Book a refundable ticket just to get through security?
 

Would you do this? (I'm contemplating it, but have not yet done it yet).

My mother is coming to visit, and she is elderly. She's very mobile, but she would prefer that I meet her at the gate. I know this sounds kind of stupid, but would you simply book a refundable ticket so that you could enter the secure area for this purpose?

Is this a punishable offense?

BooBooKitty - I doubt it's punishable... borderline unethical, perhaps. But, some CSRs are "promoting" it as a way to get through security. And I've heard of a few FTers pull this trick to get through. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



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"What do you mean you didn't get miles for that?!"

I was just thinking this the other day while standing in the security line at ATL. If someone really wanted to get through security without any intention of flying, they could do this. Kind of defeats the purpose of not allowing unticketed passengers through security.

Nothing to add of substance- just enjoyed your screen name.


Sincerely,

Silent Bob.

The other way to do it is to get a pass to help your mother but I guess that means she would have to be trundled out in a wheelchair.

I'd try for a pass before trying this. It will certainly work, but who knows what they are tracking now. I don't know about Atlanta, but in Newark you can not get to the gates with a ticket, you have to have it converted to a boarding pass or get a pass from an express agent (at least at United) to get to the gate. Paper tickets, e-tickets are not enough to get through security, you either stand in line and get a boarding pass or get some pass at the express line, so it may not even work if Atlanta is the same.

cordelli, I think you can still take a refund on the ticket even though you've already checked in and have a boarding pass.

Am I right?

Jeff http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

Buying a full fare first ticket will also get you into any lounge for free.

When they opened the Bradley terminal at LAX they only allowed ticketed passengers. I was an LAX nut and wanted to see the terminal. I bought a ticket to Korea (for about $2000), visited the terminal, then refunded the ticket and went home.

The simplest way to do this via Delta.com (if you have at least 25k miles) is to select a frequent flier award itinerary online (but not book it). It will show up in "My Itineraries" as a trip that has been bought and confirmed. This could then be printed and handed to security as an e-ticket. I've not done this, but it seems like it would be pretty easy. This seems like a pretty big loophole!

This should work, although I'd discourage anyone from doing it unless it was absolutely necessary.

Also, I've heard that some airlines can take quite a while to actually post refunds to your credit card account, sometimes 1-2 months. So, you might want to take that into account, if it is an issue for you.

d

Given the current environemnt, I would suggest purchasing a roundtrip ticket instead of a one-way fare.

Keeping unticketed passengers out of secure areas may not be so much for "security" as it is intended to lessen the burden on the the already overwhelmed security checkpoints. The lines are long enough. Who need looky-loos and do-gooders adding to the lines, when there are acceptable options.

In my experience in the past month, those who go through security without ANY carry-on luggage are examined, and questioned, thoroughly. Again, slowing things down.

May a lengthy PROBE be your fate......

I was going to do this at LAX when my parents came to visit also but I never got around to it. You are one person & not likely to clog up the security line & I don't think the "what if everyone did this" argument would apply. LAX can be an intimidating place for your elderly mother to navigate.Go for it.
I also like your screen name. Laverne & Shirley, right?

I did this during the Gulf War to get though security at DFW. I didn't have any problems, other than the credit taking awhile to post to my account.

So, my friends and I could theoretically book four $12,000 tickets on the Concorde, check in and get boarding passes, visit the Concorde lounge for a few hours of cavorting, then not board the plane and ask for a refund? Not that I would ever do that, but is it really plausible??

Dude chill. She's going to meet her elderly mother, not attending an airport FT party.

I would agree that you should buy a r/t ticket. Just buy a r/t ticket to SAN, PHX or LAS - something cheap.

What makes you think that BooBooKitty is a she?

And some people think snake in an "it"!

and I don't necessarily agree....

done. Cold, actually.

