wow, you guys are really impressive... if alive today, professor ’iggins would have been real proud as well!

(hey tribeflyer, i have apostrophy! ’’’’ your method worked! thank you.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)

while gaining knowledge of travel, i have also improved my english considerably by reading the posts here in FT, thanks y’all!
...and i am not worthy (with arms stretched straight out, bowing repeatedly) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by belle3388 (edited 07-28-2000).]

Honu, I couldn't agree more and I have tried to say much the same thing to the grammer police that crop up from time to time in various threads. Language is not statict, it is a living and vibrant reflection of past and present culture. Thank you for making the point far better than I ever could. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

honu:

I have to agree, from a strictly linguistic point of view, "you guys" is not a mostruosity. However, language is necessarily tied to culture - one does not exist without the other. Insofar as this is true, it certainly is up to you and me (and Samuel Johnson, and l'Academie Francaise) to determine what "worms" its way into the language. A language only "lives" to the extent that we let it. There are many vulgar terms that have existed in the same form for centuries. Those who are given to using such words would (in most cases - Hillary Clinton being a probable exception) never dream of using them in front of their families or in mixed company.

A teenager who feels it's proper to address eighty year old couples as "you guys" when linguistically accurate phrases such as "you folks" are as easy to use and could never be deemed offensive, has simply failed to learn the standards of her culture.

I too, am fascinated by the way language breathes. But I am equally fascinated by the way culture breathes. When one of these steps on the toes of the other, we ought to do our best (for both their sakes) to step in and break it up.

Rudi, I am so jealous of people like you with a mastery of several languages and an obvious interest in words and language.

Here's another method that worked for me when I was trying to get umlauts on a standard American keyboard (where such things don't exist):

If your program is like most, it allows "copy" and "paste". Go to a posting that has the character you want, highlight it, and copy. Then paste the character either in a separate document (which you can save to copy from for future use) or into the posting you're composing.

Works like a charm. If you'll tell me what you need, I'll try to post it for you to copy.

ä ö ü é è â Œ œ Á å ñ µ Ë È Î Í Ù Ú Ô Ò Ÿ ª º ø Ø * ÿ Æ æ

Good points protomartyr, but it begs the question: just who is the arbiter of culture? One man's rubbish is another man's art, or, in this case, one man's insult is another man's sign of respect.

The instance of the waiter addressing the elderly group as "you guys" could have been as formal as it gets for him or her, or even a well intentioned attempt to bridge the generation gap. In addition, in some cultures familiarity is a sign of respect and a more distant and formal comportment is seen as insulting.

[This message has been edited by Mvic (edited 07-30-2000).]

thanks, counsellor, but i am not able to copy and paste while in FT...
is there a tutorial anywhere for technical questions such as this? (how to’s)

Your close. It's actually a contraction of ya all. So it would be you take care, ya hear? Although time is so precious most leave off the first you (or ya) and substitute a small nod to indicate the desired party.

Freefaller12k
(Transplanted Southerner)

We are using a website at work that translates different lanuages for a project. It even has a 'world' keyboard. http://bablefish.altavista.com/translate.dyn

Sometimes, "you all" (or "y'all") is used in the singular sense. When so used, my "suthin'" friends attest that the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all". http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

"Y'all" is never singular; it is, after all, a contraction of "you all."

2nd person plural - objective case - "y'all"
2nd person plural - nominative case - "y'all"
2nd person plural - posessive case - "y'alls"

Newself - no joy on the link???

Y'all is ALWAYS plural! It only used singularly by ignorant Yankees trying to fake a southern accent!

(and all y'all is redundant, but sometimes used for emphasis like "ALL of you all!")

Mac

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Via con Dios!

When I lived in Houston, they used y'all indiscriminately for singular and plural. I guessed it must have been a Du and Sie type situation, but sort of backwards (singular "you" used only for emphasis or in formal situations).