Tempted by Bonus Miles? Do the Math...WSJ Article 8/19
 

At least this article points towards the real values in the miles: First Class (and Business Class) tickets to international destinations.

It also puts the miles accelerator offerings in their rightful place.

Who'd have thought it? ;)

Thank you for posting this link. I try not to "pay" more than 1.6 cpm and try not to redeem for less than 5 cpm. The best way to do that, as mentioned above, is on the long haul flights in business or first class. Another way to get the best return on usage is to book travel on the far edges of the award categories. AA, for example, puts Madrid, Istanbul, and Moscow in the same "Europe" category. You can guess which is the better value.

Funny, though, how paying over 3 cpm for mile still makes me shudder even if I can redeem for greater value.

There are suckers to buy these. It is great revenue for Airlines.

I would not even consider it in a minute.

Well then how about this - we took a cruise from Venice to Athens and I used my FF miles to go FC on Swiss. Our friends had no significant mileage balances anywhere. The cruise ship wanted a total of $5,600 to fly them both Business Class.

I got them to purchase miles from US Air during a double miles promotion last summer. At that time, Business Class was 80,000 miles (it's now 100k). Total cost was $1,100 per person, $2,200 for the two of them and a lot less than the cruise ship wanted and much, much less than buying from the airline.

Never say never.

If you'll read a different post about my experience this summer, you will see that I needed to get from Athens to Zurich. Paid tickets were almost $500 RT each (throwing away the return) and much more one-way. BMI wanted only 9,000 miles per seat in Business. Unfortunately, you can't transfer miles into them from typical AMEX products. I purchased the miles from BMI during a 20% bonus promotion, purchased 15,000 miles, got the 18,000 I needed for me and my wife and got the two one-way Business Class seats for under $300.

Again, never say never.

The title of this thread does not say to never buy miles. It appropriately says, "do the math." Sometimes you can be surprised.

"Every major U.S. airline, except Continental (NYSE: CAL - News) and Southwest (NYSE: LUV - News), sells additional miles to members of its frequent-flier program. "

Apparently someone didn't do their research very well:
https://www.continental.com/web/en-U.../buymiles.aspx

Clearly not a FTer ;)

I think it's a good thing they omitted some of the more cost effective ways to do this (i.e. US Airways x2 promo) as more people purchasing miles = more redemption = less award availability for those of us with hundreds of thousands or even millions of miles (unfortunately, I fall into neither the former nor the latter category...yet).

People who are dumb enough to just routinely pay $.03/mi just because they know that having miles is good, and aren't good at long division, are probably also not very smart about how they redeem and so shouldn't get in FT'ers' way too often.

^

For sure...I try to average around $.01/mile, which is why I'm passing on this 100% US Airways buy promo, hoping that they re-do the 100% share and that the pans out.

Bonus?
 

First post here :)

I'm not really sure why they call them "bonus" miles - they are only talking about purchased miles. Bonus miles would be those given away for signing up for a card card, for example. Seems like a poor choice of words. Bonus miles are (almost) always good value!

I guess they use "bonus" as a way to distinguish it from flight miles.

Or more specifically, Elite Qualifying Miles.

You'd save yourself a lot of money if you did consider it for a minute, buy during promotions (under 1.5 cpm), and use to fly int'l C/F.

how many of us would actually ever pay $7800 for a business class ticket? the only revenue flyers in those seats are being paid for by corporate america. i understand the value involved, but if you would have never paid the $7800 in the first place isn't it a stretch?

Really?

May be you miss the important point "Do the Math". The examples may not be the best ones in the articles, but they do convey the idea.

Suckers might very well be those who summarily dismiss the idea without an ounce of thought to put in the "Math" part.

I am glad Steven397 has provided vivid examples to show he is the Smart Set who buy the miles when the Math makes a lot of sense! He helped his friend save several thousands by getting them to buy miles from US Airways. He also saved several hundreds for himself by buying miles from BMI...

Who is the sucker and who is the Smartie?

May be you would like to read Steven397's post no.6 to understand the concept of "Do the Math"?

