Complaining about missing miles and extra miles
 

Twelve weeks go by and a bonus doesn't post. So I send in an email
with all the details. I get one of those frustrating responses, that has my
email attached, and says "Please send us your frequent flyer number." The
number was in the message already. But I comply.

Now four weeks later, my bonus has posted threefold. Previously a similar situation has resulted in double miles. The first time I pointed it out,
and they didn't do anything. Two other times I didn't bother. I'd be
interested in the view of flyertalkers how to approach this.

1. Should I take the extra bonus as goodwill points for their mistake and let it ride?
2. Should I point out the extra miles mistake to them on the grounds that if the mistake was the other way, I'd still be bugging them?
3. Should I donate the points, or an equivalent number, to charity somehow?
4. Something else?

Thanks

Uh . . . do you really want a response to this one? If you tell them and they don't care, it's not your problem.

I would only complain - or let them know - if my acccount had posted as LESS miles - NEVER let them know of excess miles! If they want to give me more miles (or dollars, points, etc...) who am I to complain?

Count your fortunes and move on. Usually, the FFP have internal audits that will catch these things. But if I was missing miles I'd be the first to complain. :D

Whenever I return an exam to my students, I tell them the first thing they should do is to add up all the numbers in the left margin, one by each question, to see if they total the number in the circle at the top of the front page. If they add up to more than what's in the circle, I ask them to tell me so I can fix the mistake. If they add up to less than what's in the circle, I tell them that I'll correct the error if they want me to, but I don't expect them to say anything.

Same thing with airline miles. They'll probably fix it if you ask them to - though it's not unheard of to get a "keep them as a reward for your honesty" letter - but they won't hold it against you if you sit down and shut up. Don't let it bother you. How long would you fret over a dollar bill you found in the middle of an empty parking lot?

Ahh, welcome to my world: I speak muchly on the world of airlines not posting what they promise...

'Tis the most common thing in FT, in my opinion: Yup, the problem of mileage posting and offer integrity. I see it in one way or another in nearly every section of the entire site!

It kills me that the airlines and hotels still try to play the "rebate scam" mentaility on us all--every single day, knowingly or unknowingly! (mostly the former)

they need to fix this one and it costs everyone money as long as they do not. It is where custoomer service fell apart and everyone knows it. That being said, I used to have more faith but that, and the system of service itself, has seriously erroded over the past few years alone!

Where I would one day say that you should notify them about the overage and allow them to extract the extra mileage, I would now say: Screw it! Take the miles and F**k 'EM!

Once, AA did a big baggage no no to me. I told them, they eventually compensated--with the now unheard of CASH--and I was about to move on but they paid me twice! So I called them and told them this and the lady said, "well, thanks for being honest. Firstly, sir, it involves more paperwork than it's worth to take back the extra money from you now, and secondly, because you were upfront about this, I will personnaly allow you to keep the extra $200."

With that, I knew I liked AA.

But times have changed... OH have they ever! That CS lady was probably "let go" in the wake of huge post-9/11 layoffs, and the types of people currently employed at airlines who still have their jobs are the likes of the guy who is on tape telling a flight attendant on flight 11 to "keep this quiet and stay hush hush" about the terrorist hijackings! Yup, today it's all about masking the truth! (I have heard the FBI tapes and he actually said word to that affect, and actually did say "let's keep this quiet...")

And so now, as a result, this "good customer" has reacted with changes as well: Now I am all for grabbing and using every mile I can, and who cares if they screwed up in my favor, but I'll be darned if they ever miss posting on my account for 12 weeks! Esepcially when they claim it will post a lot sooner than that.

Yup, I am changed as well, but I am not bitter. I just play the system and I know the mindset of most players who currently run it the way they do. (By the way, there are ways to PURPOSELY make them post double, but let's just say I am NOT promoting that kind of activity in this thread).

Keep the miles.
Say nothing.
Move on.
You win!

I am seriously glad to hear there's one who did win! If these airlines change the mindset or change the game, I will too. But I am only one guy trying to survive and you tell me how many fees and unavailable award seats you are willing to weather before you get a bit miffed as well. You NEED those extra miles.

