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Simple solution. Summarize the article in your own words and post a link to the whole article for those that want more than a summary. End of story.
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Excellent suggestion BAZE.Put it in
your own words.(non-infringement of copyright) and link (more bandwidth) : )... That is what I have attempted to do(no link) since day one. And I can sleep at night without the threat of being sued for copyright infringement! To clarify: I agree the point on my posts should have BEEN focused more (Marriott thing Pi%$ me off) on copyright issues and the legalities of posting/using that information in a public forum such as FT. Not the as much the "free speech/censorship angle".. And BTW I just love to read about each of the individuals on this board. That is what makes this board interesting. And Mark. PLEASE don't ever STOP posting about your cats. And PREMEX don't ever stop posting pictures like you did re: you sitting on plane with disney shirt. And who posted that pic of the food (gooey mess)??.. This is what makes this board effective! Regards to all FT members, Mike Mahoney P.S.Thank you DJLAWMAN for the details on the new ISP provisions.It benefits us ALL. I am too up an any intelligent conversation on this topic! [This message has been edited by MIKE MAHONEY (edited 03-02-2000).] |
Interesting thread. Although I do enjoy the 'In the News' forum, it is tedious when not so relevant stuff is posted. Look at the forum for the last, say thirty days, and see how many posts have ZERO responses!! Some stuff is relevant and should be posted here, but a little bit of self-restraint so as not to post just to increase your post count would work wonders.
And as others said, anyone can go to other web-sites and get the more obscure stories like: http://www.airwise.com http://biz.yahoo.com/n/y/y0002.html [This message has been edited by leroy11 (edited 03-02-2000).] |
Originally posted by PremEx: Travel related stories In the News are fantastic. It's the NON-travel related stuff In The News or General Travel Talk that I'm asking Doc to show a little personal editorial judgement on. And by the way, I make "value judgements" every day. I would hate to see what life would be like without them.[/B] |
Again, the incredible persective(s) (and perhaps lack of such among some FTers, IMHO) manifests itself. The lack of truthfulness/ objectivity is astounding to me and to any others with evejn a hint of objectivity.
essxjay- You simply told/ordered me to "cease and desist" or else. Nothing could have been more clear. There was literally NOTHING about the NUMBER of posts. This was/is an "afterthought" at best! It's good, I guess to cover all the bases! I have always, up until very recently, simply summarized and directed FT'ers via link(s) or otherwise. I watched as others routinely violated copyright etc., for nearly a full year- which I should apparently do no longer, thanks to the heightend sense of awareness I now possess thanks to you! I had been hesitant even to use a link! One of the FT posters you noted enjoying reading commented just recently, as you may recall that "doc has learned to cut and paste." As I noted previously, a current relatively high profile case, stemming from DVD, has challenged quite effectively, it seems, the propriety of even using links. Another problem with links, aside from the often (24 hr) limited nature, is that they many are "live" and thus change as time passes. You say "bunk", yet it is on the record that a NY Times article was on a dead link and would cost $2.50 to open/recall! The poster was- you got it- essxjay- not "essexjay!" Sorry for the previous typo/mispelling. The fact is, I believe, as your friend Premex noted, that this has nothing to do with copyright! Nor is it about the material being posted. It is, in fact, IMHO, the POSTER- "me"- and not, as you lay claim- my "actions!" You profess to not be willing to stand by and watch others violate copyright, yet it is in fact precisely what you have always done from the day you arrived up 'til now! Shame on you- you should know better! Recall when Ken (kyklin) recently noted so matter of factly that he sometimes posts an entire article despite knowing it's a copyright violation and despite the fact that he knows it is wrong- but that he simply does NOT CARE!!! Perhaps that would have been an excellent time to openly threaten someone about going to the AP???!!! Even the most inastute among us can see that the "rules" are applied in a less than egalitarian fashion! Just a bit of candor, along with a little respect and tolerance of others goes a long way! THERE ARE OTHER PERSPECTIVES OTHER THEN YOUR OWN. If any FTer, no less many do not like my posts, I'm sorry. That's a fact. It's the risk in posting! Yet, various FTer's have commented as DJlawman just did, that no one cares. Again, I must be the only one who can NOT read others minds and also