For what it's worth, I think it's cool that we all try to benefit from loopholes, etc. in mileage programs and the like. But, in this day, I feel it's just better if people don't try to circumvent the rules that have been put in place to make things safer and as efficient as possible. Not that they are safe nor efficient, just hopefully more so.

Remember, we're talking about a woman that is


[This message has been edited by clublounger (edited 11-08-2001).]

Clublounger;
OK, I give up. How is boobookitty's picking up his/her mother having ANY effect on anyone's safety? Puh-leeze

I just see this as wasting people's time and money. In order to do this, you will need to:

1. Call and make a reservation, costing the airline phone time and the reservationist's time or wait in line at the airport/CTO, again wasting an agent's time. Meanwhile, people who are actual customers will have to wait longer to speak to someone on the phone or get to the front of the line in person.

2. The airline will ticket you and charge your credit card money. The transaction is relatively insignificant on the credit card processing system. But, the airline is going to mail you a ticket and/or receipt if you buy it over the phone, or give you a ticket and receipt in person. This is a waste of paper. Again, maybe not a significant one, but a waste, nonetheless.

3. You'll have to go through security. Since you won't have any luggage, you might look suspicious and get a more detailed screening. This will delay the screening of real passengers, some of whom may have a plane to catch in a hurry. This delay may be a few seconds or a few minutes, depending on how many people you occupy and for how long.

4. After picking someone up/dropping someone off, you're then going to either call the airline or show up in person. Again, you'll be wasting more people's time and paper.

Phone calls to companies can cost anywhere from a few dollars per call to $20-25 per call. Mailing stuff costs around $0.50-$1. Agent's time in person is difficult to quantify and, like paper, is a relatively insiginficant cost.

Though adding up all of these costs still comes up with a relatively low total cost, you're still wasting time and money.

Perhaps if you can manage to purchase a cheap ticket, let's say $20, and not request a refund, then I'll be satisfied.

d

What is the big deal? First of all, it should be obvious that the rule requiring an airline ticket is not there to improve safety, it's there to ration security.

If airlines were truly interested in people not buying refundable tickets just to meet someone at the gate, then they would pay more money to increase the supply of screening so that security doesn't have to be rationed. That would benefit everyone, ticketed or not. Alas, that costs more than spending a few bucks refunding a ticket to someone who never had an intention of flying.

Regarding how much it costs the airline to refund a ticket -- so what? Do you decline the beverage or meal if there is one, to help them save money? Do you refuse to fly any plane other than a 757 to help them save fuel? They're a business, not a charity.

To sbrowner: how did you get out of the Bradley terminal without going through U.S. Customs, it doesn't look there is any other way out.

I tend to agree with Doppy and Clublounger on this one. Exploiting this loophole has a lot of less-than-desirable side effects. My first reaction when I read the initial post was that this simply adds unnecessary volume at the security checkpoint, on the phone, and in the checkin lines. Yes, I know one case is trivial, but it might not be to the person behind you in line, waiting for you to do something unnecessary and against the current desires of our country (misguided as the FAA can sometimes be...).

As for cost to the airline, I know we all hoard miles here, look for bonus opportunities, and are pretty good at finding cheap airfares when we need to. But that doesn't mean we don't want our airlines to be profitable. Doing something idiotic like this DOES cost them money. I don't buy the argument that because they jammed you once before for a change fee that you should jam them right back with fraudulent ticketing.

Finally, I'd react differently if this were a case of a disabled person or an elderly person unable to travel without assistance. In those cases, you can get a pass to go to the gate, plain and simple. But this isn't that case at all.

I'm not terribly concerned about the costs to the airlines, I was just noting them, as well as the delays that other real travelers may face. I am concerned about the general feeling among all people (not just FTers) that they need to get something for free from airlines every time they fly (or don't fly). I think AAFA put it well in an AA thread a couple months ago when she said something to the effect of "I don't go to a shoestore and buy a cheesy pair of shoes, then ask them to upgrade me to Gucci's for free."

