good call. I am going to find it (didnt even really realize there was one) and also, maybe if some moderator in this forum happens to see this post and beat me to iit, that would save me the time.

Thanks!
He should read this stuff.
:)MM

If Randy isnt answering you - there is probably a reason

Won't Happen
 

There will never be a significant exchange method for FF miles between programs at good exchange rates. The programs are simply not going to cooperate with any kind of program which attempts to make the points in all programs fungible commodities. If the points of each airline were fungible, the traveler would lose all incentive to stick with his favorite FF program carrier. The traveler would simply take the best flight (whether times, or non-stop, or cheapest price) and transfer the points back into his favorite currency. Thus, I don't think you will ever see a new point exchange enterprise enter the picture which offers anything significantly different that the current offerings of points.com. Making the points readily exchangeable with other points would reduce a traveler's incentive to stick with the program, and would dilute the very reason these loyalty programs exist.

Djlawman

but how do you know?
 

gee, I am so really hoping that's because he's so busy that he needs lots of time to get to it, and not because he would just blow it off completely. That would be so....
points.com of him?
I seriously doubt Randy is of the same ilk. I will wait and see but if you have further insight, go ahead and put it out there.

Anyway, my main reason for trying to see if a competitor of them could exist is not because of reducing fees or trying to screw up people's loyalties to airlines, rather, it is to make them start to feel the pressure of competition. This action alone would make them feel the need to be a bit more accountable when it comes to posting people's missing miles!

THAT is my main concern. I want to see points.com carry thru with its promises and give the miles to all of us who have missing ones. Their CS sucks. Competition or pressure from someone in their own company or on the board would help rout this major error. It affects us all, ya know!

:)MM

I grant that there might be a ton of details to work out, but Marathon Man's idea is a good one. I believe something like what he proposes would find a lot of FT support and I look forward to further discussion. Thanks, MM, for floating this idea.

sorry, i was out last week doing this gig:
http://www.webflyer.com/liveflyer/seal.php

and then had to come in this weekend and now to close on the next issue of InsideFlyer. while not a true all-nighter, mucho hours the past few days. Will chime in on this thread when my mind clears after deadline - perhaps Wed or Thursday.

I think MM's idea is a good one from the consumer standpoint - but not profitable from the business standpoint simply because point.com isn't making much so a competitor splitting the market isn't going to do well profit wise.

I don't think point.com could have a high profit margin based the airlines lack of willingness to may much $$ out for their miles. If someone shows I am wrong on this, then giving points.com competition would be a great business idea.

thanks PJMiles, wannafly and Randy, and others...
 

I am just hoping SOMEONE can look into ways to make what exists become better for all. I am starting to find that many companies have figured out this strange and unfortunate dynamic:

that which is good for the customer is not good for business--as it stands these days, what, with a down economy.

BUT, I think in the long run, it SURE IS, and that, my friends, may be the very thing needed to bring back the good times!

I think the policies and errors of points.com is going to cost them down the line. That's bad for biz also. FT could do something like this with less of a concern on merely turning a profit on the transfer itself. Instead, it could run it in such a way where membership to that particular part of the specialized forum could have some sort of costs or fees associated with it that many of us would gladly pay.

Well, We will wait and se eif Randy can come up witha few cool idea on this one. I would love to offer my help or ideas where needed. My site link, www.theothersideoftraveling.com has a whole bunch of things describing what can go wrong, that's for sure.

:)MM

Exactly - I've been getting beaten up for years on these boards by stating the same thing. The goal of the airlines' FF programs is to issue as many as they can (revenues) while doing everything in their power to limit redemptions (costs).

While there are ways to legally convert miles to cash through these exchange programs, the cash value is incredibly low (around 1/2 cent). That is the "floor value" of a mile. Any value that the holder wants to get above that requires them to play the airline's game. Why would an airline want to raise the "floor value" of the mile and make their game less relevant?

