Whose property are FF miles? Please help!
 

Does anyone know if there are any governments, (local, state, or federal), which have a policy/rule/law which makes frequent flyer miles paid for with PUBLIC MONEY, to be the property of that government or government agency, and NOT the property of the earner/member?? ANY help greatly appreciated!
Jim

The Federal government does not let its employees keep the miles. I base that on the conversation I had with a seatmate that worked for the Justice Dept (Dept of Corrections) and on a 'very good friend' who is retired military. Even when flying paid commericial they did not get to keep the miles. Hope that helps.

That's correct. My brother-in-law works with the U.S. Forest Service and has told me that because the government get special preferred rates with the airlines for its employees, no frequent flier miles are earned on tickets issued to government agencies paid for with public monies. Glad I don't work in a job with the government where I'm having to fly all the time!

First of all, these policies vary by division of government and vary by local, state and Federal. Currently the governement has a broad policy that miles belong to the governement and only a few of the departments actually enforce this. Currently FDA, SEC and others capture the miles of their employees to use on business travel. However, airlines do give miles away to those traveling on governement airfares. Some departments have tried it and given up for the ability to manage it, while others are real stringent, such as some of the
Atomic Commission departments like the Livermore Lab, or the Tennessee Valley Authority. There is a provision in the governement policy that states that miles may be used for upgrades on long haul flights. I do know of many governement employees that have enjoyed several free vacations to Hawaii with tax payer miles. Also, there have been a few cases whereby a governement employee who tried to return his miles to the governement after retiring from service was refused the gesture because they didn't know what to do with them. There are a few states which half heartedly try to manage the miles of state employees, which would ideally include those at state run universities and college athletes, etc. This practice is not widespread and i think only South Dakota is still active in this effort, with Floria and others having "crafted" a legal opinion from the State Sttorney General that capturing miles fo state employess would be illegal since it would require a "second" account to manage just government miles and second accounts aren't allowed by the airlines. Rather weak arguement but it leaves the miles in the hands of the state employees. In the case of the government, it has censored a few employees for "Embezzlement of government property" but those are rare cases. In any of this, there is usally a gap between practive and policy........

Hope this helps.

Although Federal Govt asserts ownership rights on employee miles earned on federal travel, airlines do not recognize that assertion. However, employees are employees and subject to employer rules. Federal Govt employees may use FF miles earned on Govt paid travel (ref: FTR and JTR sites' FAQs) for free tickets for subsequent official govt trips or upgrades to biz class (only--never first) when specifically authorized and then only when the flight time exceeds fourteen (yes, 14) hours. And in the latter case of a flight time greater than 14 hours, ONLY when the employee must start work IMMEDIATELY upon arrival (no rest period of any amount) at the business location. Employees who do other than the above are risking their pensions. Removal from the Federal Service is an employer option. Enforcement and interpretation nuances vary with organizations but the Federal Travel Regulations apply to all Federal Employees.

It is true that the federal government has very restrictive rules about using FF miles. They also seem to have a phobia about any government employee flying First Class. One thing which was not mentioned was that if an individual's account has miles from personnel flying and government flying, Uncle states that all of the miles belong to him, even though the majority are personnel.

FWIW, I have never heard of anyone chastised for using FF benefits.

It is true that the federal government has very restrictive rules about using FF miles. They also seem to have a phobia about any government employee flying First Class. One thing which was not mentioned was that if an individual's account has miles from personnel flying and government flying, Uncle states that all of the miles belong to him, even though the majority are personnel.

FWIW, I have never heard of anyone chastised for using FF benefits.

My father who is a retired Foregin Service Officer never could understand the rules against First Class Travel. In the old days that was the only way you flew. They changed the rules in the 70's and nobody is allowed to fly First Class. The only exception is when a new US Ambassador arrives at his/her post and when he/her departs the post for the last time. For all other travel he/she is required to sit back in coach. This does not make a good statement having the offical U.S. representative delegated back to coach. This says a lot about the bean counters back in D.C.

Uncle Sam does not want anybody to think that their tax dollars are used for someone living "high on the hog". It doesn't matter that quite often, we are spending our own time flying for him - after normal working hours, weekends, holidays, etc. and such.

Interesting information Tango. The new U. S. Ambassador to Peru was in First Class when we flew down there a couple of years ago, we were in First too, complimtary Gold Elite and companion upgrades on our $400 cheapo RT introductory fares on Continental.

Thanks for your replies...the reason I asked the question was in my town of West Hollywood, California, I've uncovered a practice where some City employees were going out of their way to take certain airlines, usually at HIGHER cost than necessary, to earn FF miles. I have no problem with that if I'm paying for the ticket, but people traveling with the Public's money shouldn't be allowed to do this. I think the only way to stop this kind of taxpayer waste is to prohibit it, and enforce that policy. Jim

Minor point: When I worked for the Federal Government in the 1980s, Cabinet members and certain other very high-ranking officials could fly first-class "for security considerations." Slightly lower-ranking officials REGULARLY have their staffs contact airline government-relations offices to arrange free upgrades. The airlines won't do this for a civil servant, but they will -- or at least would then -- for political appointees who aren't high enough to be entitled for security reasons.

Bruce

Foreign Service Officers these days flying on official travel are "required" to maintain records indicating which miles are the government's and which are personally owned. Of course, most people don't actually do this. Miles earned on official travel can be used to upgrade other official flights, according to the criteria already mentioned. I think there may be a few other exceptions (if you are flying overnight and expected to work the next morning?), but without looking it up, I don't know off the top of my head.

Of course, if employment by the government comes to an end, there is little the government can do to take back any miles earned on official travel, and, as far as I am aware, there is no procedure in place for FSO's to return miles to the department.

MSD

DoggyDaddy stated:
This harkens me back to when I was a temp employee with a city government many years ago. You had to pay for coffee (or join the coffee "club") because the city didn't want the employees to have that luxury. It didn't matter that most offices at the time provided coffee.


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The only difference between ordinary service and extraordinary service is a little EXTRA.

-- Bob

'Fraid so. Take a look at Volume 67, Decisions of the Comptroller General of the United States, page 79 - 83 [67 Comp. Gen. 79 (1987)]. That decision (B-220542) holds five named Agency for International Development employees personally liable to the government for the value of tickets they got by redeeming frequent flyer miles earned from official government travel. That decision also surveys prior decisions by the Comptroller General dating back to 1984, including holdings that employees cannot use such miles for personal travel even if the government was unable to take advantage of the miles before they expired.