Sometimes a package (airfare + hotel) booked on expedia, orbitz or travelocity is too good a bargain to pass up; you still get airmiles, but generally the hotel is "generic" no miles toward hotel programs.
If you fly to Las Vegas (or other gambling locations) regularly, even "low-rollers" will get their rooms free; so you are getting airmiles but no hotel points.
I did join the "Priority Club (Intercontinental)" only because of an air miles promo. I would have to stay too many times at higher cost than I would usually pay to warrant continuing with them for another year (not to mention the added fee for renewal.) [I know free upgrades and other bonus promos are nice; but I can "live" without them :) ]

Let me know how a low roller like myself can get that free room. So far Westin, Alladin, Mandalay Bay, Mirage are offer $20-40 off a $150-200 room so this low roller

Ken in Phx

Maybe the topic shouldn't be so harsh...clueless is such a demeaning term. I just think there are different degrees of travel savviness. Those of us that enjoy "gaming the system" are truly the most savvy. Knowing how to use BTF to beat PL and using the 5% cash back cards from Citi and Chase (my wife and I have 3 of these cards) are all examples of our savviness, but to what degree is one savvy? Copping a free stay at the Paris Hilton, been there, done that, I think is truly a feat of savviness, and those of us here at FT can appreciate it, but I was able to score another 30,000 HH points from my free Paris Hilton stay. Does that mean the rest of you are clueless?

99% of my coworkers, friends and relatives could care less about my travel exploits. To even discuss it with a non-traveler can make one sound like a pretentious snob unless we run across the individual like ourselves, who may have been searching for something like FT, so I now limit my discussions to FT forums or maybe my seatmate in flight. My wife is tired of hearing it. We all know people that don't use ff #s or hotel loyalty programs, the right credit cards or cash in for the right rewards, even among FT regulars. We should not try to educate them. If everyone were all equally knowledgeable, the loyalty programs and credit cards would cut back their benefits, because we are currently the minority and these programs exist only because other less knowledgeable folks (the ignorant masses?) out there who subsidize our ability to game the system. At the extreme end of gaming the system, one may have to think whether one's time could be put to better use (e.g. SPAM, mileage runs) or if there is an ethical issue in doing some of the things we do. I use FT to judge where I may cross the ethical line. As an example, I just used hotel points to get a new pair of Bose Quiet Comfort II headphones from the hotel points catalog. At this point you might think I'm clueless for wasting my hotel points this way. However, the points came from two hotel stays (total 7 days) with a total outlay of $240, paid by my employer. Now I've gone from clueless to savvy, but since gaming the system this way most FT'rs probably are not aware of, or even if aware, would not attempt, did I just go from clueless to savvy to unethical?

The Plaza and Las Vegas Club (downtown casinos) usually send out quarterly mailings which include free rooms and other amenities. The upscale strip casinos aren't as generous, but for weekday rooms, they routinely have very good "casino" rates. About two years ago, Terribles (off the stip) was charging $9.00 per night for early december (one of the slowest periods in vegas.)
Signing up, by giving your e-mail address, will frequently get you nice offers.

Is this for real? You have to call them and can only get back $50 at a time? And they send you a snail mail check?

As soon as you've earned 50 Dividend Dollars or more, call us at 1–866–676–4672 or visit www.citicards.com so that we may send you a check for the total accumulated Dividend Dollar amount shown on your monthly billing statement. We cannot issue you a check unless you contact us. Checks cannot be issued for amounts less than $50 unless you've already received checks totaling more than $250. Cardmembers must be registered for Account Online in order to request a check at www.citicards.com.

This one has almost identical T&C.

As soon as you’ve earned 50 Cash Rewards Dollars or more, call us at 1-866-676-4672 or visit www.universalcard.com so that we may send you a check for the total accumulated Cash Rewards Dollar amount shown on your monthly billing statement. We cannot issue you a check unless you contact us. Checks cannot be issued for amounts less than $50 unless you’ve already received checks totaling more than $250. Cardmembers must be registered for Account Online in order to request a check at www.universalcard.com.

Anyone know of a card where they just credit the cashback on your statement? One with no forex charge would be the ultimate!

See my post #80. You can use your points for statement credit or many other things. Flexibility.