You would be surprised. This was a luxury cruise this summer on Silversea cruise line. It included free RT economy air while offering Business Class upgrades for $2,000 RT. If you declined the economy tickets, they gave you an $800 credit meaning the RT Business Class was really $2800 per person.

I can personally tell you that a whole lot of people on the cruise took advantage of the Business upgrade and considered themselves fortunate since if they had booked it themselves, it would have been about $3500 - and trust me, they would have most certainly paid it.

Almost every one of them would NEVER go to the efforts that I go to (and trust me - I enjoy it!). But there are many people who gladly buy Business Class tickets who are not merely business people but are successful people who like to live well. Your argument as to whether there is value if someone would not willingly pay that amount is an old and constant discussion on FT. There is no answer and no agreement. But I think that all can agree that it is a pleasure to live the good life and enjoy perks, even if you cannot afford them and might not pay for them. Whatever your approach, there is certainly value and enjoyment to be had. Six years ago, when I was first becoming knowledgeable about this stuff, we transferred points to Cathay Pacific for them to book First Class travel on British Airways from NY to Paris. At the time, Cathay charged 90,000 miles each while BA wanted 150,000 for the same seats. We dove in and have never looked back!

I totally agree. There are undoubtedly scholarly theories on the "value" of money and how each of us perceives that value of when making spending choices. I would not (and could not!) pay thousands of dollars to fly business class from BOS to DEL (as I am doing in January), but would happily do so with AA miles. It's like adding a day to the vacation on each end. Pricing is based on supply and demand, and airlines charge so much for those seats because they can get it. If I can get the same thing by "paying" 1.5 cpm and getting a 6 cpm "value" on something I could never afford but delighted to have, I consider it a very big day.

I sincerely tip my hat to those who don't succumb to the emotional value of the purchase and can stick to the economics. But at my age, there's a value to doing something "crazy" every now and then - especially when it's with miles and not dollars.

Key to stevens397's case were two factors:

1. Immediate, specific, available use for the purchased miles.

2. Not enough existing miles in the users' accounts.

With the above two conditions, purchasing miles is just another form of currency and can save money, as it did for stevens397.

With all the front-end bonus giveaways these days (not to mention the likely future miles devaluations they will bring), buying miles otherwise is just a bad call.

I think for the casual user of FF miles and other reward programs, the value isn't as high. But, for those that watch for the deals and see it as a game, there is greater value.

Plus, I enjoy it. My sister enjoys garage saleing; I enjoy collection tons of FF miles and taking nice trips.

The crazy part to me is how much time my sister will spend to save a few bucks of old baby clothes, but not get a few CCs that will allow her to take flight for free that she often pays for.

having information is almost always good. decide what is right for you and what fits your travel patterns and preferences. hopefully people know exactly what they are buying before they spend the money

You do NOT buy miles unless you have an immediate / not too distant future need for that.

I cannot see why anyone would buy miles for the hoarding sake. Such argument would be more academic than what is happening in real life.

Those who buy always have a purpose to serve - for award flights that would work out cheaper than buying revenue tickets, for AA's unpublished unofficial Lifetime Status, are most likely the 2 major reasons for folks buying AA miles for example. Taking advantage of US Airway's 100% bonus offers can be another. There is a guy posted somewhere on this forum on a similar thread that he routinely buy US Airways miles during the 50% bonus promo because it is much CHEAPER than his 5 to 6 times a year Transcon First Class r/t. He is very happy to be able to buy the miles for this purpose needless to say.

Actually there are other promotional opportunities to amass miles for very low costs. A friend amassed over 1 million US Airways miles during various promo last X'mas for a cost just about $5K. It is a well-worth cost to him for the miles can be used to fly SQ TPAC or LH TATL, in business class - several r/ts can be made from that.

You dont go out to buy miles blindly - you put in time and effort to monitor promotions that would work for your own scenario and acquire the miles at the cheap.

It really boils down to "Do the Math", as simple as that!

am: Welcome to FlyerTalk! :)

I fly from Texas to Eastern Europe about 4 times a year. Off season a coach ticket is about $900, in season about $1300. If I were to use miles to upgrade the tickets across the Atlantic would and anywhere from $500 to $1000 in fees depending on the airline I use (AA vs CO). When US runs their 100% bonus miles, I can get 100K US miles for about $1400. I can redeem those for a business ticket on Lufthansa that would cost $4000 with advance purchase or $8500 if bought within 50 days of departure. So I guess I am a sucker for doing that. US has ran their promotion three times so far and I have cashed in three C tickets. I have never been able to find a C ticket to Eastern Europe for under $2500.

"It's like adding a day to the vacation on each end." Great way of looking at it, MilesMark. Now there's someone who truly understands why many of us work so hard to accumulate miles by whatever means necessary (as long as they are for 1.5 cents or so) so we can get those TPAC-TATL business/first class seats.

One nice aspect to buying miles is the ability to top off accounts unlikely to get to award levels. Or, with U.S.'s share miles with a kicker or AA's deals where you buy miles for another person but get miles in your account you can get the added bonus of essentially transferring miles to or from smaller accounts.

Just a quick example -- I currently need 4 one way tickets that would cost about $1,000. I can get them with 50k AA miles. Right now, with bonuses, I can buy 56k AA miles for $1105. I could buy the miles and use 50k of them for the trip, and I'd have 6k leftover miles for an extra $105. A decent deal, but ultimately probably not something I'd do since it's close to break even and I lose the 4xBIS miles by using reward tickets instead of cash tickets. But, the thing that makes it more attractive is that my wife has 52k miles in her account, which doesn't get much activity. I'd rather have those points in my account. So, if I buy the 56k miles into my account and use her miles to book the 4 tickets, it's essentially a mileage transfer from her to me. I have 56k more toward a million and we've essentially moved those miles into our main account where much more activity happens. Also, the change policy on the award tickets is slightly more generous, so that has value too. So, while I would not typically use 50k miles for $1,000 in tickets, buying miles I wouldn't ordinarily buy instead to book the reservation makes sense for us.

Nice transfer method!

I guess to each his own, but that seems like a lot of mental gymnastics to go through for a cost per mile that is not particularly appealing. Have you considered getting the 75k Citi cc that costs you nothing (assuming you have the ability to meet the necessary spend requirements)?

We already have 3 citi cards but opened a business card for the 100k (50/50) promo.

I'm not really sure I understand the bolded part. I need to buy 4 one way tickets that will cost me about $1020. I can buy enough miles to book the same travel (plus another 6k) for $1105. I'm not really sure what cost per mile has to really do with anything.

If I pay cash for the travel, I won't buy the miles from AA. So, for me, the analysis comes down to a simple question: What am I getting for my extra $85 if I buy the miles to book my travel instead of paying cash? The answer is: (1) I get 6k RDM, (2) I can make free changes to the tickets if departure and return cities stay the same. (3) I essentially move 50k miles out of an account that is not often used and has the miles primarily from a prior credit card bonus into an account that will eventually reach status level. The cost of doing this is losing 4x2100 BIS miles, plus losing the opportunity to buy miles from AA for the rest of the year. (Unlikely.)

So if I need to purchase the tickets, and if buying the miles allows me to get the same tickets essentially, what does cpm have to do with me? (I'm seriously asking the question, not asking it rhetorically; if I'm looking at this wrong I'd like to know.)

If I were in same situation I would do the same thing to book award travel from the idle account. People often forget about the flexibility on award tickets - that is a very valuable benefit when a change ticket fee is $150 for domestic and $250 to $400 for international.

Moving the "idling" miles to the active account that is aiming for life time status is probably a desirable move, too.

The concept of "Do the Math" does not mean just the basic calculation of cpm - it means "Do the necessary Analysis" in a broader sense, to see whether the benefits gained from buying the miles outweigh the "losses" with paying cash for the tickets. To me, this is an implied pre-requisite. It really is more than just a cpm calculation.

Purchase of Miles
 

My bumper sticker says, "I DON'T DO IT BECAUSE I AM GOOD AT MATH."