the only one who unfortunately misreads posts. What I see is a handful of vocal FTer's who apparently feel that they rule by fiat. This group takes every opportunity to harass/flyme me under other false handles as well as their own real ones! I'm a fairly well informed individual. I see alot of things I already know. I see quite a bit that I don't care for and/or don't agree with! Or don't like. So what? I just move on. I suppose that makes me silly. Well, I'm learning albeit slowly. Perhaps I can soon attack with venom! Then I too can grace the board with scurillious aspersions to the mutual benefit of all! Is that whats wanted? I think not! In the interest of keeping peace and in direct specific response to your threat, I say I'm not posting any more news items. So you now apply the term "martyr!" Having said all this, you are right, silence is golden! I WILL practice more of it. PremEx is correct in that I've promised to show restraint and done poorly in that regard. Again, while I don't necessarily agree entirely, thanks for the polite reminder. Yet, while "right," whatever one wants to say or think, that's their point of view. It does not, however, make it necesarily right for EVERYONE, IMHO! This is in sharp contrast to a rule or law such as the copyright issue where, as I plainly noted above, I was wrong! Nonetheless, I will continue to respect everyone else and their rights even while some FTers hurl thinly veiled insults and profess to never be insulting! My view is that this entire fiasco should have been handled somwhat differently- perhaps alot differently! YOU could have easily been more fair and shown some RESTRAINT. Unfortunatly, IMHO, you've been lured into a kind of cabal which makes it their business to harass/ flyme me at every opportunity. FWIW- In ant case, let's let bygones be bygones and move on from this ridiculous distraction. I already have! I've already said FAR too much. Again, with apologies for the rant, Mark PS I dont have the energy to go back and put in HAPPY FACES. Just try to imagine them, they are there in spirit!!! |
There are some very intersesting points being made here, so I'll drop my two cents in the bucket --
My real heartburn with this issue is the public nature of the "CEASE AND DESIST" order that was issued---it should have been a private matter or the concern should have been directed to the good folks at FT--- I do not want to participate in a "community" where individuals feel the need to dictate "community standards or morality" --- again this goes back to the public nature of the warning - I feel that using the word "warning" is a bit euphemistic- let's face it, it was a threat to go to the AP bureau chief --- one that I will not comment on the maturity of -- certainly one could counter that they would approach AP headquarters and question whether the person issuing the order had the authority to speak for AP or to engage AP's name in such a threatening public fashion --- to do such would only send us futher into the morass which we are headed --- I love a spirited debate, as much as I love the personal touches that many FT'ers add to their posts --- it lightens the stress of frequent business travel, adds a human touch, and personalizes FT -- This is fairly simple --- if certain posts, topics, and/or contributors upset individuals - DON'T PLAY - bypass those areas and or individuals --- there is no need to attempt to "disgrace" or punish them publicly -- It is a simple fact that there are several members who don't like how much FT has grown -- so, as with any board of size and substance, cliques tend to form -- the same people responding to the same people over and over and certain members ostracized or excluded -- and you rarely see the cliques respond to new members or offering advice to the "newbies" until they have "MEMBER" status or XXXX number of posts --- This happens and I hope that it does not proliferate -- Which brings to me my final point --- the potential that FT'ers will move their "policing" to other arenas such as the coupon connection --- I have really enjoyed helping FT'ers who have needed upgrades, coupons, etc. and I feel that I have been generous BUT I will "cease and desist" helping others if a coupon gestapo comes into existence etc. -- Additionally, there have been some very forthright FT'ers who have shared ways "to beat the system" and their advice is valuable to all of us --- I just shudder at the thought that one of our community would "run and tell" -- let's remember that airlines take their rules and regulations as seriously as AP and some of what we discuss isn't necessarily kosher --- I hope that we use this debate to contribute to growing in a positive fashion - kazman |
essxjay - where do you get off typing such stupid and trivial threats to doc on a public board? do you not have anything better to do? get a life! this is simply a chat board where we exchange ideas, stories and NEWS...this is so harmless it is unreal.
