Creative Ticketing: First class to London
May 7, 2000, 8:40 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: LA
Posts: 8
Creative Ticketing: First class to London
I just heard about this website from a friend and have been reading posts for hours! I'd like to submit my first topic: Creative Ticketing.
A one-way first class ticket from LAX - LHR is about $5700 on AA and UA. But, both AA and UA have a listed first class fare from SJD(Cabo) - MAD(Madrid) for about $3100.
I went to ITN and priced out the following intinerary:
SJD - LAX Alaska Airlines in FIRST
LAX - LHR American Airlines in FIRST
LHR - MAD British Midland in BUSINESS
Total cost for the above ticket: $3167! Ticketing would be done via AA and the traveler would hold three flight coupons, each for a different airline.
May I suggest the following chat topics:
1. Since the goal is only the LAX-LHR flight, if the traveler no showed on the SJD-LAX flight, would AA ever know about the no show and, if so, would AA still allow the traveler to use the LAX-LHR coupon? My thoughts are that since the flights are on different, even competing airlines, AA would never know.
2. Since the fare is a full-fare first class ticket, there are no stopver restrictions. So, it would be easy to schedule a stopover in LHR, and then use the LHR-MAD segment at a later date, or not at all.
3. Could the unused SJD-LAX flight coupon be used at a later date, after the AA LAX-LHR flight? Again, I would think Alaska Airlines would never know about the AA segment and would honor the SJD-LAX segment at a later date.
4. Do you see any other concerns with the "creative ticket"? Obviously, the worst situation would be to show up at LAX for a flight to LHR and find that your ticket has been cancelled. Even then, since its full fare first class, the ticket would still be refundable.
I do realize that some airline employees are on this board and I respect that many of you will find creative ticketing to be unethical. This is simply a topic for discussion.
A one-way first class ticket from LAX - LHR is about $5700 on AA and UA. But, both AA and UA have a listed first class fare from SJD(Cabo) - MAD(Madrid) for about $3100.
I went to ITN and priced out the following intinerary:
SJD - LAX Alaska Airlines in FIRST
LAX - LHR American Airlines in FIRST
LHR - MAD British Midland in BUSINESS
Total cost for the above ticket: $3167! Ticketing would be done via AA and the traveler would hold three flight coupons, each for a different airline.
May I suggest the following chat topics:
1. Since the goal is only the LAX-LHR flight, if the traveler no showed on the SJD-LAX flight, would AA ever know about the no show and, if so, would AA still allow the traveler to use the LAX-LHR coupon? My thoughts are that since the flights are on different, even competing airlines, AA would never know.
2. Since the fare is a full-fare first class ticket, there are no stopver restrictions. So, it would be easy to schedule a stopover in LHR, and then use the LHR-MAD segment at a later date, or not at all.
3. Could the unused SJD-LAX flight coupon be used at a later date, after the AA LAX-LHR flight? Again, I would think Alaska Airlines would never know about the AA segment and would honor the SJD-LAX segment at a later date.
4. Do you see any other concerns with the "creative ticket"? Obviously, the worst situation would be to show up at LAX for a flight to LHR and find that your ticket has been cancelled. Even then, since its full fare first class, the ticket would still be refundable.
I do realize that some airline employees are on this board and I respect that many of you will find creative ticketing to be unethical. This is simply a topic for discussion.
May 7, 2000, 8:50 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,752
Way to go!!! Even though different airlines are involved, the recorwill most likely cancel if you don't show for segment one.
Last year, I noticed that one could purchase a roundtrip first class Europe-LAX-Europe for about $4000 versus about $7500 going the other way. I thought, "Hmm, if I buy that ticket, I could take the segments out of order, and start my trip in the US." But when I asked reservations about that, they told me the rules were different for international trips, and I would not be able to do this. Now I don't know if the rules are true of not, but I didn't take any chances.
On another note, I still needed to fly Europe to LAX. LHR-JFK in First was about $4500. But Pisa-LHR-JFK-LAX in F, C, and CONCORDE was $4100. What a trip that was, albeit expensive.
