Sounds like this punk has scammed a lot of people by lifting someone else's intellectual property. I haven't read the pdf yet, but if it is indeed a lot of verbatim plagarism, then MM could probably be entitled to some of this guy's ill-gotten gains. :cool:

peace,
~Ben~

Could this be the same thing ????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...250333503&rd=1

Don't all of these Charter One schemes entail going physically to banks, post offices, standing in lines, etc.?

Are any of them really free? (By "free" I mean requiring near-zero time commitment to earn the miles. I could care less about a $1-2 fee, but as much as I like 5,000 miles, that's only worth about fifty bucks in terms of 2004 dollars to me, so I'm not standing in line very long or driving all over town to get it.)

Well - I happen to know MM's real name and its not Kirt....

I think Kirt copied from MM's site though....but only some parts of it.

I just hope I get my refund without further trouble....I wrote Kirt an email within an hour of my purchase detailing how his product did not meet his advertising. I hope it doesn't have to turn into a CC dispute.

I'm new here (in fact this is my first post :) ) and I had a couple of questions about this system:

a) Since the Gift cards come in unmarked envelopes, what happens if I accidentally throw one away thinking it is yet another ubiquitous credit card offer? Can I get Charter One to replace it?

b) Is there a limit on how many of these gift cards I can get a $500 cash advance from and deposit that into my checking? i.e can I take 20 gift cards in one go and expect them to do the complete transaction for free?

I'd really like to try the system and just don't want to burn my wings :D

Thanks
Daedalus

Tell him what you think of him.
 

After downloading and then closing the pdf file, you get a request to tell him why you didn't buy his program. So tell him, already! I had fun doing so. So can you.

1) My understanding is they will cancel and refund the card, not replace it. Thus, no miles. Why go through all this hassle. Check all of your mail when you are expecting one of these cards.
2) I, personally, would feel funny doing more than 2 of these cards at a bank. I did use four the other day at the post office and they didn't blink an eye. Inasmuch as you can't get more than 10 cards a month from CharterOne, presenting 20 isn't likely.

Kirt here...
 

Hey everyone,

A few important points on this thread:

1) I'm not a thief, contrary to a few assertions in this thread of that. Marathon Man and I worked out a licensing deal to allow me to use his work.

(I paid him an upfront fee, plus I'm going to pay him piece of each sale.)

I find it rather shocking that people would jump to all sorts of conclusions without considering the logical (and much more ethical) alternatives.

2) I purchase a lot of banner advertisements on travel related websites, for which my banner ads are targeted, and for which this course is an awesome value...

It wasn't my intention for the banners to show up on this and a few other sites related directly to FF miles, I didn't know when the ad campaign started they were part of the specific ad group I had chosen.

(Go to http://tribalfusion.com, that's one of the banner networks that I use.)

My apologies, I wasn't trying to sell you something that you already knew about ;)

3) Posting the download link for the course IS a huge violaton of copyright laws, not to mention the post claiming that it was fine to sell the PDF versions of the course.

It's not.

I find it pretty ironic. ;)

In the interest of assuring you that I'm a good guy, if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to send you a digital copy of an Internet Marketing course that we sell for $197, for free, as way of patching things up.

If you're interested, just drop me a line at [email protected] and I'll forward you the link.

Thanks!

Kirt Christensen

P.S. I make a very nice (over $500k a year) income from my online ventures, in many different niches, with many different sites selling courses, advertising, shopping cart software, hosting, diamonds, paint ball guns, RC cars, electronic kits, etc... So, trust me, when it comes to selling products online, I'm no dummy ;)

this is long but you need to know...
 

I am not Kirt. My name is Jeff and I am from MA. I do however, expect this thread to become a rather messy thing in the coming weeks so here is a few MM clarifications to make it so people know where I am on the subject. Remember people, we are trying to earn miles for as little cost as possible and this gift card thing is only one current way...

