captain tells us someone who was selected for secondary screening boarded without reporting for the secondary screen. Now everyone must get off the plane so we can re-do the boarding process. An hour later (first they had to go through the aircraft for security reasons) we start to board again. Most of us were not happy with the offending party whomever he/she was.

I assume this person said this with a smile on their face as this would be an obvious abuse of authority, and the Guardsman could ignore it as an unlawful order.

Isn't it service branch dependent? While the Navy does not salute indoors, I seem to remember seeing Army personnel salute (sans headgear) indoors, but this may have been in the movies. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif At any rate (slight pun intended) Navy personnel never wear headgear indoors.

Omni:
Don't you hate it when you see them mess up little military details in movies? My pet peeve is the proper way to wear a belt on a Navy uniform.

[This message has been edited by JeffS (edited 01-05-2002).]

Many of the NG folks are very young, have little training in 'civilities' and are bored out of their minds!

In Coast Guard we were told that 'one' did not salute in the house, in the church or in medical areas. Of course that was back when we were still using coal!

Well...not quite.

We always assumed that 'in the house' meant when we were guests in a superior officer's home (fat chance).

As for inappropriate wearing of head gear, makes me crazy.

A couple years ago (prior to the Millenium Dome project) I visited the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich England. Wishing to obtain whatever discounts I could get for a ticket to the museum and gift shop; I pulled out all my ID and membership cards in my wallet. BINGO!

Not only was I given a free ticket on the basis of my serive in the US Coast Guard, I met, greeted ('yes sirred' to pieces) and given a fabulous tour of the galleries. As an American who was wearing khakies and a polo shirt, I nearly died of embarrassment. I wished I was better dressed.

The British certainly do know how to respect men/persons of the sea!

Although the British have a strange way of saluting, think of a cross between a wave and a bird taking off, I appreciatted the gesture.

Everything in that Museum is done right, although the lighting is dim. Just make sure that you avoid the food!

I agree that many security measures are a joke. I've complained about them on flyertalk myself at times in the past few months. However, it does concern me when any of us share information that we've noticed that could help terrorists to avoid detection.

For example: Stating that on a certain airline there is a certain mark that always means you get searched. Terrorists read that, buy ticket, if marked, don't try to get on plane. If not marked, they know they're home free.

I'm not necessarily saying that this exact thing will lead to a problem in itself...but there are a number of things that I've noticed in the past few months.

I'm frustrated with it too....don't get me wrong. But I just don't want to be so specific in my frustrations that it helps people get by the system, as inadequate as the system seems at times.

Edited to Add:

I read somewhere a couple of weeks ago (can't remember if it was an OBL video or a computer hard drive or what) that there was evidence found in Afghanistan that showed Al Qaida stating that they had not been working on biological and chemical weapons....hadn't even thought of it...until they saw in the press how worried about it people in the west were and had it stated in the press how easy it could be to make these things. The statement in the press as to a potential threat turned it into a REAL threat.

[This message has been edited by aflyer (edited 01-05-2002).]

FWIW, in my branch of service, USAF Reserve, salutes are not rendered indoors. The exceptions are during change of command ceremonies and during the presentation of awards and decorations. If memory serves me well, a salute was rendered during a retirement ceremony; it was not returned, as the gentleman was seated as he received the U.S. Flag.

aflyer,

I agree, of course, that we shouldn't advise the terrorists how to bypass security, but the "secret" marks on boarding passes are hardly secret: The Wall Street Journal had a major article about them on November 12, page B1. If the terrorists don't know this by now, they aren't really terrorists!

Bruce

And in all honesty, if a terrorist looks at his or her boarding pass, sees they have been selected for screening, and doesn't get on the flight I'm, then I would feel the profiling has worked so much better then letting one of the security people select them for a secondary search. Remember, the shoe bomber was selected for additional questioning and sscreening, yet was still allowed to go.

Although I haven't ignored a call for a searcg, I actually volunteered the other day. Pax load was extremely light and I was boarding at an intermediate stop along w/ only 2 other pax.

Gate agent said that someone had to be screened, so I volunteered since I didn't have much stuff and already knew the drill.

USAir pulled the male traveling alone' search on me--4 times!

I don't have a problem ignoring such a call==never had the opporuting as USAir put an "S" on all of my tickets. My view is I am paying for a service that includes reliable security and the charades they have us go through are a waste of everyone's time and money.

The act of volunteering to be searched itself seems suspicious. Imagine a pair of terroists, one who is clean, ties up security by volunteering to be searched while the other with weapons or whatever goes by.

About saluting ....many many years ago as an enlisted man in the US Army, I recall not saluting while standing, cap off, in a roofed bus stop, hearing a newly minted officer pass by and comment to his companion, hey wasn't he supposed to salute us. I was prepared to say my not saluting was per protocol.

As explained to me, in the US armed forces, one does not salute without one's cap on. But you are not supposed to wear your cap while indoors.

Hence, no saluting indoors. The most you'd have to do is to come to attention when a superior officer comes by.

Last flight last year CO - IAH - LAX

Boarded with F/C pre-board then all boarding stopped, All passangers and flight crew had to leave plane with all carry-ons to stand in Jetway while plane was re-screened.

Explanation from Continental (friendly F/A who I regularly see in F/C) said that a randomly selected indivisual had boarded without being randomly searched.

I am male, fly alone, and often fly with just a small carry on since I have clothes at both ends. Never been randomly selected.



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"A Southwest line never gets longer, It only gets wider"

has anyone just volunteered for the random screenings?

i was thinking of doing that since i get picked a lot anyway, but on second thought, would that raise more scrutiny?

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f

It would certainly reduce the randomness!

andrew

On a recent DL flight from ATL-RDA, DL's gate agents went onboard and made three people get all their carry-on luggage, disembark the plane and go through a very thorough screening due to their ignoring "voluntarily" presenting themselves before boarding when their names were called.

I say ignoring calls to report for secondary screening should always result in you being denied boarding. It's the same thing as sneaking around the magnetometer and x-ray machine.

d

I was on 2 Delta flights recently where the
secondary screening was done right as the passengers were attempting to board the plane. Not only did it keep exactly who was about to be screened confidential until the point of boarding, but it also prevented the situation where somebody who is called for secondary screening ignores it and boards anyway, then causes the entire plane to be emptied and re-boarded. I think somebody finally realized how idiotic it was to announce in advance who was going to be screened. All the terrorists would have to do is travel in teams (each person with a separate reservation), then hand the prohibited articles off to one of their colleagues if their seat number was called
(or if traveling alone, just dump the contraband into a trash can and try, try again on another flight).

I agree completely. Hey, I don't like being patted down and wanded any more than anyone else does. But if I have to play by the rules, so does everyone else. And that means if your name is randomly selected, you better submit to the search. If you're not willing to play by the rules as they are written -- regardless of whether or not you think they are idiotic -- then don't fly.

And if you don't submit to the search, and then get pulled off the plane and delay me and make me miss my connections, then I sure hope they give you a full body cavity search on every single leg of your trip.

I'm not in the military, but my brother-in-law is in the Army. He said that when on sentry duty indoors, you salute. I guess that the NG MPs in airports can be considered to be on sentry duty.

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about saluting