also, the board wasn't 'news' it was on 'general traveltalk'....where i have reposted the entire AP article along with a link to the where i 1st read it....let the lawyers find me... dorian |
kazman, i wish i had the time and thoughts to write such a post as your's above....well written! i agree 100%.
dorian |
I respectfully disagree with djlawman. It is not in my interest either way if the board keeps running or not. It is a great resource and I'm glad Inside Flyer hosts it. If it shuts down, either from Inside Flyer or an outside force such as the law, no skin off my back. I'd just go somewhere else. The Internet will survive and another resource will take its place.
Unless I signed a contract with InsideFlyer which included this bulletin board, I have no interest in it either way. They are king, queen, god, whatever. If they are worried about lawsuits, they should set rules and regulations, tell all of us including doc what to post and what not to post. Otherwise, this community moderation is a crock. nathan detroit has tried the same sort of thing and we see how that went. [This message has been edited by dg1 (edited 03-02-2000).] |
You do have to admit: FT looks more and more like a typical internet bulletin board every day (at least outside the specific airline forums) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
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Kazman, I don't agree 100%
and you rarely see the cliques respond to new members or offering advice to the "newbies" until they have "MEMBER" status or XXXX number of posts Care to be more specific of just who makes up the "clique" that ignores "newbies?" I would really like to know, as I've been here for some time and I've never noticed it. I'm very, very sorry you feel this way. And very sorry I had to take this public and off topic, but you do not list an email address in your profile. [This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 03-02-2000).] |
It's sad http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif And my day was going so well.
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Originally posted by doc: There was literally NOTHING about the NUMBER of posts. This was/is an "afterthought" at best! It's good, I guess to cover all the bases! I watched as others routinely violated copyright etc., for nearly a full year- which I should apparently do no longer, thanks to the heightend sense of awareness I now possess thanks to you! Another problem with links, aside from the often (24 hr) limited nature, is that they many are "live" and thus change as time passes. The fact is, I believe, as your friend Premex noted, that this has nothing to do with copyright! Nor is it about the material being posted. Yet, various FTer's have commented as DJlawman just did, that no one cares. YOU could have easily been more fair and shown some RESTRAINT. |
Originally posted by essxjay: We've tried to be fair with you. We've asked you politely to post in moderation and have indulged you when you said you'd tone it down. How many posts is "post in moderation"? |
PremEx -- you don't need to agree with me --
that is exactly my point --- we are a community of individuals with differences of opinion on a number of issues -- it is not for any of us to dictate to the other what he or she can or cannot "say" --we are ultimately responsible for our actions -- I cherish the fact that you disagree and have posted that fact -- it helps to make my point -- I do not take your posting in any negative way, therefore I welcome the public nature of it -- you are not attempting to regulate what I say , you simply disagree --- That is healthy and wonderful --- as for finger pointing -- SORRY, but I have no use in trying to define a clique ---I see it one way and you see it another - the joys of free speech -- I need not define or defend my thoughts, nor must you --- However, I would refer you to lengthy posts in the Coupon Connection in which there is a long discussion of "whom to trust" -- this thread certainly casts a disparaging view on low posters and that thread's very existence is validation enough of my point of view -- the correct answer to that particular question, in my opinion, is ----- we should trust everybody, regardless of number of posts, until they prove themselves not worthy of our trust -- I think that you and I can agree that some posters in that discussion would not agree with me and believe that "low posters" should be viewed with suspicion --- if that is the case --- well, then, that is exclusionary and "cliquish" in nature -- I prefer not to judge on such merits -- In fact I prefer not to judge, thus my distaste for a public display of threatening behavior that I commented on - kazman |
As I've noted before, Samantha, if I may address you as such, or essxjay, if you prefer, POST WHAT YOU LIKE, WHEN YOU LIKE! That's the point. Just please be civil!
