Personally, I think the 'default' on this or any other site should be to NOT cross-post unless the OP specifically indicates it's ok (feel free to share with friends, family, s*deals, f*wallet, the NYTimes, Craigslist,etc).

I agree. I think that in many ways, one should consider that the OP has the 'intellectual ownership' of the discovery of a mistake/trick fare and it is up to him/her to cross post if he/she wants to. If anyone else wants to cross-post, I think they should ask him/her permission first. In other words, I'd always assume that someone willing to share a great discovery with me as a fellow FTers is sharing it with me as part of a given community of people who share a passion for travelling, flying, and discovering great deals, and not as a member of humanity (or its internet connected sub-part) at large ;)

i support putting some CC type restriction on this forum. maybe lessen it to 30 days 30 posts. Also after the FTer hits 15 days 15 posts let an auto message come up informing the person about the existence of such a forum.

I agree, something like that would be a good idea. I've found that it still can take a lot of reading and a lot of trying to make deals work, even when the posts were much more open and detailed. Having a CC type restriction would certainly reduce the number of one-time opportunists who come to FT only because of a cross-post from somewhere else. 30 days/30 posts isn't too much; after all, most of us waiting 90?/180? days/posts to see CC or OMNI.


I think as a community, we (includes me!) ought to try to be more conscientous about posting things like 'if you have any questions, PM or post here, DO NOT CALL!'. I know from experience, the 'stickies' can be overwhelming anyway, and you can't assume that someone who drops in to the forums reads entire threads, let alone the stickies. If we keep putting the reminders throughout the threads as we post, we're more likely to educate more folks before they make an ill-advised call that ends a mistake or worse, closes a loophole.

OMNI restrictions have been lifted.

As to antes or barriers to entry...
 

Mileage run deals are diamonds in the rough. Who knows where they'll come from? Just like, who knows where inspiration will come from? Or diamonds.

Nice to see some of these fares last longer allowing FTERS time to book ^..So what if a poster has to take some flak :D for not giving every last detail on the fares or how exactly to book.. At least the fares last and most FTERS figure it out and learn some new ways to get even lower fares while searching for the flights..

There are assumptions that all in this debate seem to share: that the person posting a tricked deal is the first, or among the first, to know about it, and that FlyerTalkers are early to find out about it. Is it reasonable to assume these things? Or could the deal's life already be 3/4 over by the time it hits here? There are several reasons that this could be possible.

"Trick It, Negotiate It, Work it"
I guess I should visit this forum more often, and not spend all my time in the Air Canada forum.
all this stuff you guys are talking about makes no sense to me, and all these codes people talk in. but It's alright, reminds me of when I was back in School, there were always kids that never shared. :)

There were two types who never shared:

1. Competitive advantage (med school types and all)

2. Those who shared, were burned by Type 1, and never share again.

I find most FT'ers, including myself, as Type 2s. Why share, when we know others may not? But I share what I find always, even if it means six more CO Gold/Plats ahead of me on the UG list.

I share.

But please dont expect me to spell out the routing, dates and flight numbers.
I am not your travel agent

is it really sharing to say $99ai flight from nyc to mad, you have alreadly typed a message stating flight price, why not a few more words, also no one is asking you to book any travel for them

Check out the <$700 for 24k miles on UA to SYD thread.
Thats as much information as I can give out without it being too obvious.

There isnt any hidden secret to booking a "trick" thats not already on FT and that cannot be found within these forums

Part of that commitment is your putting in the effort in READING stickies and WORKING OUT some of your own Mileage Runs.

Once you do that, what is said "somewhat cryptically" suddenly becomes far more clear.

Also, it's clear very fast from what you post or PM if you have done the above. If not, don't hold your breath till you get the details.

Steve

15/15 or 30/30 is, IMHO, not enough.

FlyerTalk is a FORUM, which means two way communication; and about learning the ropes as well as helping to teach others what we are taught. The post minimums (and 90/90 is not unreasonable) means that your past posts can be checked for content to see if a user has actually put any effort into learning how to do anything, and if they have put some effort into helping others with passing on the knowledge they have gained.

Those that are just lurking around to try to grab some low hanging fruit and expecting to have their hand held all the way through the process are not the ones I understand the forum as a whole is looking for.

FT has become too much of "newbie here and can you walk me through exactly how to get that great mistake fare?", and "how do I earn 100,000 miles in 1 week?", and "please re-type and explain everything I want to know yet again because I am too lazy to bother reading the sticky threads at the top of each forum".


Yeah, I did manage to accumulate a million miles within 16 months after finding FlyerTalk, but I also put a lot of effort into learning the techniques and using that to find and use the opportunities; and I was posting help to others within two months (after first MR with IRROPS disrupting my first positioning flight, requiring quite a bit of phone work with CS to adjust the six back-to-back RTs to score AA's FLY3 bonuses, but I had the alternatives in hand so I was very prepared and it went quite smoothly; and I even attended an FT-do in the middle of it!).

