How Will Security View Mileage Runs Now?
 

From previous threads, I have noticed that many of us will continue to fly and some think travel might even be safer with tighter security. My question is how do you think mileage runners will be viewed when travel resumes? Will we go through more security questions, have our itineraries altered or possibly even be denied boarding?

Airline agents already give you an odd look when you make 3 or 4 segments in one day rather than fly driect or with 1 stop, but what abou security when you fly in and don't leave London airport on the same day for example?

I have been taken aside and asked questions about why I had no carryon and had spent less than 24 hours in Paris once which is why I am wondering. I know we come across as suspicious but we are only flying for enjoyment.

Or what about other issues such as, will we be able to accompany or meet flyers at the gate or have them meet us? Will we be able to go from one terminal to another to go up to the lounge or will be required to only access the terminal of our flights?

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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

Security will be HUGE for the first few weeks/months while the memory is fresh.

Logan at Boston just announced for instance that effective immediately, ALL KERBSIDE BAGGAGE CHECK-IN is now banned. All vehicles within 300 feet will be removed. Right now 9,000 vehicles are parked within that radius each day.

Uniformed state police will be at all security scanner. Dogs, bomb scanning teams etc. Each and every aircraft will get searched BEFORE passengers board. No estimate as to when all this can be achieved.

I remember when you had to have a ticket for a flight 'soon to leave' to get past security (out of the main terminal) -- unless seeing off a child or handicapped person. I believe that will be reinstated.

It's the risk you take when you do something many people deem as abnormal- flying with unusual itineraries. Don't be surprised if you get more questions.

Unfortunately, NONE of the security measures to be adopted would have stopped Tuesday's attacks. The only two things that might have stopped them would be:

1. racial profiling (unlikely in this PC world but effective)-- no carryons and strip searches for all people with Semitic names and/or travelling with foreign ID from a middle eastern country; and

2. elimination of all carryons for everyone(unlikely b/c complaints, but I could adapt)-- but I have often thought about it: I could easily hide a weapon in an empty drive bay of my laptop or carry a knife hidden in a customized extra battery, etc. If they eliminated carryons, they could also designate a special lockable closet where all fragileitems that can't be checked could go to until landing; don't like it, take the bus or train.

I understand that RyanAir in the UK is now not accepting carry ons.

I know this has been discussed in other threads, but what is this going to do to enhance security? This is something FAA is doing because FAA has to do something. Makes us all feel good, because "we are now beefing up security". Hah!

This may actually help a little, especially if the State Police would actually operate the scanners.

Based on what I've read about the hijackers, none of the traditional security searches would have detected the "weapons" they used.

The rumored additional security measures would also not help. It is a simple matter to smuggle small but dangerously effective objects through the scanners. Based on these attacks, response measures will need to be changed greatly to deal with these types of incidents.

There's talk about possibly bringing back the Skymarshals.

Whaddya'll think?

Sounds good to me. That seems like it'll have a much better effect than banning curbside check-in. Having somebody onboard who was armed yesterday might have been able to thwart the plan at a number of critical points.

JD

JD

Milage runners will probably get the questioning look, but then again, most of us are buying restricted-advance purchase fares with multiple segments, purchased online- via credit card, waay out of the terrorist demographice. Also, we are relatively affluent, travelling in comfort, with gobs of ID (don't we all carry our many Silver, Gold, Platinum tiered milage cards with us? for all the airlines we belong to?). I am sure we will get more glances, but with no checked bag and little to search physically but a great willingness to be "search" information/identification wise (we all know the look we get, as soon as we dive into the whole "Milage Run this and that", "Status Miles", and "I got a great fare," blah blah blah!) Those with the power to deny boarding will un-profile an FTer right quick.