Last year, I noticed that one could purchase a roundtrip first class Europe-LAX-Europe for about $4000 versus about $7500 going the other way. I thought, "Hmm, if I buy that ticket, I could take the segments out of order, and start my trip in the US." But when I asked reservations about that, they told me the rules were different for international trips, and I would not be able to do this. Now I don't know if the rules are true of not, but I didn't take any chances.
On another note, I still needed to fly Europe to LAX. LHR-JFK in First was about $4500. But Pisa-LHR-JFK-LAX in F, C, and CONCORDE was $4100. What a trip that was, albeit expensive.
May 7, 2000, 12:33 pm
#3
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 2,581
I love finding these anomalies. That is a good question, though--do AS and AA (in your example) ever talk regarding noshows...
Best deal in biz I've seen from North America to Europe is Toronto-Milan on KLM for appx $1600 USD round trip. Before the CP/AC takeover CP matched it on their nonstop.
Don't forget round-the-world to beat the West Coast/Europe cost issues.
Best deal in biz I've seen from North America to Europe is Toronto-Milan on KLM for appx $1600 USD round trip. Before the CP/AC takeover CP matched it on their nonstop.
Don't forget round-the-world to beat the West Coast/Europe cost issues.
May 7, 2000, 5:22 pm
#5
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT (NYC Suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL
Programs: United Premier 1K, American AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 3,089
Since these are premium (refundable) tix not requiring a round trip, you can buy separate ones for each direction. For openers, one way premium segments from most European destinations back to the USA are significantly less expensive than the outbound segment. If you no show the originating outbound segment, your connect will likely cancel out of LAX. At the least, you will be noticed, and they may want to visit with you about rewriting your ticket at a much higher fare. If you can find a travel agent willing to do it, they could write the ticket on the foreign carrier you would use on the "phantom leg" to Madrid. If it were done right, each carrier would only see their respective leg, hence any one no-show segment would not kill the other legs. It probably would also help to change airports for the phantom connect (e.g.into LHR out of LGW) so your baggage doesn't make an unscheduled trip of it's own. Same deal on the return, which would be on a separate reservation (probably terminating in a Canadian city for the unused leg...those fares are also much cheaper). My guess is there aren't many agencies that would write such a ticket, and if you get caught somebody will get the bill. Try flying lots of miles and using a reward. It's a lot less nerve wracking.
May 7, 2000, 6:52 pm
#6
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York City
Posts: 3,506
I agree with the previous post. I think you should pursue the one-way option. I'm doing it this summer, but in Y class. Cheap student one-way to London, round-trip back and then another one-way. I get the two trips (even though on three tix - two o/w and one r/t) for a third off what I would have paid for two r/ts in the USA. I've been assured by posters on this board and the airline concerned that this is legit (all of my flights are on the same airline to maximise elite miles.)
May 7, 2000, 8:28 pm
#7
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Washington DC
Programs: UA GS, DL Silver, EK Gold, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond
Posts: 797
the best thing to do is once you get the tickets issued call up each airline and make some change to your booking (i.e. a meal req or something) and ask them to create a new record in their system (you will have to ask them to do this and come up with an excuse). this would cause the other airlines to "lose track" of your booking. and when you arrive at the airport for boarding the gate agents are usually least concenred about something that looks wrong but was on a diff airline. i've done this a couple of times on exactly the same thing you propose (i.e. US - LHR but instead i did a YYZ - IAD- LHR - BCN which ended up being @ 2000 cheaper) and it worked out fine. with full fare first class tickets i think the airlines are a little less interested in upsetting the passenger 
anyways - good luck
[This message has been edited by indogulf (edited 05-07-2000).]
anyways - good luck
[This message has been edited by indogulf (edited 05-07-2000).]
May 7, 2000, 8:52 pm
#8
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York - DL Gold, AA Gold, AC Prestige, VS Silver
Posts: 811
Since the airline is different, all you need to do is rip out the first coupon. Even if they realize that you didn't use the first segment, they will assume that the system made a mistake, when they see the first coupon is gone.
May 8, 2000, 3:43 pm
#9
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Francisco UA1K; AA Gold
Posts: 937
For that kind of savings, I'd consider flying one way down to Cabo in order to pick up the flight back and make it all legit.