If you use it for other things, you can get much more than 1 cent/point value.

This points version of the card is also better because of a free sign-up bonus 5K points (use for $50 statement credit) or other things (free plane tickets, gift certs, etc. And the 5 points/$ limit is 75,000 points - so much higher!

OK Im clueless. Tell me everything I need to no but keep it short!

OK:
1. Accumulate miles
2. Accumulate points
3. Use above wisely
4. Read FlyerTalk often to best accomplish 1-3.

:)

Thx. Very good anser!!!

I just had a conversation with a co-worker. He started here a month or so ago.

We started talking about travel. Turns out, he has made eight trips to Singapore this year alone, and several trips to Europe. He was complaining about always being cramped in Coach on these long-haul flights.

He's a member of WorldPerks, but he has no idea of how many miles he has, has never worked a promotion (or even heard of them), didn't know you could upgrade with miles, was completely unaware of any hotel programs, and so on.

I started to explain a bit, but I got the familiar "eye-glaze", so I let it go.

oh you gotta take the time to help him, man!
you never know what perks this could give you (even without that being the main intent going in) when you hook someone up with your knowldge!

example: I told my brother to join United after having a long conversation about a promo with him, and he has so many miles with them now that he has given me free awards left and right! SPG stays too! He's already platinum from a few trips overseas...He has been away many times and he now must fly Singapore Airlines many times in the coming months to Jakarta for lengthy stays. He said I should come and may get us tickets because I helped him get perks!

I also work as a recruiter. Got to know one candidate who likes baseball and needed a certain job. He said I was nice about things in my approach as well as trying to help him get a certain job too. For this, he has utilized connections he actually has in the sport and has just offered my playoff tickets should the Red Sox make it yet again in Octobah!!!

It's alllllll networking and the big wheel comes back around to ya!

;)MM

well said on the networking, like it or not it's the way to make it most of the time (speaking of which, I should start doing some of that...)

my take on these "clueless people" is, quite frankly, let them do as they do. if they want to pay more, not use rewards cards, or become savvy consumers, let them. then all the more fun and profit to be had for us who know what we're doing. I'll make exceptions for family and friends, because I can't stand to see reckless spending, but unless someone specifically seeks advice, why go out of your way? if they're not interested in your tip on how to save 5% on gas, move on and be glad you know these things.

Well said. I educated a co-worker on hotel points and found out she is now using them to pay for nights on business related travel. This is not good and could lead to me looking selfish by not doing the same. I say leave well enough alone. If they are not a kindred FT spirit, turn them to FT and let nature take it's course. If they want to remain clueless after that, so be it.

Yep, when the promotion is doled out, guess who gets it? Or, more importantly, when the company is not doing to well, who's going to be asked to stay around? If she a cool person, she should send you a thank you note afterward for enlightening her.

I'm not in any hotel loyalty programs because unlike air travel, I don't have much control over the hotel booking.

I travel on business as a group, with a racing team, and I can never predict where we'll stay... one trip, a Hampton Inn, the next a local place not part of any chain, the next an AmeriHost, the week after that a Best Western.

Conversely, I can nearly always cajole our travel booker into putting me on the airline of my choice.

You can't cajole the travel booker into putting everybody into a hotel chain or chains where free nights can be earned?

Let's make that a "clueless travel booker". :)

join them all man! you never know where you will be or what it will offer years from now!
:)MM

Points do add up after a while, even if you stay once or twice a year, and it doesn't cost anything.

Corporate travel agents are always amazed at how many programs I have in my profile :p

Staying at a Radisson tonight, first time in a year.

-------------------------------

Just noticed: my 100th post!

These clueless people who think its too hard...
 

...should see what some of us do when it comes to miles/points. My "spreadsheet" is a small database to track points earned, spent, etc. Okay some of us are a little insane, but as some others have mentioned if less people participate that leaves a little more value in the pot for me, so I'm not a missionary about it, but I'll help friends and family sign up. My wife didn't even know she had an HP account until she was sitting in FC last week on her own elite upgrade (I nominated her :D )

She is almost to gold as we are saving miles for Hawaii and won't be using them on our shorter flights she has earned a fair amount of miles, but I do all the FF# entering etc.