A problem I see with all these new rules is they won't help really anything, with the insignificance of the weapons being dealt with, the plastic boxcutter, searches will have to be extremely (most likely overly) exhaustive to be effective. The level and number of misunderstandings/false positives will be high. Will we honestly be able to separate those who have evil intent from those who packed a small paring knife with some fruit in a lunch bag (Now remember before you answer: Those 2 hr flights with no service, we will now have to be 3 hours early for that flight with no meal, meaning at least 5 hours between meals for every segment!) The biggest issue I have going through security is getting ripped off by other passengers or pseudo-passengers, I don't mind a one-minute or more check through my bag, if I and my stuff wasn't, A: On display and exposed to the whole world. and B: I was given the time and care to repack my bag before the security checker runs off to grab the next one.

The true security comes from clearance and security checking of the PERSON, not the belongings. (Kudos to El Al, keep in mind, even with Air Marshals, no Air Marshal has even had to reveal him/herself and use a weapon, everything is questioned-profiled-stopped in ticketing or at check-in or in additional questioning in the airport.) I would rather see multiple checks of persons, passports or second ID for citizen/resident aliens required even for domestic flying, along with some intelligence supplied to the information systems the airlines already have.

This is doable, and also provide customer differentiation to the ones who need it most, the frequent traveller. I should be able to bring to the airport an affidavit with all my info and answered questions, to be signed in the prsence of witnessed by the ticket or gate agent with signature confirmed, stating the appropriate answers to all the presently standard questions (Yes, Yes, No), along with my personal and emergency contact information (like we do now on outgoing international flights).

Not to presume too much, but I would say that a regular traveller or FTer with status and same method purchase of a ticket, smae address in the computer, with similar flight habits over a period of years could be pre-cleared from some of the extreme questioning, but those first-time travelers on an airline, or cash purchasers, or walk-up fares, should be scrutinized at the ticket counter, and the security checkpoint, and as in many european airports before getting near the gate, and then again on boarding.

Yes it is easy to quantify good and bad belongings, but it is the people that are at issue. If the airlines do not begin to profile the actual persons for each flight, and yes a bit of an extension of the idea of a groups of lightly "armed" thugs seizing control. Suppose they were completely unarmed, carrying nothing, but instead of 3-5 on four planes, they just bought all 20 tickets on one plane, I shudder to think that 20 unarmed 25-40 year old male fanatics could probably seize control of a plane with out any weapons. Ugh, I gotta stop thinking about all of this... I'm just an unix consultant, really!

Wouldn't a "preferred security check" be the true perk (and ONLY for status fliers, not even for first-class!) if the airline do control it, they should provide it!

[This message has been edited by unixguy (edited 09-12-2001).]

Maybe I am too young to remember skymarshalls. However, we will probably see armed guards in and around airports. I don't like the idea because it makes us feel like prisoners when we are the victims of the attack. Also the costs will most likely be passed on in form of fares or taxes somehow. Airlines will likely use this time to cut routes and merge passengers from different flights to a specific flight.

In regards to security measures mentioned above, everybody seems to be sold on the idea that the weapons passed through underpaid and possibly poorly trained security scanners. What about the compromise of ground staff or airport personnel such as airline cleaning crew or baggage handlers? They could have loaded the plane with enough arsenal.

Also, I believe the bigger security measures is more for peace of mind of travelers and to show that the government and FAA is phsyically doing something. To quote a French proverb- "why buy a lock for the barn when the horse has already been stolen?"

In the end, it doesn't matter how many locks you have on the front door if you leave the window open.



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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

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And now we may well have the same sort of thing here in the states.

Reportedly women may be permitted to carry only wallets and not even pocketbooks
onboard.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../002933-6.html

No carry-ons except for purses.
Arrive 3 hours in advance

Those 2 alone could drive mileage runners out. It might be more worthwhile to train or drive routes like BOS-LGA, SJC-LAX, IAH-DFW

There's no current ability to get skymarshals on board. You'd need thousands of them, and there are currently none in employment or trained.

What makes you believe that some of the terrorists wouldn't be frequent travellers? They might have taken many flights just to see how the pilots and FAs react to different situations.. For all you know, those terrorists on the planes could have been 1K's or EXP.... I think all frequent travellers or mileage runners should be questioned and go through the same security measures that they will put up in the future, just like the non-frequent flyer...