What am I missing?
 

I've never done the frequent flyer thing before and I'm trying to figure it all out. I have a goal to get my family (me, husband and 3 kids) to Europe next summer (2007). It seems a bit daunting but other people have said they've done it . . . So I'm starting now. I've read the credit card sticky post. We don't fly very much at all (MAYBE one flight a year) so we're going to have to get all our points from credit cards (or at least as many as we can get).

I think I have decided to get the AA credit card for our small business - in my husband's name (I like the fact that he gets all the miles from the employees spending), I will get the AA credit card so I can get the bonus sign-up and then I think I will get the Starwood because everyone has said such wonderful things about it.

My first question is there something I'm missing? Where can I get more miles?

I don't really understand the whole partner thing with the airlines - American Airlines is partnered with certain airlines - when it's time to turn in the miles I can fly an any one of those airlines. Also, if I purchase a flight on these other airlines I can give them my AA frequent flyer number and get credit for the miles - correct?

I would love any advice or links to other posts that discuss things that would be of value to me. I just found this website today and I'm very excited - thanks!!

There are lots of ways to get miles. If AA is the airline you choose to go with, check out the AAdvantage section of AA.com, which lists most of the main ways to earn miles.
But, I should point out that getting award tickets to Europe during the summer is VERY difficult. As you point out, AA miles can be redeemed/earned on partner airlines (i.e. British Airways to Europe). And getting 5 award tickets on the same flight may prove to be a real challenge.

Welcome to FlyerTalk.

You will probably receive better advice if you flesh out some of the details of your trip. What city will you fly from, and what is your destination in Europe? What ages are the children? Do you intend to fly in economy class, or is your ambition to fly in business class?

There are two primary reasons that people say "wonderful things" about the Starwood Preferred Guest Credit Card. First, the points can be converted to miles on many airlines, but this isn't as important if you are collecting miles for one trip and know the carrier you will use. Second, Starwood awards a 5,000 mile bonus for every 20,000 points transferred to an airline program. This means $20,000 in credit card charges could generate 25,000 miles. You need to estimate how much you will use the card prior to your trip, and how to allocate spending between the Starwood card and the AAdvantage card. If you do not earn at least 20,000 Starpoints you will not realize much benefit compared to using only the AAdvantage card.

You mentioned that you have a small business. Bear in mind that you could apply for an AAdvantage business card to use there, but you and your husband could also apply for separate personal AAdvantage cards to earn additional enrollment bonuses - but also pay additional annual fees, and have additional inquiries on your credit reports.

You also mentioned that you fly infrequently. Do you take driving trips, or train trips, and stay at hotels or motels?

dennis

Dave is correct - summer availability to Europe can be a problem, especially if you don't have flexibility on dates and destinations. Coach availability will be better than Business or First Class. Availability will be greatest as soon as booking opens, at 330 days before the first flight. This means that you will want to have the miles in your account this summer, so that you can lock these tickets down. If there are 5 of you, that means that you need to receive 300,000 miles between now and summer for 5 coach tickets.

OOPS - there is a limit on the number of miles you can get per year on most credit cards, and the Citibank AAdvantage is one of those (I think it's 60,000 miles per year, but you better check it, it's never been a problem for me). I believe that the limit is waived for elites, so if this is going to be a problem (and it will become one pretty quick if you are pumping 60,000 miles/month through your card), whoever has the account these miles are going into better be elite either now or pretty fast.

I'll let others discuss the best ways to get around the total miles per year limit, I have read a few of those discussions but I wasn't paying much attention as it was strictly theoretical.

You can make these programs work for you, but they all have their rules, and you really need to know the rules to know when you need a strategy to work around them.

Welcome to Flyertalk.

<<AA miles can be redeemed/earned on partner airlines (i.e. British Airways to Europe)>>

Unfortunately this is one thing that is generally not permitted. American and British Airways are both members of the OneWorld alliance, but they are competitors on transatlantic routes and there is no reciprocal mileage earning or redemption on flights between the USA and the UK. (It is permitted on flight between Canada and the UK.)

dennis

Okay - Now I'm depressed :( . You're right, though. I never thought about flying to Europe in peak season. Hmmm . . . We will be (or should I say, would have been) flying out of Charlotte or Raleigh and going to ?? Not sure yet - perhaps Italy.

We don't do tons of traveling - little road trips here and there. I am definitely going to be staying at hotels that we can get points for.

What airline program doesn't have a yearly max? Is there somewhere that has all that info at a glance?

I appreciate everyone's quick responses - thanks!

I forgot to put - my kids will be 6, 9 and 12. We would be flying economy. We just want to find a cheap way over there and spend a couple weeks. It looks like I'm being too optimistic in my plans. :)

Unless you have very high credit-card spending, you may be out of luck. The miles benefits are mainly for frequent fliers and frequent stayers at hotel, since you do not fit this profile, your best option would be the credit card route. 5 tickets to Europe should be somewhere around 350-400k points (and availability might be an issue), you can probably get 60k by credit card sign-up bonuses, but you still have to earn another 300k points. I would think it would be easier for you to save up $3500 or so to pay for the airfare.

Something else to note is that the farther ahead you try to get reward tickets the better. You would be better trying to get a reward as early as this fall, but that would shorten the amount of time you have to collect miles.

A more realistic goal might be to wait until 2008 or perhaps only try to get maybe three airline tickets and pay for the other two. Just some ideas.

is the mileage cap for non elites 60,000 or 100,000 on the Citi AA MC? i thought it increased to 100k.

60,000 for Gold CC, 100,000 for Plat CC, 150,000 for Business CC. OP didn't say which one they have.
I don't know whether the Citibank AAmex card has caps, and if it does, is it independent of the Mastercard. OP might want to check that out.
Seems like you could get around the max by having multiple cards, like maybe Citibank Business Mastercard, Citibank AAmex, and *wood Amex.

The other solution to this problem, of course, is a challenge.

One word of warning about giving your personal credit card number to employees to charge on. Employees leave your company, and some leave under less than friendly terms. You can get stuck for the charges by a disgruntled employee.

It looks like we will just try saving. We have a Chase card that gives you 1% back on regular purchases and 5% on groceries, gas and drug stores.

I'm going to go ahead and have my husband get a business card for frequent flyer miles. We wouldn't be giving out cards to just any employees - there are two that already have them - so it wouldn't be anything new. That way we can still be earning miles for future use - perhaps not for this trip but another one.

Thanks for all your input.

If you want to go down the AA route then have a look at this website.

http://www.mileagemaximizer.com/

I suggest you first take a look at the How to Begin page of my website below. Then, if you decide to collect American Airlines miles, look at each page of the website for deals for that airline. First click on the page (important), then do a word search on "American A". Particularly good offers can be found in the Finance and Other Programs I Like sections.

Another thing you might want to consider is sucking it up and buying the airline tickets on whoever is cheapest. Instead of trying to collect 300-400,000 miles in a short time try and get enough hotel points to stay for free. Hotels in Europe can be very, very expensive and you will probably need two rooms because of the three kids and their ages. You could find that the hotels will cost 300-400 A NIGHT!

Get the Hilton AMX and with your personal and business spending you could rack up enough points for probably 2 rooms for two weeks free. That's a lot of savings especially if you go to expensive cities.

Just another option. I wouldn't want you to try for miles only to be surprised when the hotels cost as much as the airline tickets.

Or you could hedge your bets and get a SPG AMEX card. If you decide to boost your miles then you can convert 20000 points into 25000 miles.

They also have no black out dates on hotel stays on awards.

A more descriptive thread title? (just kidding) :D :D :D

Welcome to FT, kimah.

If you haven't already found it, try reading this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270587

I just took my family of six to Europe last summer and I planned at least 8 months in advance. There is so much info on the web it takes a while to sort through it. Don't hesitate to contact residents in the cities you wish to travel to and ask them questions about good deals on hotels, restaurants, etc... These can be B&B owners, car service employees, hotel concierge, etc... Most people were quite happy to pass along advice.

It got your attention, didn't it? ;)

I actually thought about going the hotel route today. What is the SPG card? Is that the Starwood? Does it have a lot of hotels in Europe?

jbg44: Do you have any good websites you'd recommend? You're right about there being so much info out there - I'm a bit overwhelmed right now just trying to figure out what would be the best plan of action for us with the credit cards - I haven't even gotten to the actual trip planning. I preferably would rather not stay in hotels - I would rather do a homeswap or rent an apartment for a week or two - but then again, if we could get enough points to pay for all our hotels - I would stay in hotels.

