"Creative Routing Avaialable"
 

This simple, three word quote, in the body of your post, will let all "in the know" avail themselves of a great miles producing run.

Newbies asking questions can then be directed to one of the many threads on how to build a mileage run.

Why risk the knowledge and advantage we have worked to gain.

Support?????

I agree that if it's something you have to search for and put together...then something like this is great.

The only place I differ is in the situation you and I just discussed...where if the routings seem creative, but are readily available as an option for travel on the website I don't think it is needed.

So my 2 cents is super easy routings I could care less about, but the fancy ones we should keep under wraps.

Matt

If someone does not want to be part of a community that discusses and shares mileage runs, he should not be a part of flyer talk. If that same person does not want to share routing, or prefers his own private circle of MR experts, so be it.

However, I find it troubling that so many are trolling FT to stifle discussion rather than encourage it. This is particularly troubling where the motivation for killing discussion is the desire to keep good deals for themselves to the exclusion of others.

If the justification for this anti-social behavior is the fear that lurking airline agents will discover and repair routings posted on FT, then the OP's compromise (which is well intended) will fail because agents are just as prepared to research routing as any regular FT member. It may make the job a bit tougher, but they can still kill the deal.

Ultimately, IMHO, if you are not community minded and don't like sharing and teaching so you can similarly receive and learn, then stay off FT. Don't come around boasting of the great deals you know of, but won't disclose, because the rest of us aren't worthy of you knowledge.

I value what I have learned here and hope to share back whenever possible.

I'm all for discussion about MR's and whatnot....that's what we are here for.

When I say super fancy routing I mean a routing that is very difficult to put together and may or may not be a mistake. If it something wierd and out of the ordinary like that I don't want to put it out in the open where the airline could easily see and potentially take away my "baby"...lol.

We all need to be open and discuss things, but as this board becomes more and more popular one major thing concerns me...I'm not going to do all the hard work to put together a super complex run and just post it for everyone and their mother who may or may not have even contributed to just book.

This MR Forum's success will possibly be it's eventual downfall as airlines will just keep an eye onn this board and "fix" our great routings. Anybody that knows me knows I am all about discussing routings and MR's, but at the same time I don't want to give somebody a blank check to my hard work. Especially with the end of the year rash of I need 3000 miles, find me a ticket threads, it becomes ever apparent how many people are just lurking and waiting for someone else to do all the work for them.

Hopefully this helps to explain my thoughts,

Matt

Nobody said not to share information. The keys are right there, posted on this board. It will take a minute or two of work to figure all the rules out, but the details are there.

There's no reason to be self-destructive in one's behavior. It's important to note that once a routing is changed, it's changed permanently. We've had several of them change recently.

If there's a chance that a little discretion can preserve a good routing, that will benefit not just the original poster, but everyone in the community. Explicitly posting each and every detail may be far more damaging to the community as a whole than it is helpful to the handful of posters who are too lazy to look up routing rules.

Serious FT contributors know how to look up routing rules. Newbies can refer to the FAQ/Primer to look it up. Anyone needing help need only ask for it. If this isn't the keys to the castle, and community spirit, I don't know what is.

Thank you Channa...you put it much better than myself...haha.

The community spirirt is there if you want it or need it. There are a few people on here, Channa included, that I PM from time to time with small questions or for advice. Not once have they told me no or refused to help me out. I don't have nearly the experience they do, but I'm definitely learning and I've always been willing to help out anyone that takes the time to contact me.

I'll say it again though...there are too many freeloaders on here. I laugh my a$$ off everytime I see a post come up with somebody asking for help to get 3000 miles...it's like buy an f'ing ticket to damn near anywhere not in your backyard and you'll have your miles.

Enough of my rant...if anyone needs MR adivce out of MCI give me a shout and everyone else have a great day...haha.

It sounds like you're pi**ed off about one thing and venting your anger at something else.

Sort of, but I still stand by my points made. I just got a bit "ranty" because of the end of the year rush of freeloaders...lol.

When I post a fare, I always wonder how much people pays attention to it. For instance, how many people realized it was possible to earn about 8700 EQM / $230-ish with this fare ? I did not post details on pupose, looks only 120 people read this thread so far and no replies at all... If you checked the routing, you would realized how lucrative the fare was. Sure, whenever I got PM regarding my posts, I was always glad to help others. BUT I do hope people should do some legwork since all info is always available.