Kirt stopped responding to my emails but he did contact me a while back. I did not totally understand what it all was about but I let things go anyway. Why? Because I own nothing here. I do own a URL that talks all about this gift card thing but anyone can and mine is still mine, last I checked. So I cannot really mind if someone wants what I don’t own. I did allow kirt to use my content from the site link I own that talks about GCs but I did so via emails and I did so in sort of in the same way you'd let your college roommate use your car. Go ahead dude. Take it & enjoy it. Thanks! So I own the Url I own, but do not own the way to do gift cards or anything that Kirt does. Kirt can do what he wants with gift card stuff as long as he tells it truthfully. Fine by me.

There is no agreement in terms of the kinds that one would expect from any lawyer or long legal document that suggests any biz partnership. I have nothing up my sleeve or to hide. (I never inhaled ;)). I agreed to let him use what I said and I do not think his gig causes any harm that would hurt the GC (gift card) scene. I hope he makes many miles from it somehow but if he takes money, he provides something as valuable in return! ...Just like we do! I hope he helps others too--just like we do. I sure hope no one gets ripped off in all of this.

So I do not really care what he does with the info. Just like when someone sells awards on Ebay. Go for it. Why? Because it did not cost me anything to learn the GC info or compile it for myself or others on some web site I happened to own. (It's just like Gay marraige too, if you think about it. It doesnt hurt me or my marriage to my wife, so let them have it) If a buyer wants Kirt's product, so be it. Personally, I would be extremely upfront on trying to sell something like this (which probably explains why I never can sell stuff--ha ha) but that's just me. I hate fine print or buzz words that don’t really do what they say they will. If you look at my site or anything I ever wrote, it is all upfront. That's me. Not to say that others are not, and not that Kirt is not, but those who know me best at least know I am. Being upfront is good. Sure, I try to make a buck but the long-term dollar is usually best gotten by disclosing all first. It has worked for me when I have sold anything (except that college piece of junk car).

So I have this web site, http://www.theothersideoftraveling.com and many friend of mine who are non-FT have used it. Those who are have used it. Good. I wrote it once, updated it twice and planned to add many things on travel but I know I'd have to go to an English grammar course first, don't you think?

Yeah...

Well, maybe if Kirt used it verbatim, he should have thought about how bad that might make him look (ha ha ha). But I will tell you that I just typed what was real. IT works. Who cares about the rest. It also proposes what I think is one of the better ways to handle some of the snags that people may find in doing GC activity so that in itself makes it worthy of notice. I cared about what I was saying so content wins over spelling, OK? (Maybe people in politics and big biz should care more about content than image too, don't you think? ;))

I started writing this site content for friends who wanted to know about the scheme but did not understand that there are actually entire forums dedicated to miles. Telling them just the facts was pretty much the easiest way to get them to get involved with the GC thing, I thought. After typing it in Word, I pasted it in my site which at the time was a URL that was doing nothing. I owned it but had not done anything with it yet. Then it just took off from there. I have never seen so many hits on a site and so if I were really smart, I would already have other stuff on there to drive people to because they eagerly visited for GC info! WOW! But lemme tell ya, if I have to "get responsible" on what it is I am saying on the internet, I'd better well get paid for it!

I am working on this kind of thing very very slowly. But like I said, the site contains stuff I learned about GCs and some is not mine but I say this on there somewhere. I guess Kirt said he has my info so that is good if you think about it. Give credit where credit is due if you can. If I failed to I would fix it. Also, if you gain something (like miles or money), at least try to make it so your pears can now have the same chance to gain that same thing. Also, I hate to pass blame onto others. That ain't cool so don't do it, ok? That's too much like politics again, aint it? Gee, I hope that's what earning miles and sharing ideas never reminds us all of.

I have found, however, that sharing has its limits for some. I have learned many great things in here and simply compiled them on the site to help make it easier. All the newer FTers or newest gift card people like it, but the older members may not. This whole "don’t ruin it for us" mentality makes no sense though. Why? Well for starters, the "US" is actually, well everyone, if you think about it. I mean, how did WE find out and become part of any exclusive club? We did not. Good, you got my point on that one. Let's never do that either.