We are a cool bunch of savvy point scrapers!
 

She's thanked me for letting her drive the Avis rental car around Bristol Motor Speedway right before Christmas when we were there on business, but the problem is she's not a greedy pig like me, so she doesn't ever want a promotion...no worries there. Actually no worries at all, since I'm looking for a new job. Any offers anyone? PM me if you need bio :cool: Many of my current job road warrior co-workers I know are like her with the points...they don't have the travel "bug", so getting their big screen TV sooner from Holiday Inn Points is about the only motivation where they might listen to me. Yeah, saving up for the 1080p! It's clueless by choice!

Some people are slow to come around
 

My experience is that it takes the public at large several years to catch on to developing trends and purchasing patterns. As for the aversion to credit cards, I think it goes back to the fact that approximately 50% of people carry balances on their credit cards - they don't pay the balance in full each month. I guess they figure they don't need another credit card because they already can't pay off the charges they have incurred previously.

It absolutely does pay off. We travel only a little, and already I have received "freebies" from AC, AS, Delta Hotels, SPG, Avis, FC lounge passes (Amenity promo), Fairmont coupons and many discounted car rentals. Mostly thanks to tips from wonderful FTers.

There are other issues too. I often attend events at particular hotels. Whether it be a professional conference or a science fiction convention, I much prefer to be at the main con hotel. This means I'll stay at many different hotel chains. ... However I can fly *A to any of them. This makes airline schemes much easier.

Airline programmes are also more useful because of the way hotels give out elite status in many ways. I've been gold level with Hilton and Starwood for around 5-8 years each, but never ever had even 20% of the required stays to earn it.

In the past, I used to simply put all my hotel stays in any chain towards Qantas. At 1000-1500 points per stay (and most of my stays were short) this was worth more than the hotel points anyhow! With the massive devaluation of the Qantas FF programme in the last 2 years, accompanied by reductions in the hotel points credited through it, I've changed to earning points with Starwood and Hilton, but it's only been worth it this last couple of years.

OK, you live in Australia. How about a free night at Park Hyatt Sydney after spending about $100 in revenue over two stays to earn it? Promotions like this make me go out of my way a bit to stay at a Hyatt, even if my meeting isn't being held there.

I am not sure about the other hotel programs, but Hyatt is enormously more lucrative than any airline program I have seen.

sad that this is so true. I too had some big balances but still at least got my miles!!

And then, during the height of all things gift cards, I was able to use their existence to pay down all my CCs and never owe fees at the end of each month! I simply paid peter with paul and "spun" the money and it wound down as I suplimented this with my income...

was worth all the work and I got a ton of cheap miles in the process!

;)MM

If she uses her hotel points for work-related stays, and if her boss also travels a lot and uses his points like most of us (for personal use), then she may be the one out the door. Like you, the boss doesn't want to be made to look bad.

For me, I've stayed at maybe 2 Hyatts in my whole life and they are seldom where I want to be. Of course, some promotions are well worth it. The Starwood one a few years ago dishing out 50k points for 5 stays at 5 different brands was just wonderful. However, the knowledge and effort required for such things is massively higher than what most people can be bothered with.

I used to just use the FF schemes of Qantas and Ansett (and later United) , and credit all my hotel stays and car rentals to one of those two. That's just two statements, two sets of promotions, and I could redeem multi-stop trips around Australia in business class for 37.5k points, which was a return up around 8-12c/pt.

Now, I am a member of over 10 FF schemes and half a dozen hotel schemes. I have almost 10 times as many statements to check and offers to read. Because Ansett is gone and Qantas is therefore slashing its programme to bits, it's worth it now, but only because I'm prepared to spend the time on it. The rate of return certainly increases less than linearly with effort, though.

...which is why I eventually trimmed the fat and am down to the following:

wife+self: SPG with Amex
Self: AA MC, NWA Visa, HH points for a stay we will soon redeem
Wife: UAL visa.
other family members who will share with us: other SPG points, NWA miles and CO miles.

us: no bills other than mortgage, no stray miles, no stray pets, 3 trips booked using points or miles. Ski passes already purchased for pending winter.

;)MM

You are the Man!
 

Yes, I recall those days. In fact, I think I learned about Charter One from reading one of your posts.

many benefitted and I feel there will be more GCs to come. it is just a matter of looking and of time.

Yes, you and others brought down Charter One. Are they still around? You think someone might have been fired because of this?

http://www.charteronebank.com/home/default.asp

I don't know.

yeah that's right, little old me--one guy--brought them down.

gee, how powerful am I, really?

I love it when others cast blame because they cannot see that CHANGE just DOES HAPPEN!

Look, all these gift cards have eveolved and changed due to massive market response, not just the actions of a few. If that were the case, then why doesnt my complaint letter to some airline make the problem go away? They have to hear the same response from a TON of people, that's why! Oh sure, maybe I wish it were just me, but it aint!

I think your post seems to suggest that it was just me-- or a few guys hanging out laughing, saying, "Hey, let's selfishly grab all the miles and screw the rest of the people!" That just aint right.

I think since this was around for a long time before even I got involved, it was destined to change anyway. Also, the bank was absorbed by Citizens bank when they stopped doing the GCs and Citizens does not have a product like it, so that was the main reason for the termination of the program, I think.

I have always touted a few things that may have actually HELPED PROLONG such gift cards, not kill them:

1) cooperation is better when handling the best methods to work a gift card or program. Then people can educate others (newbies, etc) on how to best use the program and not wreck it. I have been into doing this and have taught methods on how to stay under a radar, etc. But some think that if everyone is stealth and quiet, then everyone thinks that's why a program lives on... BUT the problem with this plan is the (A) it will never stay that way and no one is really qualified to judge who should not be let in the tiny club of stelth participants, (B) people stumble on programs on their own but because no one talks about it, they screw them up without realizing it, and (C) because people tell their friends--even if they think its ok to tell just one friend. Eventually it spreads anyway. there are no secrets. so that doesnt work.
Cooperation does.

2) it's not how many people, it's how they do the gig. BUT change goes on anyway. If everyone knew what to do with charter one, it will still change!

3) new gigs come up all the time. If they are marketed correctly and managed well by the company who made them up, then they will live longer and people like us will find them and use them. But if they are not, they have their own problems, so what do you expect? I say, if you have a problem with the demise of charter one, go find a new gig and play your part in sharing it with those who can also benefit. In turn, they will share their tips with you and hey, what a concept! It could be the very philosophy of FT itself, man!


Finally, please go look at all the other GCs. Go to the VisaBuxx thread and see what I mean about all this...

In fact here's a link to a recent post there:

Getiton has just replied to a thread you have
subscribed to entitled - Visabuxx – replacement for
Citicash ? - in the Other Credit Card Programs
forum of FlyerTalk Forums.

This thread is located at:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...6&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Received letter today."Bank of America regrets to
inform that effective November 4,2005 ,we will
end our support of the Visa Buxx program.Between
now and November 4th you can continue to use your
Visa Buxx account for purchases and ATM
withdrawals everywhere Visa debit cards are accepted.On
November 4,2005 your Visa account will be closed and
a check for the remaining balance in your account
will be automatically sent to you.We encourage
you to deplete the balance on your card before
November 4th.If you would like to open a new Visa
Buxx account,please visit www.Visabuxx .com to find
a list of current providers.

Don't forget people who "get" hotel and airline programs but neglect the car rental angle. A sad bunch indeed. ;)

I can defend not carrying health insurance by choice for millions that are healthy and do not have assetts that could be lost in bankruptcy. If you own a home, car and all of your assets are in retirement accounts (depending on the bankruptcy exemptions in the state you live in) you are probably better off putting that $500 to $1000 that many families pay into retirement accounts.

You will get medical care. If something catastrophic happens you may need file bankruptcy (but if all of your assetts are exempt who cares). There are fabulous top notch health insurance alternatives in Costa Rica, India, Singapore, and Thailand for 10 to 30 cents on the us dollar. Every state offers a high risk pool for $100 to $400 per person that you can jump into with a pre-existing condition if you come down with a major illness. And medicaid takes middle class people facing big medical bills.

I can assure you there are many millions of people who would end up with multi million dollar retirement accounts if they would direct their health insurance premiums into retirement accounts and they would get their health care. Our nations healthcare and insurance system is a cesspool that everyone doesn't belong in.