One point of clarification, the "no one cares" above was a reference to my posts, NOT to your copyright issue! Yet the thread seems to have metamorphasised somehow! See, it's a bit confusing when we mix apples and oranges! DJlawman commenting AGAINST regulating/ moderating/"policing" FT noted"...people who seem to have nothing else to do with their lives than post every thing they can find on FlyerTalk, whether anyone else 'cares' about it or not." Thanks for the charitable comment! Needless to say, I'm not a great fan of everyone on the boards either. I try to refrain, however, from such relatively negative phraseology, even when Im being flymed/attacked- though not always 100% successfully! And I never said PremEx or anyone speaks for you. Quite the contrary, rather that he is a friend who notes that like I, who clearly are not a friend, that he feels it is NOT at all about copyright, as you have claimed. Recall that you immediately burst into your "just the tip of the iceberg" rant in the original SAA thread! You continue to seem to fail to appreciate that I HAVE tried to "satisfy" you and your friends on one extreme, as well as all the other FT'ers at the other extreme. Recall previous discussions regarding thes issues. You can research the threads if you like. Lastly, I'm trying to avoid further confrontation, not induce proliferation of it! Perhaps you can REread my former post: "Again, the incredible persective(s) (and perhaps lack of such among some FTers, IMHO) manifests itself. The lack of truthfulness/ objectivity is astounding to me and to any others with evejn a hint of objectivity. essxjay- You simply told/ordered me to "cease and desist" or else. Nothing could have been more clear. There was literally NOTHING about the NUMBER of posts. This was/is an "afterthought" at best! It's good, I guess to cover all the bases! I have always, up until very recently, simply summarized and directed FT'ers via link(s) or otherwise. I watched as others routinely violated copyright etc., for nearly a full year- which I should apparently do no longer, thanks to the heightend sense of awareness I now possess thanks to you! I had been hesitant even to use a link! One of the FT posters you noted enjoying reading commented just recently, as you may recall that "doc has learned to cut and paste." As I noted previously, a current relatively high profile case, stemming from DVD, has challenged quite effectively, it seems, the propriety of even using links. Another problem with links, aside from the often (24 hr) limited nature, is that they many are "live" and thus change as time passes. You say "bunk", yet it is on the record that a NY Times article was on a dead link and would cost $2.50 to open/recall! The poster was- you got it- essxjay- not "essexjay!" Sorry for the previous typo/mispelling. The fact is, I believe, as your friend Premex noted, that this has nothing to do with copyright! Nor is it about the material being posted. It is, in fact, IMHO, the POSTER- "me"- and not, as you lay claim- my "actions!" You profess to not be willing to stand by and watch others violate copyright, yet it is in fact precisely what you have always done from the day you arrived up 'til now! Shame on you- you should know better! Recall when Ken (kyklin) recently noted so matter of factly that he sometimes posts an entire article despite knowing it's a copyright violation and despite the fact that he knows it is wrong- but that he simply does NOT CARE!!! Perhaps that would have been an excellent time to openly threaten someone about going to the AP???!!! Even the most inastute among us can see that the "rules" are applied in a less than egalitarian fashion! Just a bit of candor, along with a little respect and tolerance of others goes a long way! THERE ARE OTHER PERSPECTIVES OTHER THEN YOUR OWN. If any FTer, no less many do not like my posts, I'm sorry. That's a fact. It's the risk in posting! Yet, various FTer's have commented as DJlawman just did, that no one cares. Again, I must be the only one who can NOT read others minds and also the only one who unfortunately misreads posts. What I see is a handful of vocal FTer's who apparently feel that they rule by fiat. This group takes every opportunity to harass/flyme me under other false handles as well as their own real ones! I'm a fairly well informed individual. I see alot of things I already know. I see quite a bit that I don't care for and/or don't agree with! Or don't like. So what? I just move on. I suppose that makes me silly. Well, I'm learning albeit slowly. Perhaps I can soon attack with venom! Then I too can grace the board with scurillious aspersions to the mutual benefit of all! Is that whats wanted? I think not! In the interest of keeping peace and in direct specific response to your threat, I say I'm not posting any more news items. So you now apply the term "martyr!" Having said all this, you are right, silence is golden! I WILL practice more of it. PremEx is correct in that I've promised to show restraint and done poorly in that regard. Again, while I don't necessarily agree entirely, thanks for the polite reminder. Yet, while "right," whatever one wants to say or think, that's their point of view. It does not, however, make it necesarily right for EVERYONE, IMHO! This is in sharp contrast to a rule or law such as the copyright issue where, as I plainly noted above, I was wrong! Nonetheless, I will continue to respect everyone else and their rights even while some FTers hurl thinly veiled insults and profess to never be insulting! My view is that this entire fiasco should have been handled somwhat differently- perhaps alot differently! YOU could have easily been more fair and shown some RESTRAINT. Unfortunatly, IMHO, you've been lured into a kind of cabal which makes it their business to harass/ flyme me at every opportunity. FWIW- In ant case, let's let bygones be bygones and move on from this ridiculous distraction. I already have! I've already said FAR too much. Again, with apologies for the rant, Mark PS I dont have the energy to go back and put in HAPPY FACES. Just try to imagine them, they are there in spirit!!!" |
I need not define or defend my thoughts, nor must you A thought or idea is nothing unless it is grounded in logic and is able to be antithisized into a synthesis. And this is my point in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/002351.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif [This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 03-02-2000).] |
Kazman thanks for your response. I appreciate your opinons. Now one of my own. In regards to you comment
However, I would refer you to lengthy posts in the Coupon Connection in which there is a long discussion of "whom to trust" -- this thread certainly casts a disparaging view on low posters and that thread's very existence is validation enough of my point of view -- the correct answer to that particular question, in my opinion, is ----- we should trust everybody, regardless of number of posts, until they prove themselves not worthy of our trust. And that thread certainly does not address your opinion that: you rarely see the cliques respond to new members or offering advice to the "newbies" until they have "MEMBER" status or XXXX number of posts Next... PG wrote: Who is the "we" referred to here? How many posts is "post in moderation"? Answer me one question. If I were to post today a hundred posts on various non-travel related items to say General Travel Talk, would you object? I'm not referring to anything about anyone else here. I'm asking if for whatever reason I decided to post large numbers of whatever I wanted here, based on my personal judgment, good or bad, you would not object? Imagine clicking on In The News and some real news item has been pushed back to page three because I have filled it up with stories I just feel like posting. You would not object to that? I would like to know your answer. Because it's the same thing. Just using a different quantity in the example. It's about the poster using their personal judgment to decide what is appropriate in this forum. Judgment or "moderation" cannot be measured or numbered in an accountant's ledger. You know that! But a community has an obligation to not just let anyone do anything they want. They have to let that person know how they feel. Otherwise you have anarchy. Whole societies are built on guidelines and peer pressure. There's a reason for that. You can't legislate everything. You can't have a cop on every corner. Not everything can be put down in black and white. I'm just one of the community letting someone know that I don't appreciate some of what they do. Don't try to make it anymore than that. Thank You. [This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 03-02-2000).] |
Sir Winston Churchill once said, "A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."