If someone feels duped by this monetarily, they might wish to contact that person or company. I am not saying Kirt does this, but I know I sure haven’t. I also KNOW that by merely widening the allowance for newbies to join in has not RUINED the GC thing. Bad attitude ruins the GC thing, not me or new people. Bad attitude is what USAA said many new customers had and why they closed down people's banks accounts!

For me, there was no cost to do the things I did (making a site or typing in FT) The only cost was time and hastily typing out my interest of the subject. If Kirt or people like him found ways to make this even better or make a few honest bucks on it, all the power to him! Thus, I think no harm has been done... EXCEPT these:

1) FTers who buy it that might wish to not have just spent a hundred bucks to find out what they already know. That is not good. I would never have done it but curiosity is key in here. Well, I hope it pays off for those who did it-why they did is beyond me. But there certainly should be no blame game here because the clicking was done on only one end of the computer. The marketing of something being sold online for say, $97 may be leery, but that would be between you and that person as well if he really is guilty of anything. (I don’t think Kirt is though so if he is reading this, he knows I still think it is fine to go ahead and sell whatever. I actually forgot about it til today!)

2) FTers feeling duped in any way. Or feeling duped that "someone is making money on X where they should just be sharing it." Maybe we get a bit jealous or feel taken. Maybe just by joining all these deals and schemes and actually thinking we can somehow use or vast experience to beat them all, we are susceptible to failure in more cases than we think! We have to admit that we sometimes cause the problems we want to later crawl out of. But passing blame on any one entity or person does not always solve it for you. I TRY to remember this even when I may curse at an airline or get pissed off at some credit card company or marketer. I think some of these guys should step down from their jobs and give one to me. (yeah right)

I have made money on things like ING referrals and people saying to me that they would pay me to use the knowledge I have. But guess what: I know I am not the only one with this knowledge. There are farrr more knowledgeable people in this forum and in others than me. And they have better grammar too, as kind souls like CactusPete so truthfully but jabbingly pointed out.

Hopefully we all see the big picture. BUT if getting things like ING referrals or money here and there just for printing things that are already known is a crime, then take back all the good people who ever learned anything about gift cards or any programs that are now out there. Take back all the good people who got tickets or miles because they accessed a web site that asked for referrals or gave them tips on miles and points. any site. Any link any of us has ever made that in turn may have gotten that person an edge on travel or freebies.

That doesn’t work, does it? ...didn’t think so.

Think about it: The gift card thing and other things like it are for all. All can enjoy in any way they see fit. Sure we hope it does not end, but it is already so big that no one person (kirt, me, you, anyone) is going to be its downfall! The blame game cannot happen here because it was WSJ who let US know, remember??

This gift card thread is a gift. It could end any day. It should be exploited by us til it does. Do that in any way you can because now you are getting those thousands of miles, and one day, just like that fake ID you had back in college, it could get taken away from you because the powers that be changed the rules.

If Kirt's gig helps people get miles, then that's great, man. In fact, some people in the world only think something is legit if they pay for it (we all knows those types at work who do not know about our ways of miles and schemes, don’t we?). So someone who pays Kirt may spend $97, but now they too will get miles, and if you think about it, they WILL get back their value if they are able to plug thru the words and figure it out. Get the gift cards, get cash advances and get miles. Simple for us. And we should all go for it and get what we can out of it. If we all cannot accept the possibility that testing things out or taking chances may result in some costs on our end, then we should not participate. You spent $97 to get gift card info, I spent maybe $25 or $50 or maybe even zero. Some don’t think they should go to the teller and get the cash advance so they knowingly spend the $2 at the ATM. Others think that is a waste. And there are some people who still unknowingly BUY miles at $25-$30 per thousand and think the only way to earn them is to fly or rent a car. They think WE are all scammers or rip off artists! (think again of that stiff co-worker at his/her computer in the cubicle next to you)

As for things like miles and info, I share what I might know, it benefits me as well. I hope you all are doing the same. You too can earn things like ING referrals you know! There is no crime in taking a piece of the pie! Go to their site and find out how. That's what I did! BTW, thanks to so many of you, I have earned $200 in referrals to date. My wife earned $40. That means the new account holders at that bank have earned a combined $600! I am happy to have helped some FTers earn their $25 per. Aren’t you? Yes.