Actually, many people are saying to not share information, yourself included. If you don't want routing shared, you don't want information shared.

As recent posting reflect, people asking for help, sometimes 3000 miles at time, are not always given it. Instead some think its fun to laugh their as_ off at the inexperienced person's needs. Nice community spirit there.

If it is easy to piece together routing from hints dropped on the MR board, then the airline will still find the routing and correct it if it is indeed a mistake.

My personal experience is mixed. I've asked for help after trying to find a good run only to be told, in an increadible showing of arrogance, by others that they have great ideas but I am unworthy of their assistance. More recently I was able to use a posted routing to preserve my gold status for next year.

My point is simple, if you don't want to be part of a community, then don't, but don't bash those that do.

My personal experience is that NOT 1 SINGLE PM sent to members of these boards has ever been answered.

YES! I super support this motion
 

A simple rule like this could preserve valuable runs for many months or even years, instead of spoiling them in days or weeks. I am trying to do my part to communicate by private mail to newbies to help them if I happen to know something helpful. However, if someone is a known "spoiler" based on their past posting record, they won't be getting any valuable information from me.

[QUOTE=ingy]This simple, three word quote, in the body of your post, will let all "in the know" avail themselves of a great miles producing run.

here is a nice person who doesn't get human nature
 

If I learned nothing else as a professional blackjack player, I learned that many times employees are NOT hell-bent on spoiling your game. However, if you are openly discussing the game on the internet and making fools of them, then you turn people who were neutral into your enemies. By blatantly and openly bragging about your creativity in a public forum, then you embarrass airline employees who might otherwise not care or even be amused by a few mileage runners.

That is the real anti-social behavior, shaming people on the job and making them feel or look like fools.

It is only courtesy not to put it right in someone's face and boast all over the internet about how you're putting one over on the industry.

But, for anyone who wants to continue to boast of their inability to keep quiet, thanks for the warning. Call it anti-social, but a route removed from the legal schedule is no good to anyone. Therefore, there is no point in sharing such information with potential spoilers.

I have contacted newbies and helped some of them find creative routes. Have you? My way, some newbies do get some bonus miles. Your way, there's a good chance nobody gets anything.

Please consider that I might know what I'm talking about. While I'm relatively new to the miles game, I have a lot of experience in getting the money from the casinos, and I really don't think the psychology is necessarily all that wildly different. No one likes to look an idiot.

Also, as you yourself say -- "it may make the job a bit tougher, but they can still kill the deal." That is the difference that makes all the difference. If I can easily pick up a $100 bill off the floor I'm going to do it. If chasing the $100 requires all sorts of digging and researching and mind-gaming, then suddenly I've got better things to do with my hours on the job. That's why you put a lock on your front door. Sure, the determined house burglar will still get in. But, in reality, most of the time he won't bother.





[QUOTE=JMR]

If the justification for this anti-social behavior is the fear that lurking airline agents will discover and repair routings posted on FT, then the OP's compromise (which is well intended) will fail because agents are just as prepared to research routing as any regular FT member. It may make the job a bit tougher, but they can still kill the deal.


[QUOTE]

to tclin
 

Sometimes when a person posts an excellent fare, the best thing the rest of us can do is not to reply to your post. Every reply we leave bumps the thread back to the top and increases the risk of unwanted attention. It doesn't mean we don't appreciate your efforts. We do. Very much! If no one has told you lately, THANK YOU!

I don't think that you have ever PM'ed me. I have answered many PM's from newbies. One of them is making UA 1K on MR's by the end of the year (he had only been a 2P until this year).

If you do PM me about MR's, I would ask that your question is specific.

BTW, another poster above had compared this to sharing vs. not sharing. It's not. It is more similar to the "giving a man a fish" vs. "teaching a man to fish" metaphor - but even that isn't quite correct . . .it really is the difference between "teaching a man to fish" vs. "dumping your garbage into the good fishing grounds and killing off many of the fish".

I am one of the biggest supporters of not posting "creative" routings. Take a look at the link in my signature. I think you will see that I have done my part to share the knowledge.