My point is that once you have made up your mind that using award miles is the way to pay for your travel, you need to figure out the cheapest way to accumulate (or in your case, replenish) the miles. I think paying nearly $0.02 per mile is not that attractive of a deal unless you have exhausted all of the cheaper alternatives (credit cards, Fidelity, Ameritrade, BankDirect, etc.).

You are still buying 56K miles for $1100. All you are doing is redeeming the miles from your wife's account and then buying miles in your own account. Why don't you just redeem from your wife's account and then be done with it.

Beyond that you are just buying 56K miles for $1100 which is a bad deal IMO. Is it really worth $1100 to add 56K miles to your account. You should think about it irrespsective of your wife's account. Its obvious you should redeem the miles from her account. But from there why do you think you should buy miles?

Of those alternatives mentioned, you would still need to do a cost analysis on the brokerage accounts and the BankDirect method. On top of that, not everyone would qualify the brokerage deals such as Fidelity is very steadfast refusing bonus if you have existing Fido account. BankDirect works better for folks in high tax brackets. But even with such consideration, one would still need to use one's miles for high value redemption to justify the loss of interest earnings even in today's very low rate environment, especially if one already has a healthy balance of miles.

Hmmm. Food for thought Although I'm not sure that I would ordinarily redeem 50k miles, if they were in my account for $1020 worth of travel. 2 cpm is ok from my account, but not great. There are enough miles in my account for F or Buisiness travel abroad, and I will probably use them for such within the next 12 to 18 months.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if there were a way to transfer 50k from her account to my account for free, what I would do for the upcoming travel is buy the tickets with cash and keep the miles in my account. I would value the 50k in my account as worth more than the 2cpm, but not really in her account. By using her miles to book the travel, and getting miles in my account for an additional $85, I've essentially done exactly that. Haven't I?

The point you've raised though is a good one, and I suppose I must consider what I'd do with $1105 more in my pocket for future travel if I simply use my wife's miles for the tickets.

Well it sounds like you may actually value your miles at 2 cents a piece. So then I guess if you are buying 56K for $1100 it is a wash. But if you are going to buy miles why stop at 56K. You could buy 100 or 200K.

I think you should redeem the miles from your wife's account because as you said those re worth less than 2 cents each. The question then becomes, irregardless of the trip you are making does it make sense to purchase miles from AA at the current cost. IMO, the trip you are making and the miles you are taking from your wife should have zero impact on this decision.

How are you getting 56K anyways? isn't it 40K plus 12K bonus for $1000 plus $30 plus $70ish in taxes. So I see 52K for $1100. I haven't done the math but I suspect you would have been slightly better off buying SPG and converting those to AA when they had the 35% bonus.

Some thoughts in bold.

Lkar,

Have you considered buying BMI miles. The regular price is under 2 cents each. You can use cash and miles awards so you don't need that many miles and the cash portion is about 1 cent per mile so the award only cost about 1.5 cents per mile

Even better C awards are cheaper than AA. You can actually buy a C award to Europe for about $1075 cash. You also get free stopovers, and one way awards. Plus star has much better availability IMO. Only downside is fuel surcharges.

Since lkar is prepared to open his/her wallet and pay $0.02 per mile, the only decision that he/she needs to make is whether there are alternative ways to earn miles that are cheaper than $0.02 per mile and whether the effort to do so is worth the savings.

The "cost analysis" for a brokerage account bonus is whether or not the fee for transferring securities out of your old brokerage is more or less than $0.02 per mile in bonuses from Fidelity and TD Ameritrade. That's a pretty straight-forward calculation and shouldn't take more than a minute to do. (If you want to put some esoteric cost on the period of time when securities are in limbo and can't be traded or the immaterial interest that one foregoes during this time, have at it.)

The "cost analysis" for a transfer of funds to BankDirect is also a very simple calculation. Can you earn more than 2.4% after-tax in a liquid, risk-free investment? (By the way, this ignores all up-front and referral bonuses.) If you can, then keep your money where it is and pay AA $0.02 per mile. If not, BankDirect is a cheaper alternative.

What other "cost analysis" do you propose one do to analyze my suggested alternatives?