The other problem is that your bags will be checked through to Madrid; if your "real" destination is London, you better travel with just carry-ons.
The other problem is that your bags will be checked through to Madrid; if your "real" destination is London, you better travel with just carry-ons.
May 8, 2000, 4:48 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,752
Johna,
Easy way to avoid the bag problem...
On international flights, a connection must be within 24 hours to be a through fare. So just make the LHR-MAD segent the next day, within 24 hours. This way, you will check your bags to LHR where you will "spend the night."
Easy way to avoid the bag problem...
On international flights, a connection must be within 24 hours to be a through fare. So just make the LHR-MAD segent the next day, within 24 hours. This way, you will check your bags to LHR where you will "spend the night."
May 8, 2000, 4:49 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,752
Johna,
Easy way to avoid the bag problem...
On international flights, a connection must be within 24 hours to be a through fare. So just make the LHR-MAD segent the next day, within 24 hours. This way the airline will check your bags to LHR where you will "spend the night."
Easy way to avoid the bag problem...
On international flights, a connection must be within 24 hours to be a through fare. So just make the LHR-MAD segent the next day, within 24 hours. This way the airline will check your bags to LHR where you will "spend the night."
May 8, 2000, 7:12 pm
#12
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: San Francisco (Marin County), CA
Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime ExecPlat, LH HON Circle, SQ PPS Solitaire, Hyatt Courtesy Card
Posts: 3,002
One more thing:
Just generally, watch out for shared reservation systems. I don't think AA/AS do link, but for example, would not want to do that NW/CO, etc, etc, etc.
Just generally, watch out for shared reservation systems. I don't think AA/AS do link, but for example, would not want to do that NW/CO, etc, etc, etc.
May 8, 2000, 9:20 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,022
Alaska and American both use Sabre, and the reservation may be linked. I do not think tearing out the first flight coupon would make a difference becuase the fare routing code is printed on each coupon and the passenger receipt also shows this.
May 8, 2000, 10:53 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Washington DC
Programs: UA GS, DL Silver, EK Gold, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond
Posts: 797
tango is correct - regardless of what you do with the coupons the linear fare will be printed on all coupons. you can still get the records changed indivdully whch would serve your purpose of using the coupons as you wish. b/c each agent will just assume you have already done the previous segment in order since it wouldnt be in their record.
with regards to baggage - you can get them to short check the bags to LHR without any problems. just tell them you need them for a meeting (of course schedule the MAD flight for later in the day or the next day). you can alswyas reschdule the segment.
with regards to baggage - you can get them to short check the bags to LHR without any problems. just tell them you need them for a meeting (of course schedule the MAD flight for later in the day or the next day). you can alswyas reschdule the segment.
May 9, 2000, 3:45 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: LA
Posts: 8
Thanks for all your comments. I appreciate your opinions on this subject. I do still believe that this creative ticket would work just fine, because:
1. AS and UA are competitors and would not likely exchange "no-show" information in real time
2. The rules of F class fares allow for an unlimited number of stopovers. Therefore, the traveler could schedule a LAX stopover of a week, for instance, then call UA to confirm the LAX-LHR flight a day before departure.
3. The traveler could easily schedule a stopover in LHR, as allowed by the fare.
4. If UA gives the traveler any trouble, the traveler can always get the ticket refunded.
This creative ticket would have its best chance of success when the airlines are not in a common alliance and, in fact, are competitors in their respective markets.
Anyone want to spot me $3K, and I'll give a go!
1. AS and UA are competitors and would not likely exchange "no-show" information in real time
2. The rules of F class fares allow for an unlimited number of stopovers. Therefore, the traveler could schedule a LAX stopover of a week, for instance, then call UA to confirm the LAX-LHR flight a day before departure.
3. The traveler could easily schedule a stopover in LHR, as allowed by the fare.
4. If UA gives the traveler any trouble, the traveler can always get the ticket refunded.
This creative ticket would have its best chance of success when the airlines are not in a common alliance and, in fact, are competitors in their respective markets.
Anyone want to spot me $3K, and I'll give a go!