It's a nice racket that the participating airlines are playing with points.com - their customers merely trade miles back and forth between their programs and points.com siphons off 50-90% of the value with each exchange. What a deal!

[For those who do not know ways to legally convert to cash, one simple example would be airline miles -> eBay Anything points -> PayPal acct -> checking acct]

I think djlaw has it exactly right.

Keep in mind a few realities:

First of all, the market for a product like this is very small. Most people don't really understand how miles work, and they don't seem to be interested enough in them to spend a lot of time trading them.

Second, the purpose of miles (by those who issue them); namely, to encourage brand loyalty. If there was a successful system (and it certainly appears that points.com is not one of those) that was developed, a couple things would/could happen:

1) The airline would change the rules in a manner that we would not appreciate. Think of a rule that said that you could only redeem your miles for yourself and immediate family...or just yourself.

2) The airline gets rid of miles altogether. Think about it. If the means to encourage brand loyalty is not accomplishing that, and is, as djlaw said, completely fungible, the airline has no incentive to issue them any longer.

Finally, consider what you really want to do. You're wanting to buy a sandwich at Subway, and trade your subway club stamps for a quizno's sandwich. It's just counterintuitive.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, to the detriment of all.

agreed, in part. Again, I am trying to make something happen that forces points.com to stay loyal to its customer and play fairly!

it does not right now. I would rather not have them around as a trade off.

as for mile to cash systems, I get burnt out on the corruption that I see taking place in these airline partnership schemes the marketers come up with. I mean, nowadays it's not about customer loyalty, it's all about companies abilitiy to steal or hijack one's loyalty! It's guerilla marketing and near scamming that makes us "stay" with a company! We have no choice! They have our money or miles or info and so we have to use it or lose it! We have to use those 15,000 miles here or those 4000 points there or else they will expire or something. We have to find ways to transfer that 20k miles to someone else because they will become worthless since that amount is no longer enough points to fly... Things like that.

As for airlines that have poor redemption rules, I give you British Airways and their household accounts, or Singapore Airlines where you actually have to pay to change the limited names your account can have to fax in a form to nominate who is authorized to use your miles!

Places like points.com that allow you to transfer miles is a good thing, but the way they do it is not so good. This is because they will often drop the ball and things will go wrong with your request. I think transferring miles wont cause a breakdown in the system in itself, but if they dont fix their errors, that will cause a breakdown in the system.

I dunno, i tried to fix this but am too tired to type.
!MM

What? :confused:

sorry, squeazed too much into one post.


re read it from another angle.

I tried, but now my neck hurts :(

;)

alright, sorry again, I actually typed this so fast whilst trying to get some actual office work done, and then just now, I tried to type edits to it and it still sucks. So sorry about being a bone head there.

Anyway, here is my point (no pun intended):

some may believe that the service of points.com having its ability to transfer miles will eventually cause some problems that could lead to the end of miles as we know them.

Does that statement make sense?

Well, I could see how that could happen, but I think the main issue is HOW they allow transfer, not whether they do or not.

My thinking is this: if points.com allows these transfers and makes money, that's fine, but please, I beg that they do them right and be fair about it. Some airlines like singapore or BA already have strict rules on who can use an award ticket and that is sad. This could be because they had so many problems with transfer issues or award abuse. We wouldnt want all the other airlines to have these strict rules too, and so if points.com transfers starts to cause problems for the airlines, then we would be in trouble and mile awards as we know them would essentially cease to exist.

If points.com has lots of problems when it comes to fixing issues that customers have, or posting points late and having people complain to them about that sort of thing, then that action in itself may cause some ripples in their system. If these ripples are seen by airlines to be corrupt or widely problematic, then they would want to pull the plug. Ultimately, within the entire process of transferring points, we would have new rules we would hate.

So if we could fix points.com or if we could have some competition to their model, then maybe all of this stuff would just get better, not worse. You see, if they had some competition, this would give them incentive to fix their own issues.

Does that help?
Need coffee. Long day at the office.
:)MM