Steve

It's possible to follow exactly the course you advocate (read first, put in real effort to learn, share learned information) and end up with relatively few posts. From experience on other forums, I've always tried to search and figure things out before asking any questions. Having done research and learned how much knowledge is on the board, and feeling somewhat tentative about my own state of knowledge, I'm then hesistant to post an answer to any question knowing that there are people far more knowledgeable than me who will undoubtedly provide an answer better than any I can offer.

= Rankourabu is one of the most generous and helpful people I have encountered on FT. Without his insight, I would not have been able to figure many things out ... I think what he is saying is that a little effort and persistence and pro-activeness is needed from us all. You cannot have things just given to you.

Another poster taking from FT and posting on his own web site.
 

On the sfo/lax-syd thread a couple of FTERS are saying CTOWNFLYER has been taking our food and feeding it to others on his own site..:eek:
No wonder we are starving..:(
I sent CTOWNFLYER a P.M. asking him for the site he post OUR DEALS on..I have received no respone.
Does anybody know what site he is posting OUR DEALS on...

In the last few days I have answered at least 150 P.Ms
I answered pretty well every P.M. except 3 or 4 i accidentaly erased...Some I answered in more detail than others..For the P.Ms which I gave direction and hints to how to get the fare and not the step by step details it is due to people TAKING OUR FOOD and Feeding there own Web Sites with OUR FOOD.... I say Sorry to those who feel that I did not walk them through the step by step process...

I want to say publicly that Raffles longhaul is a tremendous asset.... he helped explain the "tricks" to me..... and then I was able to go and find my mileage run.

It is nice when other members help out members they do not know... that is why this is a great community.

If members choose to take and post on other sites, that will just cause everything to stop getting posted here.

+1 for wharvey's comments (from my personal POV).
Thanks Raffles Longhaul and everyone who makes the effort to contribute.

Sorry to say that but fares and tricks come to die on FT.

True, but I would argue (and can attest to the fact) that just as many deals are born on FT as are buried here.

To say that FT is the graveyard (my word) of good deals is misguided. Many times it is the FT community that pulls together great fares through the sharing of info.

Only other point I would make is that I think the level of info being provided by RafflesLonghaul and others now is sufficient. I myself don't know how to "trick it" but if I really wanted to execute on an advertised deal, I would read the post posted prior and PM friends and OP's accordingly to see if someone had the time to help out - just as I have helped others out in the past.

FT is a community but it is not a hand out. You have to give to get, IMO.

^

^
Raffles - I have always found your posts to be generous, helpful and would agree with wharvey that you are a great assett to FT.

^


I have followed this thread and feel compelled to add my thoughts.

I am somewhat new (joined Jan 2009) and have thanked my lucky stars that I came across this site by accident. I have enjoyed coming here every day to catch up with what's going on in the world of FFs, and have learned a lot. I have posted, mostly in the Continental forums, but in a few others too, but as yet don't feel I have enough knowledge to share or offer.

I have spent hours reading the stickies, playing around with ITA and FareCompare, and generally following threads and trying to understand the "codes" and "in-speak". So, certainly, I have put in quite a lot of time to try to figure it all out! But, I will say, I am an "aural/oral" learner, rather than a visual learner, and the way I learn is by talking to people, by sharing thoughts, having people "teach" me and then I "get it". So, in some respects, I can feel for those who need a little hand holding by being given more explicit direction. On the other hand, I am 100% in agreement that information shouldn't just be given out like free candy. After all, when we want rewards, we have to work for them! Just like being employed and gaining a salary. So I sympathise with both sides of the fence.

As I am an aural/oral learner, I put out a request a while ago asking if anyone would like a seminar on learning how to construct a MR, and discovered that VJ runs one from time to time. I know that he is keeping his eye on our thread and once we have enough critical mass, I'm sure he will very graciously offer his time to help out those of us who learn syncrhonously rather than asynchronously (sp?). For that, I am truly grateful and admire his generosity. I made the request not because I want something given to me "for free", but because I want to work with others to learn, to share and to develop new friendships with like-minded folk.


I have done a couple of MRs so far (simple runs, to be sure!! but a start), even met up with a couple of FTers in the PC club in HNL (which was so much fun and so enlightening, as they were two really great guys who were enthusiastic and more than willing to share their knowledge and experience with a newbie). I also met up with some fellow FTers at a dinner in NJ, and loved meeting theses wonderful people who are generous, fun and willing to embrace new members.

I just want to say thank you to people like Raffles and others who so generously give us their knowledge, experience and worldy wisdom. To use a phrase from my teenager: You guys Rock!!