In the end, of course, it could be possible that ONE good person remains at your airline who figured, "hey, this guy waited so long that we should give him something extra!"

Let's hope THAT'S it. (you see, I have hope in me too!) Either way, keep 'em! ;)MM

I look at it like this....
 

...the extra miles are for the PITA it is to follow-up with e-mails, faxes, and phone calls to get what is yours to begin with.
Jeffrey

Unlike MM, who seems to think this whole thing is an adversarial competition, I tend to cooperate and get cooperation back. When US made a mistake in redepositing miles for an award I used, I told them about it the next time I called and they corrected it. It was the right thing to do.

A few months later, when something was missing from my bag, I called them up and filed a claim with an estimated amount. I was getting worried that it took so long for them to call me back to get the details when a check for the full amount showed up. I like to believe what comes around goes around.

If you've tried and it has not been corrected, I would then say you have done your fair share and can keep them without concern.

I once had a major loyalty program make a 176,000 point error in my favor. I asked them about it and had them correct the mistake. Didn't get anything special for it, either. ;)

So I put my miles where my mouth is when it comes to being honest and attempting to crrect mistakes.

However, I don't feel a particularly strong compunction about policing all errors that a program may make in my favor. I transferred some points from Diners Club. The miles didn't post after two weeks, so I called. The miles posted and I got a phone call back confirming this. Yesterday the miles posted again. It was just 1000 miles, transferred for the NW FFF 5 promo. I called to get my 1000 miles, and I'm not going to call about the extra 1000 miles.

But if a loyalty program wants to call me to follow up on mistaken points posting, I'd be happy to
* send a form letter response, apologizing for their flight delay
* send a request for documentation that was contained in the first message
* ask them for greater patience, and to contact me again in 6-8 weeks
* finally return the extra miles as a 'goodwill gesture'

Seriously, while I am honest in my dealings with programs and point out major mistakes in my favor I do think that it is reasonable for me to look out for my own interests -- honestly and forthrightly -- and to let the programs look out for their interests.

Take the extra points and RUN

At first glance it was :confused: :confused: :confused: ... Then :eek: and :D :D :D :D ROTFLMRO ^ ^ ^

FYI: Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Rump Off ;)

Thanks for an idea! I think I'm just going to write a form "complaint letter" and post it here. It would probably be similar to the online complaint letters we already fill out, but my gut just tells me it is a heck of a lot more amusing to have a fill-in-the-blank/multiple choice form letter to hand-fill out and mail in. I think I would add a multiple choice "compensation" section. And at the bottom, I'll even write that I was going to write a personalized letter but I knew all I would get in return is a form letter so I figured I would save my time and just fill in the blanks and circle the letters.

If the cashier gives you too much change I think we would almost all agree we have a moral obligation to point it out and return it to him/her, but with miles I think most of us view it as a game not a real currency. Maybe that's because the airlines keep changing the rules and they treat it like a game instead of a valuable currency.

The earlier example that I mentioned was another company. I guess that
wasn't clear.

Thanks everyone for the discussion. (Particularly to gleff for the laugh.)
I decided to point out the excess in an email to them. (We'll see what happens, if anything.) But I would feel pretty justified to let it slide. I
have a nagging worry that they'll take away both the excess bonus and
the bonus in the first place.

Several people have used analogies, and I guess the point to me now is the amount, and not the absolute principal. If I found $50 on the street (and I
have), I think that turning it in would be unrealistic. But a larger amount
should be turned in. Of course, I don't know where to draw the line. A
young man got quite a bit of attention when he found a bag in my
community with $9,000 and turned it in.
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=368149

It had fallen off a Brinks truck!

[QUOTE=sosafan]
My friend saw a kid rob the pizza guy in college. he told the cops, the cop wrote his name in a book too, and later, on at least two occasions, he was considered suspect in similar thefts because said cop had written him in the wrong book.

shouldnt have brought attention to himself, perhaps.
perhaps not. They never caught the guy and the pizza guy (we found we knew him, it later turned out) did not have to pony up the missing money, which turned out to only be $10.

