Randy, I feel that Southwest DOES HAVE its concept of an elite level program and it does "differentiate between the better customers and those that are just today's passengers." As I think we are all aware, it's just that "elite" isn't in their vocabulary or lexicon!!! A rose is still a rose, by any other name, though. Southwest's prestigious top level is "The Companion Pass" and it is a very valuable credential to possess. I know, because I've been there, done that. Hats off to Herb (Kelleher, Southwest Airline's CEO) for this one!!!



www.southwest.com/rapid_rewards/comp_rules_and_regs.html

From their web site,
"...Really frequent flyers who fly 50 or more roundtrips within a 12 month period become Companion Reward Members and are eligible for a Companion Pass that lets a person of their choice fly free when traveling with the Member anytime for an entire year. The Member will automatically be notified when he/she qualifies, and will be sent a form to designate his/her travel partner. The Companion Pass has no blackout dates, and is valid for travel with any Southwest Airlines fare paid ticket or Award Ticket!..."

I wonder if "The Companion Pass" were called and advertised by Southwest Airlines as their "elite" level, would it then allow it to be included and compared with other elite level programs???????? Or would it still be said that Southwest doesn't offer an elite program to reward their most frequent flyers? Which, I feel, indeed it does. A rose is still a rose, by any other name. Just a few thoughts!

[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 06-03-99).]

[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 06-03-99).]

[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 06-03-99).]

[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 06-03-99).]

I'm aware of the Companion Pass and that it is among my favorite awards of all time. As for designating that an Elite level program, that might be a stretch. It doesn't pass any single benefit back to the frequent flyer, other than the fact that one may take a free companion (pre-designated) along when traveling at some time. But doesn't Southwest have a popular "Friends Fly Free" program that runs quite often that allows the oridinary passenger to take a companion along for free? The qualifying is 50 roundtrips a year. That's some kind of traveling. Now who has that benefit, how many times could your significant other take advantage of that? Since the Companion must fly with the member, it limits how it might be used (fly the companion in at the end of a business metting for an extended weekend means you'd have to use a real award rather than the Companion Pass. I think it's a very clever award, but probably not comparable to the variety of benefits that other elite programs offer. If it were an Elite program, it might move it from an F to a D-. Hey, remember, I do like Southwest Rapid Rewards here....

Randy,

I hate to pick on you some more, but I'm a bit concerned about your low ranking of Delta even more and why you would have done it. I agree, the L-class and companion thing sucks, but this comment worries me:

"Why is it that Delta is the only major carrier without a truly identifiable global alliance partnership that aggregates benefits and privileges? You know, like OneWorld, Star Alliance (I know about the Atlantic Excellance allaince)."

I guess only DL, UA, and AA are "major carriers" then, because I can't think of any "truly identifiable global alliance partnership" that US, TW, or CO are in (I'll give you NW with their partnership with KLM, though that's a stretch).

The "Atlantic Excellence" Alliance, despite it's limited scope, is still better than anything you'll find at US, TW, or CO I think ...

[This message has been edited by Beckles (edited 06-03-99).]

This is one of the more interesting threads that I have read on this board. It really gets to the heart of the whole Frequent Flyer thing - 'Customer Loyalty'. Almost all the points made so far can be seen to be correct, it just depends upon which prism you are viewing it through.

It is as if we have all fell right into the clutches of the marketing people at their respective airlines and we will all do anything to defend our favorite airline/program. (I am absolutely guilty of doing this myself.) As Randy correctly points out, you really shouldn't do a rating to begin with - each person has different priorities and views on what makes something great or better than something else.

So, I congratulate the Freq. Flyer programs and the Airlines for instilling this fervor in all of us... Could you imagine being this excited about your toaster manufacturer or your Internet Service Provider?

Good points Steve...

Has anyone ever considering ranking the programs from the perspective of the smaller airport business traveler? I picked Delta because from Huntsville, AL (HSV) I can fly to DFW, ATL, or CVG on Delta to connect. No other airline here gives you a choice of a hub North, East, and West of here. Delta flights also outnumber each competition's flights by a factor of at least 2:1.

There are so many reviews and so many surveys and so many opinions that I think that rating the BEST airline/hotel/supermarket is subjective.

For some: Delta is the greatest airline in the universe. Terrific!

For others its Southwest or Virgin Atlantic.

As for me I don't have a FAVORITE Airline/hotel/credit card. I have those I use most frequently but nothing (and no one is perfect.)