I did allow kirt to use my content but I do not expect him to do any harm with it. I really don’t know if he has but I have not read his site or info yet. I do not participate in whatever it is he sells or markets because even though my grammar may stink at times, I could probably do it myself. Eventually I will make a site that has lots of travel or miles tips (if I have the time) and maybe it will be as good as say, Pgary's site or something. Gary does not get paid to post his info but he seems to love it, has the time, the energy and the ability. He also gets referrals and probably (hopefully) a lot of positive write ups about his site. He and I have conversed about many things and though we don’t always see eye to eye on mile theory, I respect his site and his efforts. I thank him and others like him who do this sort of thing and I have gone thru his referrals to do things in the past. It is all too necessary that sites like his or mine or hey, mabe even Kirt's need to exist out there these days. If we all only went thru the airlines to get what we want, it would cost way too much. I dunno what else Kirt's link has in it but mine is only about gift cards right now. Maybe later I will put a thing on there about digital cameras or something about skiing. So other than further show how the GC gig works, if someone buys the stuff Kirt sells, that is fine by me and so if he mentions me, I thank him for it. I don’t really think one should sell GC schemes online or try to sell that which is already avail for free in many FT threads, but on the other hand, I guess I do/did too, so whatever.

I have no ongoing affiations with kirt and personally, I have 4 maintained web site links in my life and one of which is meant for the purposes of showing people like us how to do the gift cards and this GC thing is all that is up there right now and I havent touched that one in weeks. It has the method to do those ING referrals which I got from many of you.

SO in the end, I don’t know if Kirt's thing really does any harm at all. It may help if you think about it. I would not buy something for $97 that teaches me how to get airline miles but some might. Maybe when I do start writing better I will write and sell a book on this! That book can try to explain how the real problem is how people perceive things! Here's an idea:

Perception is reality, Or is it?

the theory of miles, points, promos & the psychology of people who work them

Only $19.95. - Read yours on the plane today! Earn 500 bonus miles if you buy yours before X date!

-A best seller for those saving a buck on travel! (Time Magazine)
-A great reference tool for the savvy traveler (NY Times)
-Before I read this, I was actually PAYING for travel! (Conde Naste)
-And we thought we plugged that hole! (WSJ)

Yes, it would be available at all stores and airport kiosks near you. And hey, I can dream! Why don’t more of us have sites or books on this? No time? Too busy at work? Too frazzled because you are wondering if someone who does just screwed ya? They didn’t. Hmmm, well, I got some web work to do now.

Gee, MM, this post was so long, you should have spared us and just made a link to some site with it all on it. with referral to things on there, of course.

I rest my case.

;)MM

http://www.theothersideoftraveling.com
http://LarryTheLizard.com
http://alfilipov.org
http://www.siroiselectric.com

It's amazing how many words can be used to say nothing.

Rubbish. Since when was a URL protected by copyright?

Whatever the position as between Kirt_Christensen and Marathon Man, three things stand out:-

1. The knowledge is in fact widely available for free (as it should be).
2. Kirt's first audio message, on the front page, says "I have developed a new system ...". From what I've read on this thread and others on FT, this seems to be untrue.
3. Charging money for a "course" like this comes with an implied statement that the "system" that it teaches is proprietary, confidential or otherwise not in the public domain. This also seems to be untrue - the site wants money for public domain information.

But then morality and marketing were never synonymous, were they?

does anyone actually read a post if it has more than 4 lines?

freemiles.com or whatever it was called
 

I'll pay $20 for a copy thru paypal

:rolleyes: The link to what your offering $20 for was posted earlier in this thread. Why do want to pay $20?

(If you don't want to use the above link Kirk charges $97 for because of the claimed copyright violation, why don't you use MM link he is offering for free?)

But if you really want to spend $20, send me $20 and I will send you my version of the deal I will write up.