Okay - this is too funny to not post -I just got the mail and in it was a letter from Delta Skymiles telling me that I have almost 20,000 miles and if I open a credit card with them I can get up to 27,500 more miles - funny, huh?! I had no idea I even had an account with them - very sad. My husband said he got something from them the other day too.

How do I find out my frequent flyer number and how long these miles are good for? Any ideas?? Thanks!

Scan the credit card offer letter very carefully. Usually the associated frequent flyer number is imprinted on there somewhere. If not, call Delta up and ask them. Miles dumped into your account are generally good indefinitely as long as you show some account activity every so often (one year to three years).

You need to strategize in one particular program or alliance, though. If you end up with 100,000 points/miles each in AA, DL and HHonors, it doesn't really do you any good even though you have a mess of total points.

I would gently point out that if it were usually feasible within 12 to 15 months to accumulate and redeem enough FF points to fly five people to Europe free at the height of the summer rush, everybody'd be doing it.

Unless you are a serious (100k+) frequent flyer, the kind of trip you're talking about takes years to plan and execute. Note that people start angling for the few seats available 331 days before the departure date -- which means that June 2007 seats start getting snapped up in July 2006, or just five months from now. And actually snagging five award seats on any transatlantic flight in summer would be a sort of religious miracle.

Given your accumulation rate and flying habits I would recommend:

** Deferring the trip until 2010 or so, or

** Trying for just one or two award seats out of five, or

** Forgetting about frequent-flyer awards and concentrating on hotel points instead; you could probably earn enough Starwood or HHonors points in a year to score some free lodging in Italy, and hotels in Europe in summer are pretty expensive.

Good luck!

Kimah, one web site I would recommend, for lots of travel ideas, is www.ricksteves.com
They have reader forums with lots of good ideas.
Have fun!
Kate

<<snagging five award seats on any transatlantic flight in summer would be a sort of religious miracle.>>

I tried a dummy award booking on aa.com for five passengers, RDU-LON on June 4 2006, returning June 18, 2006. The outbound flight was a connection through JFK, but the return was the LGW-RDU nonstop.

Total Miles Used: 300000 Total Price 349.00 USD

djl

There is an idea that has hardly been touched upon - a more realistic flight plan would be to go for a pair of business class or coach (whatever you prefer) award seats for you and your hubby and buy the kid's seats. It's beating a dead horse in this thread to say you'll have little to no luck getting five award seats on the same flight, but it's just plain true. A couple of awards is quite easy, though, if you pay attention. I was able to get two award seats to Hawaii in under a year of accruing miles and I don't fly too often and had no cc affiliation. It can be done.

From what you have all said I have pretty much given up on the idea of getting 5 award tickets next summer. Our plans are very flexible. We want to go - we're not set in stone when though. Would I like to go in the summer? Yes - but I am also willing to go with the flow. If it works out that we can earn 1, 2, or if we're lucky, 3 tickets and we have to buy the rest then I'll be happy. If we can use them next summer, great! If not, we'll use them some other time. I really appreciate all the great advice I've gotten here. This is such a great site. Thanks!!!

tkey75: What did you mean when you said: "A couple of awards is quite easy, though, if you pay attention. I was able to get two award seats to Hawaii in under a year of accruing miles and I don't fly too often and had no cc affiliation. It can be done." Perhaps this is a silly question - but how do you pay attention? Where am I supposed to be looking? Once I have the points do I just constantly check for what is available?

I am posting something in the Delta forum regarding the letter I received earlier today saying I had 19,821 miles. I am so angry I'm shaking!!! Anyways, if you feel the need . . . go on over there and read it.

I was able to get four Virgin Atlantic award seats (Upper Class) for my family this coming summer (SFO-LHR), so it is possible to get more than just a couple of seats. That required some schedule flexibility, however.

Just wondering: are any airlines known to be better than others for multiple award seats?