Maybe Randy you said it best at the Freddies that ultimately the determination of the best program is up to the individual flyer. So an airline may be second int eh Freddies and dead last in U-S-A Today but ulimately a good friend like Phil has built up a long time business with Delta, it works for him and then that's terrific.

(Sorry if I misquoted you Randy... and if I did let me extend my apologies.)

Well, that's my five cents (and ONE MORE POST TO 3K.)


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MEOW! MEOW! MEOW!!!

My criticism was based on Randy's words in his June 2 post in which he said FF rated the programs "based on criteria set by USA Today." That's a bit different from having them simply provide "categories" on which to rate the programs. Or am I confusing the meanings of the words "criteria" and "categories." Had Randy's first post used "categories," my remarks wouldn't have been nearly as critical, and I apologize for misinterpreting his words.
As I said in an earlier post, I've never had any trouble upgrading on Delta (although I, too, hate the L fare restriction). And, although my wife is Silver Medallion in her own right this year (probably won't be next), I never had any problem upgrading her with me when she wasn't. In fact, on one trip when I hadn't bothered to try, the gate agent called us up and upgraded both of us on the spot, using one segment certificate.
Neither do I believe either Delta or Marriott is likely to discriminate against you for their not-so-hot ratings. Based on my experience with Marriott, they're more likely to thank you and try harder. Delta may well do the same thing, although I don't think their new management has quite yet come to recognize the connection between customer satisfaction and the bottom line.
It's been said several ways in several posts on this thread, but it bears repeating: Our choice of airlines and programs has little if anything to do with either subjective or objective ratings done by others. It's a very personal choice, sometimes one over which we have little or no control.

As has been said: Statistics/induction provide a general view of what most might rank based on selected criteria. Someone's personal/subjective opinion is not incongruous with statistical/inductive findings.

For those of you who want to invoke your own rating: fine. A person's own opinion is not necessarily going to invalidate Randy's findings. Giving your own opinions don't disprove Randy's findings, they only prove your own. Based on a larger sample, more data, Randy's finding are going to have more validity as a general statement than a sole person's opinion. Perhaps undertaking your own study would be the way to go.

Now, you may want to challenge Randy's criteria, but I tend to think that for the general fflyer population he has used acceptable criteria. Moreoever, Randy's comment is that he, in fact, likes Delta, despite the findings/rankings.

Functioning purely as a user, not a guru, here's how I would rank the three airlines I experience most:

#1. ALAKSA. Everything about Alaska is perfect, except it is almost impossible to get through to their partner desk for award bookings. Once you get there, they have to be the world greatest customer service employees.

#2. Northwest. Not the greatest fleet, but they do OK with what they have to offer. At least their website works for booking. Domestic pricing and routing are great, food is horrid, but come on its Minneapolis. Some of their FA's are wonderfully fun.


#3. UNITED (so far). Just started with them and have to give them a fair chance. Their PE agents are nice but don't have the full story especially when it comes to on-line booking problems. I feel they aren't really empowered to "make it happen". Too bad. Will withhold final judgment for few more trips.

I disagree with Steve's statement that FF programs are about "Customer Loyalty". The best line in the USA Today article was when Randy described how he underestimated the public's greed.

This thread prompts two thoughts:

First, the problem with how to factor various rankings is endemic to this type of survey, whether it's ranking Frequent Flyer programs, colleges, or places to live. Are crime, weather, and cost of living really equivalent? As someone once said, "You pays your money and you makes your choice."

And second, as someone else said, "There are lies, ****ed lies, and statistics."

My own views about these surveys/rankings are very similar to those expressed in http://www.FrequentFlier.com/ffc-0603.htm

Regarding: "#1 Place to live" surveys/rankings, often I feel that I would not live in the "#1 Place" even if someone paid me to.

My program of choice has done right by me on many occasions, and I will travel with them as my first choice. Rankings have nothing to do with it.

If/when the day arrives where they do not meet my expectations, I will choose another carrier. Out of loyalty, I will naturally give them the opportunity to "make it right". Once again, rankings will have nothing to do with it.

I suspect that most people are of the same view with their program of choice.

As for #1 rankings in general - the old saying, "All glory is fleeting" comes to mind. I have driven through some tiny, jerkwater towns which proudly boast, "Best place to live in Haystack County, 1986", and 2/3 of all business storefronts are boarded up.

The #1 place to live is my address. I can't believe that anybody would pick up and move based on some rating in some magazine.

Then again, I can't believe that people come to blows over Beanie Babies, so what do I know?

For comparison, coming forward from nearly two years ago!

Anything changed?

Exactly where does Delta get these mysterious customers?


[This message has been edited by mntblue (edited 04-27-2001).]