Jeez, I hope that isn't Copyrighted. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ------------------ "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own." |
Come on PG. Why are you insisting on playing a numbers game? You know as well as I there is no absolute number and that's not what's being suggested here. Answer me one question. If I were to post today a hundred posts on various non-travel related items to say General Travel Talk, would you object? I'm not referring to anything about anyone else here. I'm asking if for whatever reason I decided to post large numbers of whatever I wanted here, based on my personal judgment, good or bad, you would not object? As I mentioned before, the ruckus is not about non-travel items being posted. The ruckus is about travel related items which is posted. I do not know why you keep coming back to talking about non-travel items. Imagine clicking on In The News and some real news item has been pushed back to page three because I have filled it up with stories I just feel like posting. You would not object to that? I would like to know your answer. Because it's the same thing. Just using a different quantity in the example. It's about the poster using their personal judgment to decide what is appropriate in this forum. Judgment or "moderation" cannot be measured or numbered in an accountant's ledger. You know that! But a community has an obligation to not just let anyone do anything they want. They have to let that person know how they feel. Otherwise you have anarchy. Whole societies are built on guidelines and peer pressure. There's a reason for that. You can't legislate everything. You can't have a cop on every corner. Not everything can be put down in black and white. I'm just one of the community letting someone know that I don't appreciate some of what they do. Don't try to make it anymore than that. Thank You. [This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-02-2000).] |
kokonutz --- I tried to take the matter up with Mr. Hegel -- BUT, he didn't have an e-mail address listed in his profile !!!!! Besides, he is only a junior member with one post --- AND THAT ONE POST WAS COPYRIGHTED INFORMATION !!!!! On the subject of noise, I have but one question, IF A TREE FALLS IN THE WOODS AND THERE IS NO ONE AROUND TO HEAR IT>>>>>>>>>you know the rest
Enjoying a beautiful day here in my hometown of LAS - I will now CEASE AND DESIST - kazman |
(Seeing that others have expressed my views more eloquently and that this is going nowhere fast, I choose to delete this post.)
[This message has been edited by kyklin (edited 03-02-2000).] |
PG, I see. You have clearified your position for me perfectly. Thank You.
[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 03-02-2000).] |
I remember an old saying. "Praise in public, reprimend in private".
If you have an issue with someone, e-mail them. If they have no e-mail in their profile make a simple post and say you have something you would like to discuss with them and you would like them to e-mail you. If they don't e-mail you then you are probably wasting your breath anyway. |
dingo,
Actually, I do work for an AP-member news service, and am well aware of the applicable copyright and state libel laws. I surf FT on my own time. Dorian, My warning shot was intended to serve two purposes: First, to stem the flow of posts that violate Flyertalk's Terms of Service, which each one of us has agreed to; and second, to plead for some quality-control of content, if not some restraint in the quantity. Suppose Jane Costello of the WSJ, for example, were to mention in casual convertion to her editors that their paper's content is reprinted here verbatim? Do you realize how fast that information would go up the chain of command and to the paper's legal liaison? Do any of you really want to risk putting Randy in the inenviable position of having to deal with their lawyers? Do you realize that he would most certainly be required to turn over names and email addresses of copyright violators if it came to that? If you want your very own letter of cease and desist from a attorney representating a news organization, fine. I don't think you do. I've seen cc:'s of such letters posted in our newsroom from time to time, and they are pretty blunt about the repurcusions of ignoring such a request. I just figured the forewarning might be better coming from an informed member within the Flyertalk community. [This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 03-02-2000).] |
Gee, Ken- what's wrong? You don't like being criticised? Sad to hear. VERY surprising. I'm sorry. Funny thing, neither do I!! Astounding to hear!!!
