Are bloggers ruining Flyertalk????
May 8, 2012, 7:27 pm
#76
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 408
Do you people who are making these remarks complaining about those who BLOG,know who owns Flyertalk? Wakeup,Lookup (Internet Brands.com) they are Bloggers themselves,they own Bloggers.They benefit from the very things people on this thread are bashing.If you don't like their business marketing plan,stop reading and posting on Flyertalk.
May 8, 2012, 7:29 pm
#77
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,439
Internet Brands owns BoardingArea? Last time I checked, that wasn't the case.
In any case, IB or FT would be nothing without the community, the people that foster the deals, the people that these bloggers rip off in order to drive their affiliate profits.
In any case, IB or FT would be nothing without the community, the people that foster the deals, the people that these bloggers rip off in order to drive their affiliate profits.
May 8, 2012, 7:33 pm
#78
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: AA, UA, SQ, VA, QF, AF, BA
Posts: 2,865
I think there are two different factors at play.
First, the blogs kill deals that used to be well hidden. This is pretty much incontrovertible and there for anyone to see (if you spend the time to read through some old threads). Read some threads from 2006 about churning or account funding, a 2007 thread about TYPs (the original version, where 60k points could yield a $9k ticket), the 2008 DL Budget rentals, Shutterfly in 2005 ... these were deals that were lucrative beyond-your-wildest-dreams, but things were kept quiet. If you asked an inquisitive question about churning, someone would PM you and ask you to edit your post, and you'd make friends you exchanged information with in private. It all changed, I'm not sure when and why, but secrecy is no more. Deals that were going on for years were killed overnight. Good men may disagree about what's better, secrecy or openness, and we can argue until we turn blue whether it's better for a select few to use a deal for years or thousands of people for a few days. But will this killing of deals damage FT? Probably not, although a case can probably be made that with every bright mind and knowledgeable poster wandering off to a private forum, FT loses out (and make no mistake, this is happening very frequently).
But second, and more importantly, there has been a significant change in the way content is created and discussed on FT. Think, for instance, about the current Radisson promo. In the past, this would have created a huge buzz on FT, with rich discussions. Now, it's essentially, "blog A says this" (often, this is posted by owner of blog A), "blog B says that," and there's very little discussion on FT. It takes place elsewhere, or not at all, because mommy or secrets, or whoever they are posts an "idiot's guide" with colorful illustration. And this effect, which has become more noticeable over the past few months, is threatening to FT, and I am greatly concerned about it.
First, the blogs kill deals that used to be well hidden. This is pretty much incontrovertible and there for anyone to see (if you spend the time to read through some old threads). Read some threads from 2006 about churning or account funding, a 2007 thread about TYPs (the original version, where 60k points could yield a $9k ticket), the 2008 DL Budget rentals, Shutterfly in 2005 ... these were deals that were lucrative beyond-your-wildest-dreams, but things were kept quiet. If you asked an inquisitive question about churning, someone would PM you and ask you to edit your post, and you'd make friends you exchanged information with in private. It all changed, I'm not sure when and why, but secrecy is no more. Deals that were going on for years were killed overnight. Good men may disagree about what's better, secrecy or openness, and we can argue until we turn blue whether it's better for a select few to use a deal for years or thousands of people for a few days. But will this killing of deals damage FT? Probably not, although a case can probably be made that with every bright mind and knowledgeable poster wandering off to a private forum, FT loses out (and make no mistake, this is happening very frequently).
But second, and more importantly, there has been a significant change in the way content is created and discussed on FT. Think, for instance, about the current Radisson promo. In the past, this would have created a huge buzz on FT, with rich discussions. Now, it's essentially, "blog A says this" (often, this is posted by owner of blog A), "blog B says that," and there's very little discussion on FT. It takes place elsewhere, or not at all, because mommy or secrets, or whoever they are posts an "idiot's guide" with colorful illustration. And this effect, which has become more noticeable over the past few months, is threatening to FT, and I am greatly concerned about it.
May 8, 2012, 7:33 pm
#79
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: AL
Programs: All of the Above
Posts: 1,374
The bloggers are motivated to promote themselves for profit. That is neither good, nor bad - just reality. So just keep your tradecraft off the boards and away from the bloggers. Doesn't mean you cannot share info, just share it underground instead of in public where the bloggers will highly publicize it.
May 8, 2012, 7:36 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta SkyMiles
Posts: 152
While the blog thread was very helpful in mentioning some blogs, I agree with the op.
But at least now I'm more knowledgeable on what to search for here on FT lol
But at least now I'm more knowledgeable on what to search for here on FT lol
May 8, 2012, 7:37 pm
#81
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
I was asked to give a guest lecture in our local high school's Accounting class yesterday, as I'm a small local internet entrepreneur. As I gave various examples from my electronics selling business, I had to strongly caution them that they couldn't go out and take what they learned in a 45 minute lecture/demonstration and replicate my business and expect the same results. (I did not say this to prevent competition; in fact, I explicitly said that the opportunities were so vast that I would be delighted if they'd get into the business as well. I would not feel my sales would be a bit threatened.) I especially had to emphasize this as I talked about buying $40k of electronics at once. I know electronics inside and out and it takes real dedication and knowing my business thoroughly in order to be successful. If they thought that they could go out and buy $40k of electronics tomorrow and be successful, they would be gravely mistaken. They would probably end up with huge losses and enormous credit card bills. Certain items work and others don't. It's not a formula that can be quickly taught--it takes experience; following prices and demand and making lots of small mistakes.
I haven't really found anything in life that doesn't follow this pattern.
Airline deals are no exception.
Spoonfeeding the mega-deals (the $40k deals) is not on balance actually helpful long-term to newbies. That kind of knowledge is usually a double-edged sword and they can very easily hurt themselves and others with that knowledge. A breadth of knowledge regarding travel and loyalty programs is necessary to effectively and safely utilize mega-deals.
Learning naturally and broadly: starting from the beginning and working your way upward in knowledge is best for newbies long-term and is best for the continued health of deals for everyone and is best for building a long-term, sustainable community.
This natural learning process does not rule out blogs. In fact, I have seen some blogs admirably fill the role of doing an excellent job of teaching the basics in an easy to understand format.
ajoy, please do not assume that those that advocate secrecy on some deals do so out of selfishness. Some do, I'm sure. However, there are many of us who are happy to help folks learn in appropriate ways according to their current knowledge: teaching the needed next steps of knowledge.
ETA: A big thanks to all of those that have done that for me.
Last edited by HansGolden; May 8, 2012 at 7:48 pm
May 8, 2012, 7:39 pm
#82
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 2,400
Good points. Even when spoon fed some people still won't catch on. I should know, since I've tried to spoon feed several of my friends trying to get them in on this amazingly fun and lucrative pastime. But some, I daresay quite a lot, of people just do not and will not get it. It's like I'm speaking a foreign language to them when they just nod and say "that's nice" and then proceed to continue to pay full fare for the few flights and hotels they can afford. Very frustrating. I think I've only truly converted one person. I've pretty much stopped trying. It's really strange that to most of us this "hobby" is about as difficult as falling off a log and yet to most others (in my experience) it just doesn't compute. For some reason they just have it ingrained in their minds that miles and points and credit cards are just way too much work for the return. So be it. More for the rest of us.
So anyway, I don't know if these blogs spoon feeding things will really change the game all that much. Some of those spoon feeding blogs will help those that would be willing to put forth the work eventually anyway and yet their blogs will still fly over the heads of those that will just never get regardless of how remedial they are.
Either way, not much anyone can do about it so we'll just have to deal with it.
So anyway, I don't know if these blogs spoon feeding things will really change the game all that much. Some of those spoon feeding blogs will help those that would be willing to put forth the work eventually anyway and yet their blogs will still fly over the heads of those that will just never get regardless of how remedial they are.
Either way, not much anyone can do about it so we'll just have to deal with it.
May 8, 2012, 7:42 pm
#83
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: where-ever they pay me to go
Programs: DL KM (charter)
Posts: 300
Admittedly, I lurked on this site for more than 10 years before joining it.
And, since this is quickly turning into a heated discussion/debate...
I would agree totally the mindless 're-posting' of the same deals over and over upon the numerous blogs that keep springing up daily is terrible.
I, like many of you, grow tired of wading through numerous threads and eventually learning useful tips and helpful tricks / deals only to later see step-by-step spoon-fed instructions appear across a plethora of different blogs, nearly all of them interspersed around advertisements for credit cards or other link-referrals.
And I am not sure of the responses of the bloggers so far to this thread. I just now know without a doubt who to thank the next time I suffer through a misbehaved child(ren) (and immature parents making THEIR dreams happen) on my monthly TPACs between Australia and the States.
All this crap about, 'look who we're helping,' and, 'we're enriching families' lives,' and, 'no one owns this stuff' is just that - total CRAP. I believe these bloggers do what they do because they make money for themselves, and THEIR families. I can think of several bloggers who, 'took the plunge' and decided to blog full-time during the previous 24 months. And, they can then travel and experience the world and write bad trip reports.
Why else would they quit their day jobs if they weren't envisioning potentially ever-increasing income streams (and travel opportunities)?
If all these bloggers really weren't doing this to line their pockets with referrals (or even recognition and speaking engagements and to get interviewed), they (like the rest of us) would keep these tips to themselves.
But, they need that name recognition, they need the links, they need the speaking engagements, they need the publicity for THEIR blogs...all of those things drive TRAFFIC to their sites, which means more revenues for them.
And if one of them can get mentioned by a mainstream media, or a national network news organization (or, even - OMG - interviewed on-air), then bring on the kickback money for them.
And none of this, "well, since I can't defend my position well enough to explain my revenue-earnings, I'll go with 'let's all just get along because we all want the good stuff'" crap either.
Quit making any kickback money whatsoever from your site(s), and then see how compelled you folks feel to re-publish all the stuff you find here...when you don't need to increase your UPVs or other measures of readership.
Because, after all, there are only so many boring trip reports filled with out-of-focus pictures and bad video clips blog readers will suffer through when the links to the deals (and the spoon-fed instructions) stop appearing.
I invite conflicting opinions (I already donned the flamesuit).
And, since this is quickly turning into a heated discussion/debate...
I would agree totally the mindless 're-posting' of the same deals over and over upon the numerous blogs that keep springing up daily is terrible.
I, like many of you, grow tired of wading through numerous threads and eventually learning useful tips and helpful tricks / deals only to later see step-by-step spoon-fed instructions appear across a plethora of different blogs, nearly all of them interspersed around advertisements for credit cards or other link-referrals.
And I am not sure of the responses of the bloggers so far to this thread. I just now know without a doubt who to thank the next time I suffer through a misbehaved child(ren) (and immature parents making THEIR dreams happen) on my monthly TPACs between Australia and the States.
All this crap about, 'look who we're helping,' and, 'we're enriching families' lives,' and, 'no one owns this stuff' is just that - total CRAP. I believe these bloggers do what they do because they make money for themselves, and THEIR families. I can think of several bloggers who, 'took the plunge' and decided to blog full-time during the previous 24 months. And, they can then travel and experience the world and write bad trip reports.
Why else would they quit their day jobs if they weren't envisioning potentially ever-increasing income streams (and travel opportunities)?
If all these bloggers really weren't doing this to line their pockets with referrals (or even recognition and speaking engagements and to get interviewed), they (like the rest of us) would keep these tips to themselves.
But, they need that name recognition, they need the links, they need the speaking engagements, they need the publicity for THEIR blogs...all of those things drive TRAFFIC to their sites, which means more revenues for them.
And if one of them can get mentioned by a mainstream media, or a national network news organization (or, even - OMG - interviewed on-air), then bring on the kickback money for them.
And none of this, "well, since I can't defend my position well enough to explain my revenue-earnings, I'll go with 'let's all just get along because we all want the good stuff'" crap either.
Quit making any kickback money whatsoever from your site(s), and then see how compelled you folks feel to re-publish all the stuff you find here...when you don't need to increase your UPVs or other measures of readership.
Because, after all, there are only so many boring trip reports filled with out-of-focus pictures and bad video clips blog readers will suffer through when the links to the deals (and the spoon-fed instructions) stop appearing.
I invite conflicting opinions (I already donned the flamesuit).
May 8, 2012, 7:44 pm
#84
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MSP
Posts: 81
HansGolden,
That was one of the most thoughtful and considerate posts I have seen on FT. Thank you.
ajoy
That was one of the most thoughtful and considerate posts I have seen on FT. Thank you.
ajoy
May 8, 2012, 7:50 pm
#85
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 408
AND!! who makes up the Boarding Area.BLoggers,Bloggers,Bloggers and more Bloggers.
May 8, 2012, 7:50 pm
#86
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: AA; The Peninsula
Posts: 209
The landscape is always changing, everything moves in cycles, and it's in no one's power to stop it.
May 8, 2012, 7:51 pm
#87
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,310
I'd put money up that the people complaining on this thread also read the blogs everyday. 
May 8, 2012, 7:51 pm
#88
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,439
All this crap about, 'look who we're helping,' and, 'we're enriching families' lives,' and, 'no one owns this stuff' is just that - total CRAP. I believe these bloggers do what they do because they make money for themselves, and THEIR families. I can think of several bloggers who, 'took the plunge' and decided to blog full-time during the previous 24 months. And, they can then travel and experience the world and write bad trip reports.
Worst of all, the full time bloggers try to blog more and more because it's their only source of income, diminishing quality of content and increasingly grasping at straws in order just to sound like the ultimate authority on everything miles and points, and of course drive affiliate revenue.
And if one of them can get mentioned by a mainstream media, or a national network news organization (or, even - OMG - interviewed on-air), then bring on the kickback money for them.
And none of this, "well, since I can't defend my position well enough to explain my revenue-earnings, I'll go with 'let's all just get along because we all want the good stuff'" crap either.
May 8, 2012, 7:52 pm
#89
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: Many
Posts: 335
I think some of those complaining about bloggers in this thread are not distinguishing well between two distinct types of situations. Deals and opportunities that are meant to be public really cannot be contained within some "in group" that wants to keep them to themselves. Really, such an attitude is counter to spirit of the company which wants to promote the deal widely, and the bloggers are well within its spirit. If the Discover America program is now harder for an in group to dominate and manipulate for its own interests, too bad.
There are, on the other hand, some strategies and techniques that are a matter of gaming the system that get "spoiled" when written about too much. The company may be aware of a problem, but when only a few game the system, they may feel that the benefits of the way things are set up outweigh the costs. But when a loophole becomes too widely know, the benefit ratios change and the deal gets killed. I guess there are a lot of ethical issues here and I'm not going into that right now.
I personally find blogs extremely useful and the bloggers very helpful when I have had occasion to ask them questions personally.
There are, on the other hand, some strategies and techniques that are a matter of gaming the system that get "spoiled" when written about too much. The company may be aware of a problem, but when only a few game the system, they may feel that the benefits of the way things are set up outweigh the costs. But when a loophole becomes too widely know, the benefit ratios change and the deal gets killed. I guess there are a lot of ethical issues here and I'm not going into that right now.
I personally find blogs extremely useful and the bloggers very helpful when I have had occasion to ask them questions personally.
May 8, 2012, 7:52 pm
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309