If you draw attention to yourself on this one, they may watch your account. Otherwise it is highly unlikely and I have not seen any airline take away such miles before. It is petty to them, and yet, huge to you!

I woudl probably return the $9grand too, but hey, if it is brinks, then it is insured. But if it iwere the Mob's money, I would DEFINIETLY return it!! they will find me if I do not.

;)MM

My experience is that if they had that much trouble posting the miles, giving them back will be even more difficult for them. Only exception was that massive Goldpoints extra transfer a couple years back; they seemed to have fixed that on their own even though many of us advised them of the error. Also the extra Hilton points from that auto site quickly disappeared on their own.

I recently TWICE advised an airline they had only deducted the 80000 miles for my husband's ticket and none for mine; the second CSR actually said, "I won't tell anyone if you won't." It was obviously too much trouble for him to fix.

It happened to my only once. I got double credits for one segment of a 6 segment trip. It happened after asking CO multiple times to properly credit the trip. It took about 6 months to get the miles credited. Ifigured a 2000-miles excess is not worth the trouble for me or for them to correct. Besides it may take another 6 months to get all sorted out.

This may actually be a "sliding scale" situation.

If you found $5 on the ground, you most likely wouldn't bother trying to find a policeman or authority to turn in the money, right?

On the other hand, $500 or $5,000 would probably be enough money for you to think it's worth the trouble of turning it in, and you might do so.

But then again, if you found $50 million on the ground, would you turn it in, or would the temptation to run away and retire in paradise be too strong?

I got miles posted to my account one time for a flight I wasn't even on. I called the 800-number to let them know and the agent was so confused saying that no one had ever called to have miles removed. She said she didn't know how to take off miles posted by mistake, said "Merry Christmas," and that was it. Oh well... at least I tried.

PremEx has written that he has frequently asked to have non-flight miles removed from his United account. He credits partner points to other programs. That way he's able to say, when looking for an inventory exception while trying to claim an award, that all the miles in his account are from actually flying the airline.

I agree.

Does this work for him?

He reports that it does (or at least it did, when he posted this some years ago!)

OK, some have reported getting miles mistakenly posted to their account, for example, for flights taken by someone else unknown to you.

How about 12K+ flight miles (that's EQMs, folks!) and 10K+ bonus miles? Now we're starting to get into real numbers, and numbers that materially affect one's status! (Not to mention the earning of 500-milers and CR1s.)

Will an audit by the airline discover the mistake (and possibly kick you back into a lower status)? And just when might such an audit occur?

And if one notifies the airline of the error, are they likely to mess up the account in the process of trying to fix it, e.g., by removing upgrades that they shouldn't, and the like?

Anyone have answers? :confused:

After reading all the contributions to this thread, I just have to put in my 2C worth. I think you have to do what is comfortable for you. If you feel guilty about keeping something that doesn't belong to you, give it back. If you don't feel guilty about it, there's no need to justify it (because you can't), just keep it. There's no need to sugarcoat anything. We'll all mature enough to know there is a difference between what you should do and what you actually do. I don't think there is a "sliding scale" about how large or serious the mistake is, it is something that doesn't belong to you. If you decide to keep something that doesn't belong to you, just do it and get on with life. Don't make excuses or look for someone or something to justify what you did. I don't think there is a person alive who is 100% honest or 100% dishonest. Remember the saying: "You know what you did."

Uh-oh, here come the trolls.

No useful facts, just patronizing lectures. :rolleyes:

Wow----you guys make me feel like a criminal :(

I would usually think that this type of situation is a no brainer, especially on FT but I guess saints exist everywhere. Honestly, I treat my account and the company as a "every man for themselves" type of mindset. Companies gift miles all the time for inconviences, it's no major loss out of their pocket per se.

In any case, I doubt that they will "debit" you. You took your time and effort to correct them on their mistake. Enjoy the compensation.

I've never had extra miles credited, but if there was a small mistake in my favor, I'd probably not bother with it. This is because I've not been credited for all miles due me for various promotions, but find it's not worth the time and energy spent trying to fix a mistake of 1-2K miles each time.

If it were a significant amount, I'd definitely tell the airline, whether it was in my favor or theirs.