Yet, I purposely declined to use the obnoxious "quote" style of using your very own words against you, as routinely applied by some FTers vs others. And I do not want to be offensive to you or anyone. Also, can you distingush between being criticised for ones actions and personal attacks? Yes, I noted an article that you posted verbatim, thus violating the copyright law SIX months ago! All I did was apply the words of another FTer, a friend of yours, to your post, where it applies without question. That is it! Again, if you don't like it, I'm sorry, as I said. The very point is that it is six months old!!! It's been going on for as long as I know of!! I should go back a year! I did the same to another flagrant violation: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000630.html This was done to illustrate/highlight a point that some other FT'ers refuse to acknowlege, NOT to punish or highlight anyones indiscretions. Regarding your contention that "Clearly, 'you'(r) offense and mine are not equal," I fail to see your point once again. I NEVER said they were!! Even if they are, in fact, and Im not saying so now. It's irrelevant, IMHO. As I noted after your inaccurate assertions posted in that thread, offenders are offenders and there are also repeat offenders. So what? Seems to me that there are many differences such as the fact that I've admitted the error/wrongdoing. Seems I'm alone in that regard. Another correction if you don't mind, it was essxjay who said "silence is golden" and I agreed with her. Yes, I will practice more of it, but reserve my right to defend myself and I always will. And be forewarned, I can talke off the kid gloves if absoulutely necessary. Thanks for your comment"...and you cannot stop posting can you?" Your psychoanaylsis is worth its cost- NOTHING! "I am not telling you to stop nor limit your right to do so..." You are doing precisely that, it would seem, despite what you say. "but apparently you are just making promises you cannot keep. Clearly you love getting the attention." Whatever you say Ken! Yes, I initiated this fiasco, of course. It's all my fault! Please be serious. As I noted above, your petty psychoanaylsis is worth its cost- NOTHING! But please continue to provide it if you so choose- better though perhaps in OMNI!! "Finally Doc, I would strongly advise you to stop your personal attacks aginst me" here : Once again, your youth and perhaps somewhat intemperate personality apparently induces another misstep. Do you think "insult(s)" is/are a one way street? It's NOT the case, I assure you. I would strongly advise you to stop your personal attacks aginst me! As you other FTers have so often said, I stand by my words. I will defend myself vigorously against this nonsense! BTW- I guess we are using last names now? I guess you thought people might be confused using doc or Mark. Or perhaps you were just trying to be overly respectful. If the later is the case, you should address me as Dr. then but I'd personallly prefer Mark or doc- if that matters to you! Shall I adress you by your last name as well? |
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arturo fed up wiff thes werds. an they jus awl werds. arturo redy fore sum axshun an axshun es fore awl of us two lik each othr an postie en moderashun, knot jus "cut and paste" postie. thes cocha-del-toro goin on hear es weigh b-low the IQ of thes folks. evin b-low arturos IQ. kno won goin to wen thes beeg lllllloooonnnnnn postie kontest, sew, arturo sey putt a lock on et an klose thes thred, pleese talkflier webperson!!!
------------------ loving, caring, honest, intelligent, empathetic, creative, and giving. |
What passion, all. Intent goes a long way with me, and until someone can convince me that Doc is trying to greedily self-promote or enrich, I am going to assume that his intentions are honorable. Is it such a great leap of faith to think that Doc believes that what he is doing is of value to FTers. And, while all of his posts will never appeal to all of the people, some of his posts will, I suspect, appeal to a healthy minority of the community.
Self policing is an oxymoron when applied to a posting Board. Policing suggests authority and power, as well as a paramilitary hierarchy. Self policing equals anarchy. With the exception of Randy, each poster has exactly the same amount of power. So, unless we want to charter a democracy to vote people in and/or out, the only form of self policing that would work would be a filter that an individual could use to freeze out a specific poster. Copyright scholars have commented. Clearly, if the New York Times issued a cease and desist, all bets would be off. But the Times can protect their own interests. Until then, if we censor Doc, then how can we not censor somebody else? I equate Doc's postings with pornography, and not in a bad way. While it is there, nobody is putting a gun to your head to partake. Doc carefully titles his posts so that you know what you're getting into. 85% of it is of no use to me, but I don't begrudge the 30 seconds it takes to scan topics. The knock on Doc regarding getting a life is ungentlemanly. It's his time. So, while an auto-da-fe may be appealing, I don't think that Doc deserves to get flamed Maid of Orleans style. |
Ok, ... a follow-up
