Sometimes it's difficult to see the forest for the trees!

Anthonyanthony was almost there, but FewMiles picked up on it first.

EWR-AA-ORD-AA-LAX
LAX-UA-ORD-UA-EWR

Answer B, point-to-point, has been eliminated in a previous post.

By definition, a round trip (itinerary) is composed of a return portion which is an EXACT "mirror image" of the outbound journey.
(Basically, the psgr will be doing the same thing in both directions, just reversed on the return).

Since our psgr, Mr. Gomez, traveled outound on AA and returned on UA - we do not have a "mirror image" - therefore, we cannot have a round trip. Answers A,D, and E are therefore eliminated, since all reference the term "round trip".

Circle trips, too, are determined by a process of elimination. If we don't have a OW, a RT, or an open-jaw, we must, by the process of elimination, have a circle trip.

The answer is C, circle trip.

Well, enough for today!


This is an actual training question given by a major carrier. I'm told that nobody ever gets it right!






[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 01-12-2001).]

Dhammer: Going back to your two trains, the way to solve the problem is simply to turn the two trains around. Send the LA one west at 60 MPH and the Boston one east at 85 MPH. The two trains would disappear from the realm of mathematics exams forever... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I guess this trip is a bonanza for the Frequent Flyer. Also, here's my SWAG at the ticket scenario:

The travel department bought two round-trip tickets. At the travelers outbound date/time, there were no seats available on UA, and at his return date/time, there were no seats available on AA. HOWEVER, buying a RT EWR-LAX on AA, with a return in the distant future AND a RT LAX-EWR with a return in the distant future was significantly cheaper than two one-way fares. Would I ever want my corporate travel dept to do this??? No...because if I fly this route again, I could run into trouble with future tickets being deemed illegal. But hey...it's a guess...

I know I delved back into the airfares a bit, but only to justify why someone would do this. Sorry, but I can't get past the fact that, it today's world, this ticket would be EXPENSIVE. The scenarios I've had to do something like this involved ALL airlines being pretty well sold-out of seats, resulting in full-Y tickets.

I think it's a round trip, based purely on the semantics of the question posed.

The question was not what kind of itinerary, ticketing, or reservation was made. It was what kind of "trip" was made.

According to dictonary.com, a "round trip" is "A trip from one place to another and back, usually over the same route."

The definition makes no mention of carriers, fares, or permissable stopovers. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

2 Many Miles: Methinks you're reading too deeply into this. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

tvl4free: Thanks for starting a great thread! One last question: Can this ticket be booked on a "thru-fare" nowadays, or would it price out to full Y composed of two one-way fares on each of the two carriers?

FewMiles..

------------------
Unofficial Guide to AAdvantage: http://home.webflyer.com/fewmiles/AA/

So by your definition, if I fly from LAX to LGA and stop in ORD on the way out but DEN on the way back, it's not a round trip?

A circle trip always has more than one stop besides the starting point.

It would probably price as two OW's, Y or maybe two OW's which were discounted.



Do you actually mean stop OR connect in ORD and/or DEN?

Regardless of whether you mean stop OR connect, both trips would be considered as circle trips because the return is not a "mirror image" of the outbound.

The following definition deserves very close examination:

From the tarriff, I give you Rule 5:

"Circle Trip means any trip, the ultimate destination of which is the point of origin, but which includes a stop at at least ONE other point, and which is not made via the same routing in both directions."

Note that there does not have to be an EXTRA stop in addition to the turn around point:

IAD-LHR(connection)-FRA(stop)-IAD

or for example:

LAX-ORD(connection)-LGA(stop)-DEN(connection)-LAX

The most common example will still be:

A--->B(stop)--->C(stop)--->A





[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 01-14-2001).]

I have a different perspective on Point-To-Point that varies from some of the preceding responses and comments.