1-2K is a lot miles for me. Heck, I've clawed for less than 100! :p

Well they never answered. And just do close the book on this, I finally
got a paper statement which listed two identical booking bonuses for these
flights. It wasn't threefold, as I had thought, it was just double. There
was another bonus that I had no memory of.

Monopoly!
 

"Bank Error in your Favour, collect $20" ;)

missing points.com miles??? try these tips:
 

Heres a big one in the "missing miles & points" category, and how to handle it.


Points.com.
I had many many dealings with these points.com jokers. Stay away.

but in the meantime, try these people:

"Mike Glass" <[email protected]>

he's the top dawg for all things database, software and fixing issues, as far as I got w/miles finally showing up... still looking for a number but i bet if you CC him and explain everything with a nice intro, he may help--if still there.


Michael Baruch
<[email protected]>
Director, Partner Marketing
Points International
179 John Street, 8th Floor
Toronto, Ontario M5T 1X4
tel: 416-596-6393
fax:416-595-6444
efax:786-549-7932

this guy is your typical have no time for this marketer A type personality who actually sells the concept that this stuff works... for the client, not you and I. But see if he can help too. seems to be not a bs type of guy but still in sales. srry if you are, but thats just my opin...


Lissa Romano
Manager, Customer Delight
Points International Ltd.
Ph: 416.596.6370 ext 3023
Fax: 416.596.3268
[email protected]


she sucks. takes too many days off to deal with this stuff and helps no one. I was NOT delighted... but I wondered if she was at least some kind of bimbo hottie... cuz she was stooopid as hell!

well, CC and barrage them all! you will eventually get your points but you must NEVER let down until you see them post. Never!

make em sweat. trust me. I took a year to help 100 Fters get about a total of 10k AA miles (via points.com) each!

wow.
good luck!

:)MM
and spread the word on this too mates! stop others from using them! they are a legal scam!

oh and AVOID the UNITED MALL!!
they fail to post and when they finally do, its too late to book that flight that you had needed the few miles for, and so you lose. I have whole folders on this...
got contacts there too.

I try to be "above board" with all of the loyalty programs that do a fairly good job in resolving missing points/miles when I bring that to their attention. Surprisingly, I have found that the vast majority of programs are helpful and post (some quicker than others) missing items.

On one occasion a few years ago, a major loyalty program overcredited my FF account by close to 15,000 miles. This was after 7-8 months of back and forth with one of the program leads as I attempted to receive the proper credits for a bonus promotion. When I called the overcredit to their attention, I was permitted to keep the extra miles because "of all the issues I had with getting the correct mileage posted". :)

GoldPoints is the one program that I would never notify of an overcredit, although I very much doubt that they ever overcredit anyone. The lies they told, and the pain and agony they inflicted in attempting to receive miles from the ValueMags promotion a number of years ago, has forever put a stain on this program. Their utter contempt for the customer is something I, and many other FlyerTalkers, will never forget. I owe them nothing and that is exactly what they will get from me.

I also try to be above board but I have honestly thrown a lot of that mentality out the window when it comes to some marketing initiatives that companies like points.com and the airlines are doing these days...

In a slight way, I liken it to when I was 18 and had a fake ID. Would not drink and drive or cause trouble because I was smart enough to know about that problem, and mostly I just attended the college parties my peers went to, but yes, I certainly DID need that secret ace in the hole in case I needed to get into a bar. I would do what it takes to cheat the system to be happy and survive college's earlier years... No one had to know of this but you, me and my closer UMASS, Amherst college friends…

Wrong you say? well whatever. Get a life. I got my own rules in some of these areas that work for me, and am responsible for my actions if the ....e hits the fan. But like I say: in the case of companies like GoldPoints, Points.com and some of the airlines and lots of rebate gigs, it is usually them giving us ....e, and its a huge freakin fan! You almost really do NEED to have a sort of secret “way in” to get around their customer service “bouncers,” dontcha?