On a person level, some people have a problem with the news posts on here. That's fine...seams that some people were just venting. Reading about the copyright statements... As someone brought up, online articles are often real-time a do not always remain at their link, so it is not always practical to simple give a link, although that is probably the best way to give people a way of reading an article. So, if in my reading, I find an article, I will copy it to my own homepage and then provide a link to it, that way it will be my own personal copy and it will not be in violation of copyright. I think everyone will agree that this should be acceptable? or not? |
Kokonutz posts, and I quote (to avoid violating any copyright laws http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
You do have to admit: FT looks more and more like a typical internet bulletin board every day (at least outside the specific airline forums) And that really is sad! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif It's why I won't even go near anything travel related over AOL or other places. Such dribble. Now on this issue of people only helping those helping others: I disagree. The problem is there is so MUCH material here and so little time it is often difficult to answer EVERY question and concern. I do try to help people, whether a new poster or a seasoned veteran. Sometiems if it's an old question I leave it to soemone else to give it a shot! (Hey! for example it was responding to a newbee that I found one of my bestest friends on F-T: wanderlust.) What PremEx did was good with teh U-A site. In fact two of friends NON Flyertalk members got some valuable information from it. And I don't see this cliquish nature that some members are accused of being part of (I've been accused of being part of this alleged clique by some people.) Well if there is one, where's my membership card and what's the secret handshake? Guess what folks? the outsiders like some of my non-traveling friends think WE ARE ALL PART OF THE CLIQUE CALLED FLYERTALK!!! So congratuattions, we are ALL IN IT and in it good (including the newbees!) |
essxjay, to be honest, i don't care 1% what jane costello tells anyone in her office...i will continue to post AND read copyrighted material here on FT.
Is this the 'beginning of the end'? Sure seems that way to me. I do agree somewhat with the 'clique' comment regarding FT. I really believe denying this 'feature' is short sighted...it is natural for such groups to form. It may be negative or positive...I don't know which...but it exists. Dorian |
Catman, a duplicate membership card is on it's way out to you.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif |
Sincere apologies to PremEx.
[This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-03-2000).] |
Accepted. Thank You.
[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 03-03-2000).] |
I never received the FIRST ALLEGED CLIQUE MEMBERSHIP CARD!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Dorian, Yes groups do develop (I REFUSE TO CALL THEM CLIQUES) but at least in my experinence I have many groups of friends from this board, all I like (no love... love as family) for different reasons. and only one really bad experience. You are free to post. My concern is that one say SOMEONE is going to cough up a hairball over posting copyrighted material. I know I would if my pinkonline travel stuff ended up here without attribution. It's easy to write a short summary of a story like: "A United Airlines Premier Executive is finding himself wooed by the competition. Here's the story at <A HREF="http://www.thestoryofmeow.com"" TARGET=_blank>www.thestoryofmeow.com"</A> So wait it out Dorian and things will ease once the focus shifts to other things: like "what's going on at the CATMANDO 2" (just need a laptop for real time updates!) |
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Dorian,
You've got e-mail Baze |
It's still a free country. I for one find no problem with doc posting 10,000 times. I find some very informative and bypass those I don't. Telling him to reduce his postings is getting awfully close to censorship. I want the right to see everything he and others thinks is important and don't want someone else to affect my right to see and read what I want.
Also troubling are statements that include the word "we". Has someone been appointed to speak for me? Please let me know. I would have a BIG problem with this. Finally, I have a suggestion, besides being nice to each other. Perhaps Randy could included a function that would allow individual viewers to block out all postings from posters that they don't wish to view. This would seem to solve a lot of problems. |
Years back when I ran a BBS (pre-internet), I put wrote a neat feature called Squelch. A user could squelch people he didn't care to hear from. Pretty nifty.
Even better was the WEENIE class. Anyone designated as a weenie was automatically on everyone's squelch list EXCEPT HIS. So a weenie would post a message, and he could read it, but no one else could. Eventually he'd go away as everyone was ignoring him. I'm not suggesting "weenie" class here, but a squelch could be handy for some folks who seem to have personality conflicts with other members here. Don't like hearing about my kids, squelch me. Don't want to hear of FT's unofficial feline mascots, squelch Catman. That isn't censorship, it is exercising a personal choice to ignore something/someone. I suspect it is WAY too much coding though, and I know that FT doesn't do too much with that. Possible suggestion for next version of UBB?? ------------------ "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own." |
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