As mentioned in message #23, I was able to find five economy seats from Raleigh to London on American for weekends in June 2006 after trying only a few dates. Looking in ExpertFlyer I see that I could have booked seven award tickets, and there is similar availability on other dates. I have never had trouble finding Business or First class award seats on AA to London, but typically a connection is required from Miami. I expect AA availability to other European cities is more difficult because they have fewer flights.

dennis

"Perhaps this is a silly question - but how do you pay attention? Where am I supposed to be looking? Once I have the points do I just constantly check for what is available"

I read the Milesbuzz forum and the Delta Skymiles forum every day and participated in every single miles promotion I was eligible to participate in. 10 miles here and 100 miles there and 10,000 miles over there (thank you Dash to the Gate) really adds up over time. For my two skysaver awards (70,000 miles) I just barely had the miles but I think I earned less than 20k of those the hard, expensive way. I should also note that I was also doing everythig I did for my SM acct. for my SO's acct. If I read right you are in the same position/situation with two accts. accruing miles.

Surely I realize you'd need 30k more than what I had for a couple of award seats to Europe, but especially with the credit cards it can be done. Just be vigilant and don't think any amount of free (or mostly free) miles is too little to make a difference!

edited to add - Also, get comfortable with the idea of setting your alarm for 11:50pm to be on the phone with the awards dest 330 days before your desires fly date. This is key. It makes finding award availability so much easier.

Okay - You guys are giving me hope again. I am just going to do my best and whatever free tickets we can get will be great.

I don't know if you have read my post in the Delta forum but I've been trying to find some lost miles - I just found them - after a horribly negative experience - I found two lost Skymiles accounts from about 15 years ago. Both of them combined have over 30,000 miles in them! I'm so excited. I was a dumb college student back then and really had no idea the miles could add up - thank you travel agents! (who I assume signed me up in the frequent flyer program)

I just got an offer from American Express where I can get up to 27,500 miles - so I will have one free ticket . . . now just to get my husband signed up with the business.

>> I'm so excited.

Careful, this can be highly addictive! :D


>>>... and really had no idea the miles could add up

Oh, yeah do they ever!

>>...thank you travel agents

we do not seem to like these people around here.

To get started study Gary's website carefully:

http://www.freefrequentflyermiles.com/index.htm

Enjoy this "hobby"

<<I will have one free ticket>>

25,000 Skymiles is sufficient for one Delta economy class ticket within the continental United States. An award flight to Europe would require 50,000 Skymiles. Note that these are the amounts required for "SkySaver" awards which are limited availability, a "SkyChoice" award doubles the mileage requirement.

It seems a good idea to apply for the Delta credit card now to liberate your old miles, but you should compare frequent flyer programs before deciding whether to accumulate Delta miles ongoing. Only then should you decide which credit card to use. If you choose Delta's own credit card the miles are automatically deposited in your Skymiles account which is convenient, but also limiting because Delta does not permit transfers to other programs. There are several other credit card programs that earn points which can be converted to Delta miles when you are ready to redeem a flight. This gives you the possibility of transferring to another airline if award availability is better, and protects you during Delta's bankruptcy.

In short, I wouldn't feel married to Delta just because I discovered a cache of miles. I would do whatever is necessary to use those, but I would separately evaluate whether Delta is the best for my travel plans.

dennis

Let me echo Dennis' point. I search fror DL awards regularly and rarely find domestic seats for the dates/routes I want at the 25,000 mile level; most often they want 50,000 miles per seat domestically per the terms of SkyChoice. A SkyChoice economy seat to Europe is 100,000 miles. Five of them... well, do the math.

Don't spread your efforts among multiple programs. Judging from testimony on this board, AA and UA definitely offer better award availability than DL, NW and especially CO. If you can scrape together enough miles for one or two Europe tickets on AA or UA in time to snap them up for summer 2007, I'd say go for that.