Meanwhile, while it is great for some people to go with their friends/family to the gate, it's also a burden on people who are actually traveling. Like the two dozen people who need to see Grandma off before she takes a weekend trip to Florida, or the two dozen people who need to welcome Grandma home when she gets back from a weekend trip to Florida.

Obviously this many people would cause more of a slowdown in the security line than one person, but that's not the point. People in every other country and at some airports in the US have lived for years and years having to say goodbye at security. If you only have travelers go through security you speed up the operation and allow the screeners to pay more attention to a fewer number of people.

But, to ask airlines to pay for more security screeners so that non-travelers can enter the sterile area? That sounds ridiculous to me. If non-travelers really need to get through security, maybe they should lobby for a system to be imposed where a $5 or $10 fee to pay for the costs associated with the security screening can be collected for those who want to enter the sterile area, but don't have a legitimate reason to do so. But don't pass that cost along to me, an actual traveler.

d

Hmm... non-ticketed fee? OK, but $5 is way too much. Assuming five minutes of labor and $12 an hour, that's only $1. In reality, it costs much less than that. But, I would be happy to pay $1 to go through security to meet my mother at the gate. Heck, I'd pay $1 just to plane-spot! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't believe delaying the person behind you at security or the phone queue to get a refund is relevant. I could call every airline to get a fare quote instead of going to Expedia.com -- is that such a bad thing?

Even worse, I change planes instead of flying non-stop to get another segment and more miles. That means people behind me boarding on my connecting flight who are taking the first of a two flight trip are delayed, quite possibly causing them to mis-connect. I'm also using up a seat on not one, but two flights that may result in them being overbooked, causing someone who was trying to book a flight at the last minute to miss a funeral or a dying relative's last words.

See where this is going? It's one thing to be considerate, such as holding a door open or helping a blind person cross the street. But to abstain from going through the security checkpoint? That's insignificant IMHO.

This, generally speaking, is not true for domestic US flights on most airlines. The clubs are primarily membership clubs, not premium cabin clubs. Most airlines do offer this perk for trans-oceanic premium cabin passengers, and possibly for certain trans-continental flagship routes.

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking like a Devil's Advocate.

I would expect with the security at Airports today, that if you bought a ticket, checked in, and then cancelled the ticket, the airline would have to A) recheck to make sure that you were not on Board, B) Check to make absolutely sure that you did not check in any luggage. This could also entail the plane and Gate area being evacuated and the luggage being off-loaded. The end result could be a several hour delay for the other passengers on the flight.

I would suggest calling the airline to find out about getting a pass to the gate to meet Grandmother.

Hey, agree with everyone that buying a ticket and taking all this time and causing other delays is wrong.

BUT, if you need or want to be in the terminal, that is what you have to do. We have made some silly decisions that airport terminals are a national threat and put these rules into place. Until we realize we have over reacted and get back to sanity, this is the way it is.

And the waste by a small number of people of buying tickets is nothing compared to those that have to arrive 2-4 hours early for flights, miss flights, etc, etc. All with minimal increase in security. I think I saw that some 50-60 million people flew in October. Tell me the delays and hassles they went through, and for what?

In the airport in a locale in South Asia, I was told that no passenger is allowed to leave the terminal once allowed in, unless the flight is cancelled after entering. There have to be a lot of other exceptions, imaginably.

I have been thinking about this topic for a few weeks. For those who are familiar with me you know that I have a 5 year old son who loves to go to Newark Airport and spend the day plane spotting. We would ride the monorail, watch the planes, shop in the stores (toys, candy etc), eat lunch in the restaurants (esp. in Terminal C) and have snack in the CO Presdints Club.