Point-to-point ticketing may also be Round Trip fares, among others. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

An example of Point-To-Point Round Trip ticketing would be:

1st Round Trip Ticket
LAX-ELP (Coupon 1) - Outbound
ELP-LAX (Coupon 2) - Return

2nd Round Trip Ticket
ELP-DAL (Coupon 1) - Outbound
DAL-ELP (Coupon 2) - Return

Flown in the following order:
(Creating a Point-To-Point itinerary)[*]Outbound
LAX-ELP (Coupon 1) - Outbound from 1st Round Trip Ticket)
ELP-DAL (Coupon 1) - Outbound from 2nd Round Trip Ticket)
[*]Return
DAL-ELP (Coupon 2) - Return from 2nd Round Trip Ticket)
ELP-LAX (Coupon 2) - Return from 1st Round Trip Ticket)

By the way, this example would circumvent the Wright Amendment. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Another story for another day.

Tickets are not point-to-point in and of themselves, but become point-to-point when a non-thru segment is combined with at least one other segment, thus creating the point-to-point concept. They may be issued on the same or separate ticket stock or record locator or itinerary. I recall paper tickets that when the entire itinerary was on one set of ticket stock, thru routings were designated differently than point-to-point routings, by either an "X" or an "O" between the line item listing of segments. It's important to weigh the pros and cons when considering point-to-point ticketing. And there are both!

For example, Point-to-Point Vs Thru Routings: [*]Checked Luggage
Point-to-point requires checked luggage to be claimed and rechecked at each point. Thru routings may be checked to your final destination.
[*]Pricing
Pricing requires careful consideration as it can vary greatly. No simple formula here. At times, point-to-point prevails, at other times thru routings.
[*]Segment or Mileage Accrual
This can also vary greatly depending on the airline and the routings.
With Southwest, point-to-point is an advantage in this category. However, it may not be when you factor in other considerations.
[*] Protection With Flight Delays Or Irregularities
This can be a bit tricky. With thru routings, I feel you are much better protected, especially with any flight delays along the way. With point-to-point you are expected to comply with check-in requirements at each respective point. If you are delayed along the way and do not meet the check-in rules, you could be treated differently depending on whether you are booked as a thru or point-to-point passenger.

In the end, it all boils down to a balancing act by taking everything into consideration, determining what works best for you, carefully weighing the pros and cons and doing your homework. And of course, last but not least, perusing FlyerTalk.

Of course your right,Mr Limo, you can have point-to-point RT tkts... I didn't mention that.

And the baggage issue...is a story in and of its self!

Notwithstanding that the original itinerary posted here was determined to be a cicle trip, because the outbound didn't match the return, I give you the definitions of RT,CT, and OJ from the tarriff, Rule 5:

Round Trip means any trip, the ultimate destination of which is the point of origin, and which is made via the same routing in both directions.

Circle Trip means any trip, the ultimate destination of which is the point of origin, but which includes a stop at at least one other point, and which is not made via the same routing in both directions.

Open Jaw Trip means any trip which is essentially of a round trip or circle trip nature but the outward point of departure and the inward point of arrival or the outward point of arrival and inward point of departure of which are not the same.


Well, enough for today...and perhaps enough for this thread...?

Thanks for the interesting scenarios and comments!



[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 01-14-2001).]

What is the precise definition of "routing"?

Is it
(a) just the cites that you go through
(b) the cities that you go through and the order of them (in the case of a trip involving a change in two or more locations)
(c) either a or b above as well as the carrier
(d) if the carrier matters, is it only the marketing carrier, or also the operating carrier? Specifically, what about commuter arms of major carriers?

Also, if the routing is as you specified in the first post wiht AA on the outbound and UA on the return, but the UA portion of the tarriff allowed for a stopover in ORD, and that had been exercised, would the presence of the stopover have have altered the routing?

ROUTING

THE CARRIER(S) AND/OR THE CITIES AND/OR CLASS OF SERVICE AND/OR TYPE OF AIRCRAFT VIA WHICH TRANSPORTATION IS PROVIDED BETWEEN TWO POINTS.


www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/001067.html




[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 02-27-2001).]

Actually, you can check luggage through on different tickets if it's on the same carrier. One time I bought an open jaw EWR-DFW;IAH-EWR, and then later I bought a round trip IAH-DFW-IAH (Continental), where the return flight arrives in IAH in time to catch the IAH-EWR flight (not being needed in Houston, it was cheaper to buy the roundtrip than change the first ticket). CO happily checked my bags from DFW to EWR via IAH.