Just a Note-
This site is fantastic! I have learned sooo much. My family only travels for pleasure also and I have been using numerous cr. cards over the years to accumulate pts. for flights and hotels. I am in the process of discontinuing cards. HH - I have used for wonderful stays at hilton properties (AE card) and Starwood AE (need less pts for a night). Have accumulated points on AA for 2 Europe flights Will use these in 2007, maybe. For flying (just a suggestion made to me) always, if possible, book 'vacation' travel Sat. thru Sat. Then on Sat. when the planes are overbooked after a school vacation- volunteer your 'family' for a 'bump'. Our family of 4 has been bumped twice in the past year and then we have 8 vouchers to use within a year for our next trip. (Takes a bit of planning but it works!) Using 4 vouchers & HH points we are doing this for a week stay in London in July. Free flights (not 1st or Business though) and 4 free nights at the Waldorf H. (gold - hope to get upgrade) and 1 free at Kensington Marriott + 1 nt. paid (was able to upgrade with gold to Lounge use.) We charge absolutely EVERYTHING (even charge on our cards when we go out with relatives - then they write me a check! They know I am a 'points collector" but hey, keep 'em coming!!!!!) Having 4 left, am sending hubby and daughter to Florida for a week, getting hotels
free using Starwood pts. and still have vouchers $$ left over and 2 vouchers left for son and myself. Where shall we go?????????????? :)

Here is what I was thinking so far - from what I've heard, people like the AA credit card a lot around here - I was seriously looking into that one when Delta sent me the letter saying I had "lost" miles - since I found 30,000 miles with Delta and with what they're offering me if I get their AE card I will have close to 60,000 miles. I am considering getting the Delta card for our business because I think we might be able to earn at least one other free ticket within the next year. I don't see the point in trying to rack up AA miles right now since we're so far long with Delta - is this type of thinking wrong? - now watch, Delta will go bankrupt and we'll lose everything :).

For personal use - I am looking at the Starwood card to charge things (I don't really plan on using the Delta one - just getting it to get almost 30,000 free miles) - Starwood seems like they take so much fewer points to get a free night than the other hotels - Hilton, Marriott - why is this? Is it harder to earn points with them?

What do you think??

Both the Delta Amex and the Starwood Amex are Amex. You should have a Visa or Mastercard for those places that don't take Amex.

The Hilton Amex earns 3 points for every Dollar spent; the Starwood Amex earns 1 point per Dollar. But point redemption is roughly 3 times more "expensive" at Hilton. A category one Hilton is 10,000 HHonors points per night. A category one Starwood is 3000 Starpoints per night (and 2000 on weekends). Category Four is similar: 30,000 points at Hilton vs. 10,000 Starwood points. The main difference is that Starwood hotels are generally nicer (a category four Starwood is usually better than a category four Hilton) and Starwood doesn't have blackouts or capacity controls--if they have a free room, it's yours. The main downside is that Starwood has a more limited range of properties than Hilton. However, if Italy is your goal, that's Starwood's strongest country in Europe and their properties there are really nice. Hilton's strongest country in Europe is the United Kingdom.

Seems like everyone has a "story" to tell on how earning points works well for them. I don't consider myself that knowledgeable...in fact, if I read more on this board, I'd probably find even better ways to earn than how we earn now...but here's what we do:

We have a Quicken Platinum Visa which earns us "Traveler Miles". Basically, it earns us one point per dollar spent but what I like about it, is, it earns us a RT ticket anywhere in the Continental U.S. with 25,000, or $100 off an airfare with 8,000 points. So, you can choose how it works best for you. There are also lots of other offers for using your points with this card. My husband and I both charge pretty much everything to this card, pay it off and it gets us a good amount of free tickets for our family of four, for our planned vacations. I just used our points to purchase 3 RT tickets to Seattle for a planned August Alaskan cruise. The 4th ticket, I got with my leftover NWA WP miles that I had before cancelling that card. I cancelled that because I just don't find it worth our while once you get hit by the Rulebusters.

I also just signed up for a Marriott Visa because I stay at a Marriott for work-related events since it's right in our building and can earn points easily. I also really like Marriotts so I thought we could utilize points earned for vacation stays at Marriotts.

Like I said, mine is only a minor "success story", but so far, it has worked well for us! Thanks to all on this site for "educating" me even more!

Deb

Does this mean that I cannot use my AA miles to book a reward ticket on BA to LHR?

The only way that I know of to use AA miles to book a reward ticket on BA to LHR is to book it as a OneWorld award, and book through Canada. For instance, book AA from U.S.-Canada, BA Canada-LHR, and another OneWorld partner (Finnair, Iberia, or EI) somewhere in the trip.