We did this every other month or so and had a lot of fun. We always tried to combine this with another activity such as visiting the Statue of Liberty, going to my office to pick up something or see a client, or when I had to pick up grandma at the airport. We paid for parking, paid for meals and toys, tipped the bartender at the Pres Club and contributed to the airport's financial well being in a very positive way. In addition, by taking my son out I gave my wife a break so she could do other things. I have another son who is about to turn 2 next month and would probably start joining us soon on our airport runs. However, I have not gone to the airport since 9/11 but have thought about buying refundable tickets so we could visit but it is not worth the effort or hassle. I just feel bad for all the merchants who are losing lots of business because we can't get through security. And I feel bad my son can't plane watch because of the terrorists actions.

Which brings up an interesting idea. Wouldn't it be nice if the airport (or an airline for whom the airport is a hub) could sponsor "visits" like these? They can check you against any lists they have in advance. You can get a pass in advance so they will expect you to have no luggage. You'll be advised to leave anything metallic home. (You'll breeze through security.)

You can go to the airport and show that you still love planes. (I do. So do my son and daughter.)

I hear that airports are really suffering. Just like the efforts to visit NYC, this can be seen as patriotic.

Doppy -

if you use an AMEX card for your airline tickets, and for any reason get a refund, just call AMEX and tell them that you are "disputing the change pending a refund". AMEX will put a hold on that money, and not make you pay it. It also speeds up the process of getting your money back. Personally, I think they should have to refund the money within 24 hours, or the amount automatically goes up, just like res!

The purpose of the exercise is so that everyone has a ticket, and is therefore run through the computer and against the FBI "no-fly" list.

Even if you don't fly on the ticket, you're in the computer, which is what they want.

Assuming you buy an e-ticket, it's much easier to process the refund at home by phone than at the airport before the flight leaves.

Besides, people no-show on flights all the time. Airlines don't evacuate the plane and cargo hold because of no-shows.

I too would like to meet my rather fragile mother at the gate in DFW in a few weeks when she comes to visit me.
I read that there is an official way to be allowed in to meet a passenger (presumably with a good reason). Will comb the AA and Delta sites to see if there is anyhting offical on the topic.
My guess is that parents are somehow allowed in to pick up unaccompanied minors?

amazing nj, I enjoyed your post. Have you contacted CO or EWR officials to suggest this? I think this is a great idea, especially for school age kids who may have been (or still are) very frightened by what happened on September 11. People may say "yeah, right, that's all we need right now is a bunch of non passenger kids adding to the mess at the airports, etc etc".

Well, OK. But I still think this is a great thing to do with your kids or your students in cooperation with airport officials and perhaps the airlines. I would have loved a field trip to the airport as a little kid. It's never too early to learn about travel, security, airplanes, and all sorts of interesting stuff (including MILES!).

Get the airlines to do some clever marketing here to sponsor these sorts of visits - if they can't get the adults to fly again, maybe interested kids can. Good luck with this, amazing nj. I know your sons will appreciate this now and especially when they're older.

Back on topic: BooBooKitty, what airline is your mother flying? Why can't you ask the airline if they can facilitate you? Or the airport? Have you tried calling? Has anyone called about this? It seems like this would be the most straightforward way to get information on the topic before buying a ticket that won't be used and then hassling about the refund.

[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 11-11-2001).]

I have been contemplating this same idea for when my wife's parents come to visit us at Christmas. They are both in their 80's and very frail. I have been waiting for the airlines and the FAA to make a reasonable accommodation for this situation. Would certainly be willing to pay a $10 fee and have my identity checked to do it.

Interview with Ron Wilson, spokesman for SFO, on KCBS radio this morning. He said that airport revenues were expected to be down $100 million for the year ending 6/30/02. Also that concessions were down 40% compared to this time last year.

Seems to me that we've created a downward spiral for airport revenues by closing the concourses to visitors. Less parking revenue from meeters and greeters and less concession revenues mean less to spend on security improvments. Also an employee who could be screening bags or helping customers is stuck at the front of the line checking boarding passes.

The new International Terminal at SFO was designed for visitor access with many shops and restaurants located in the concourse area. Many were on thin ice before, I can't see them hanging on for much longer with many potential customers on the worng side of the checkpoint.

If we screen everyone, why restrict access?