And furthermore, with miles and points, and promos of the like (rebate scams, etc) I find a few dynamics going on lately: Companies are messing with customers a lot more lately. It’s a trend and we fall into easy traps… Yup, companies are sophisticated but strained. They have become desperate. Desperate times make for desperate measures! They somehow let themselves subscribe to beliefs and ideals coming from on high that do not allow for realistic and proper monetary forecasting, marketing reality, and the true needs of their own consumer, who is often strained by their own economic issues! Nevertheless, they still power thru the relentless and selfless need to sell sell sell (and often take ownership of NOTHING product-wise, which is why your new cell phone and its service stink, or that software already needs an expensive upgrade). They do this despite the shortcomings and consequences that anyone with a brain can clearly see! But um, they make money so we are supposed to trust and look up to them?… huh? Well, again, I say: Get a life!

This goes further than just “American Capitalism” because the foundations for that are much more honorable, I think. No, these kinds of organizations therefore decide that they must continue to find ways to both maintain what money they have, and also keep making it based only on the sheer will to survive, not just to build a better community or some sort of real loyalty, relationship or longevity, etc. They do this by duping you and I with schemes that look decent and feel right, but then we find ourselves out in the cold scratching our collective heads wondering what happened and if it’s worth chasing down the $30 rebate or the 5,000 missing airline miles from XYZ promotion we should have printed out—oh well, forget it. And if we do pursue, we run the gauntlet and often start by calling on far off and often clueless 3rd party customer service reps who are named Latisha J and Chrissi in the Seattle office, who have no ID extension or last name, and wont tell you anything but the commonly heard annoying script of the day. But that's ok hun, I'm the only one here with that name in case you have to call back and actually get thru the phone prompts!

And so, you get scared off by gold points, I’m scared off by Points.com and United's mall, he's scared off by AA, she's scared off by NWA, they are scared by this or that bank, and someone else is scared off by, I dunno, Walmart or Home Depot! Doesn’t matter, you get the idea.

What happens is that we are ALL reluctant to shop! To consume... afraid to participate in a game that will invariably always try to eat us alive no matter what the status or level we thought we have attained with them. And the reason? Gordon Gecko said it: because they can! You know what else he said...

Somethin’s gotta change, mate, and it starts with you and I!

Because this fear to consume based on bad experiences may ultimately cause the real reason for an economy to shrink, either causing some more of the same desperation that led to all of the above, or somehow finally enabling the much needed wake up call to all of us! Let’s hope that happens soon! I say, Make it right or get out!

Now, as a result, with my dealings in all things miles and points, at least, I will openly and blatantly seek out and find every way I can to dupe the system, cheat the marketers, trick the tricksters and tell you all about it, because they made me into this man, and they cant do anything to stop me really. I am not ruining it, it’s trying to ruin me. And I will do this because, well, as one little guy, it's my ace in the hole... my way to survive, and my out in case that 10,000 miles I legitimately worked hard and honestly for, fails to arrive when they promised. (btw, I don’t do it in other worlds, so whatever, naysayers)

Now, what I just said is not 100% always true: I will NOT --repeat NOT "screw over" or intentionally seek out to mess with any company or marketing program that takes the time and effort to do these things:

1) research your deal and make it work. fix the bugs, address the concerns. Spend the long money to maintain the long dollar! You put the deal forth? Test it and make sure it works right! Consider the what ifs!

2) listen to the customer feedback, retain loyalty, make that your goal so that the money just rolls in on its own. Sales will be needed but is less the deathly focus... More so it needs to be about building networks and relationships that last and share with others. You don’t do that, you deserve to be walked all over in life and in business, in my opinion! I aint sayin’ I am 100% right about my ways, but I KNOW these scam marketers sure aint, and they are steeling YOUR money, not just mine.

3) be good, be smart, be tough, make do, be inclusive, be fair, give bones, rinse, lather, repeat. It's not "what if something goes wrong" or "it wont because we think we are perfect," rather, it's "how can we fix it for everyone so it goes wrong less and we are there to be accountable for it" that counts for this man!!

these kinds of businesses get me to shop their always and guess what: They are rarely found on the tarmac these days! Sad but true. Oh i hope it changes and some take a lesson from others!

;)Passionate MM surely about to get some cheers and jeers here.