On the topic of credit cards. I know several people who far exceed 10% of their income in credit card debt but it was all invested and it stays on 0% or so rates. While I agree with you about consumer purchases there are exceptions here also.

[QUOTE=jerry crump]I can defend not carrying health insurance by choice for millions that are healthy and do not have assetts that could be lost in bankruptcy. If you own a home, car and all of your assets are in retirement accounts (depending on the bankruptcy exemptions in the state you live in) you are probably better off putting that $500 to $1000 that many families pay into retirement accounts.

QUOTE]


ok, you have raised MY eyebrow to this one...

I am not savvy to alternative ways of handling the need for health care on a more immediate basis should something go wrong with my wife and self.

can you PM--or even email me-- to the ways and means of what you are talking about?

We both have jobs, my insurance covers little, and I beleive the entire system is a money sucking scam, but, like gas for my old car I need to get to work, I have no choice right now but to play along and try to affect some little bit of change over time. I have no choice at least for TODAY.

i have had those plans people get who are young and healthy and need to travel and get insurance that covers something huge, but as a skier and a person who is 40 years old planning to have kids and be slightly more domestic, I have more consistent needs now and I have little time to do much research or apply the same sort of hobby-like attitude to certain things as I may with my miles. I can play with and risk miles, but cannot necessarily do this with our health plans. That's probably why the rates are so high: the companies KNOW this to be the case with most people like me!

BUT still...
I am clueless here.

as for people without insurance, note that as a recruiter of creative and marketing jobs, I see a ton of freelancers from all levels who have no insurance and have no way of getting any. The system does not allow for it. Our company offers a plan to some levels but it too is not so great.

One lady who works for $35/hr 40hrs a week at a major boston financial firm had to go get surgery that will cost her $15,000. The fact she is out of work will mean she gets no pay for the 2 weeks she misses as this job we placed her at. they will not oust her and grab some new long-term freelancer to take her place (although this has and can happen, sadly enough) but she has to pay to get most of her hospitaliziation needs taken care of. Our plan she is signed on to will only cover about $3k of it, meaning this gal has to pay the other $12k on her own!

And that's working full time--at least in terms of your being there 40hrs a week!

She had no opportunity for the real "full time benefits" because said company does not hire "full time" employees anymore due to budgetary and overhead concerns.
Now she makes some decent money and can save some of it, but even so, 12k is 12k.

how can SHE get by with something the rest of us are clueless about--and how much work would a working mother of 2 who needs surgery and devotes herself to her career and family have to do in order to get as savvy about these alternative health plans?

How much work will it take for someone like her or me to be as savvy as we all may be about cool mile tricks and tips that most clueless people have no idea about nor trust?

some people belived in systems that diluted themselves over time and they have no idea how to get out even if they could. Soe wanna and cannot, some gave up, and some have too much faith.

MM

You are kidding right? If you have no health insurance even if you truly can pay for an emergency room visit, you get the bum's rush out. The ER will not bother to find out if you can really pay and will treat you as if you are indigent. Medicaid does little for the working poor or middle class at least in my state. If you are working 40 hours a week it is just too bad. And those pools are not cheap and there are limits to the number of people they can accept each year.

A bankruptcy will cause significantly higher prices for everything in the future from any loans to life, auto and homeowners insurance for that person. And with the new BK laws going into effect you may have to pay it back anyway.

Putting that "$500 to $1000 that many families pay into retirement accounts" is a very bad bet when a simple broken leg for a healthy person can run $10,000 in total. The risks out weigh the gains IMHO. It is certainly bad financial planning.

I agree that our nation's (USA) insurance/health care is a cesspool but EVERYBODY should belong. If you go BK on us all you do is pass the cost of your care on the rest of us.

Prefacing this by saying that my personal belief is in a single payer universal insurance scheme for all citizens.

In many cities in the northeast, hospitals and clinics are not allowed to refuse treatment based on the ability to pay. All people with emergency illnesses must receive the same level of care regardless of insurance.

On the other hand, you make a good point about the new bankruptcy laws. I doubt that someone who plans his financial situation around avoiding health insurance premiums would be able to wriggle out simply by bankruptcy. But if the non-insured is "judgment proof," bankruptcy may not be his only recourse.