FT is a public website - it's unrealistic to expect that anything of value is not gonna be cross posted, reported or abused in some way. FT owners make money by drawing traffic to the site so it's probably not the best place to keep a secret.

Not sure how what I posted contradicts anything that you have mentioned here. :confused:

Well, anyone can come and "get" without "giving" whether we like it or not :(
It's just most "deals" as we perceive them are of no value to general public (who in the right mind would do a MR even if it's 0.5c/eqm) therefore they last longer.
If anything of real value (say a very cheap fare or a price mistake or an obvious loophole) is published it's gonna get shut down in very short timeframe as the exposure can cost the provider some significant losses.
This was not the case in the past when the site was unknown and the audience limited.

I agree with you that most people of the general public do not find MR deal searching worthwhile. However, I disagree that anyone can come and "get without giving". There is a learning curve where significant time must be devoted to learn the FT lingo, "tricks", search tools, develop relationships to warrant a PM reply, etc. that prohibitively act against those who would be freeloaders / airline insiders.

Often times it is only because of the FT community and collaboration resulting from that community that many mistake fares even become bookable.

All that said, I agree that there are times when people who view this site do things we as members would not necessairly agree with. In those cases, I would say shun the disrespectful members by not replying to PMs and, if necessary, do what is needed to protect the community. For example, create a similar posting rqmt for MR Deals as there is for CC.

Pledge
 

Hi, CTOWNFLYER

Since you will not respond to my P.M. I am suggesting you make a pledge not to cross post deals from FT...Some of the other FT members have did just that

If you read through this thread you will see there posts.

I look forward to your post in this thread, so we may restore some confidence..Your actions may help your readers BUT it takes from FTERS..Some FTERS will not post deals because of members crossposting there deals on other sites..Raffles

Here is my thing. I have been a FlyerTalker for some time and have always followed the rules. I don't cross post (indeed, I don't post on any other FF/Fare Deal sites). I don't call to book seats till well after the fare has gone away. I don't even share information with friends and family, other than my fiancee who doesn't share with anyone, and will only book for them if they are going on the trip with me. I think I am pretty trust worthy because of it. Still, I haven't quite been able to figure out the cryptic code which I know is necessary to help preserve these things and need a little help from time to time. Given all of this, I would greatly appreciate a primer/instructions on a specific deal when I PM with questions. Given that the code was removed from the deal lounge thread quite some time ago, I am a bit lost.

Looks like the Dog ripped FT, For their own gain..But it looks like it has backfired this time..
I have seen many fares posted on the dog, as a FARE OF THE DAY which were on FT A DAY OR TWO BEFORE THE DOG POSTED IT ON THEIR SITE..
Will someone from the DOG post here they will not rip fares and other info from FT..

Still lots of tricks out there..:D

Time for a trickier trick fare thread so DOG will chase its own tail ;)

OR a paid FT forum, that also limits access based on history/referrals.@:-)
I like to think that people are more careful with something they paid for rather than something they got for free.
I can see that as the only way for deals to last longer than OPEN/FREE FOR ALL

Me too. I still see tricks out there. Atleast we will try to save from DOGS...

OK Raffles. Of course you will continue to post some good fares right ;).

invitation only access and number of years/number of posts would be good.

Yes, anyone that is not averaging at least 12 posts a year is out :D

I have a low total post count and have only been active for a short time, but anyone with half a brain could figure out some of these deals with a little effort. I think what AFWD did was reprehensible, but I don't see what could be done to stop it short of a subscription based forum with membership limited to referrals only, and even then, it could still be ripped off.

I eventually figured out the FD thing and know things now that could ruin lots of "deals" out there if I was a bad dog. But I am not a bad dog, just a fairly frequent flier and I hope a somewhat useful member of FT.

I think a paid forum goes against the spirit of FT. I stumbled across the site through Google, and over the past year I've studied to learn all the nuances of the FD, though I still have much to learn to get to Raffles's level. As a broke grad. student with a boyfriend overseas and an insatiable desire to travel, I'm not a real mileage runner but just looking for an affordable way to see the world. Now that I'm graduating and might actually have the freedom to pounce on some great flights, the FD loophole has been tightened to almost nil. Am I ticked off? You bet. But then again, it's not like I discovered this trick; in fact I would have never learned about it without FT. I find that, for the most part, the flyertalk forum model works very well. True, some people will join and spam boards out of greed, while others may rip deals to other sites out of ego, but despite the trolls I tend to believe that most members want to help each other out and learn more about traveling, not spoil everyone else's fun.

The Dog has shown absolutely no contrition, and has been fairly pompous about his “important” role assisting the traveling public.

This tells me it’s largely about ego and conceit, and the Dog will attack again given the opportunity.

Yeah, I sent an email and the reply I got was anything but contrite. :td: