How long until the next CTA Doomsday?
 

These things really rub me the wrong way. I'm glad the latest round of CTA preaching/begging has ended, though.

january 20, roughly the same cuts that were proposed for January 4 will be implemented (half of bus routes, fares increase about 30-60%). Seriously, though, I've read the 650-page audit and, well, study urban policy for a living -- CTA is indeed seriously underfunded.

Posts like OP's are exactly what the CTA fears will happen with all this. People start thinking the CTA is crying wolf, when it's not, it's getting bailed out by the governor at the last minute each time. Love how the 7-10 days seems to have worked out :rolleyes:

Problem is that the politicians can't agree what to do about it, the only thing they agree upon is that such cuts can't happen. Which they're right on. If the politicians allowed those cuts to happen, they'd find themselves out of jobs in short order.

Without commenting on whether the CTA is underfunded or spending the money on the wrong things....

As a relatively new daily user of the CTA (buses and trains, both) it is immediately apparent to me that pretty much the entire infrastructure needs to be ripped out and replaced from the get go. The differences in the CTA experience and those of the DC Metro, the London Tube, BART, even the NYC system and on and on are just plain shocking. The rail stations are old, the tracks are falling apart, everything is filthy.....but I'm not saying anything you all don't already know. I've actually been pleased and surprised at how well the Chicago Card Plus system seems to work - the CTA can get some things right. Now, why does the CTA lack basic things (like signs that tell you when the next train is expected or signs in the cars that tell you the next stop and on which side of the train the doors will open) that are just taken for granted on every other system I regularly ride.

I'm not sure how many of the really bad buses are still in out there, but there was certainly a period of time where the CTA was buying used buses from other cities that had declared them unfit for future service. :confused:

The current great hope is that we'll see a huge infusion of money in connection with the Olympics, but it is just as likely that the dismal circumstances of the CTA will actually turn out to be one reason that we don't get them.

There are actually two needs, an infusion of infrastructure money combined with adequate money to fund the daily operations. I doubt we'll see either out of Springfield.

Yes, you're completely correct. These are just more symptoms of underfunding, though.

The "L" is ~70 years older than DC Metrorail or BART (which we federal taxpayers paid for); NYC Transit spent nearly $40B (in current dollars) on system renewal during the 1980s; a Tube ride will cost you $8.20 -- and yet TfL is no less dependent on public subsidies than CTA. France provides four times as much public subsidy to RATP (i.e., Metro) as Illinois does to RTA.

The "next train 3 min." and "doors open right" signs would require new train signaling systems and new rail cars. Both are multi-billion dollar investments. You'll notice that "next train" announcements are available where the tracks are new/rebuilt, namely the Orange and Green lines. Compare the situation to NYC, whose subway is nearly as old as our "L": $288 million was spent to upgrade the L line's signals, so now it's the one line in the system with "next train" signage. Their new subway cars have automated announcements; that cost nearly $2 billion. This stuff makes the system much more usable, but ain't cheap.

I remember the used Seattle buses well. They're all gone now, but it was pretty shocking to see how quickly they got beat up here, much of it due to vandalism and road salt.

I'm really concerned about the governor's plan, which sounds like it will buy off the CTA with just enough operating funding for another year -- while milking the new city casino for $10 billion to gold-plate new roads for a few thousand drivers downstate.

Why would that require new signals and cars? They're doing it without new busses on the 20 bus right now. Do it with GPS. Now, why that trial hasn't completed and expanded system-wide is mind-boggling.

Many stations on the red line have been renovated in the last several years. They are currently renovating all of the stations on the Brown Line. They did the Green Line a few years ago. They're replacing track on the Blue and Red lines. It's BILLIONS of dollars and county and city taxes are already outrageous. Your post suggests that the infrastructure is being ignored.

The main problem is operating expenses and the General Assembly. Nothing passes the legislature unless the downstate legislators get their share of pork as compensation for voting for things that the city needs. The good news is that they finally have somebody running the CTA that has a brain. We'll see what he does with the money he does get.

The bus system is being expanded systemwide.
http://www.chicagobus.org/news/bus-t...nds-systemwide

Trains, on the other hand, go underground where GPS doesn't work. Replacing the signals will also allow higher speeds, greater train frequency, and better reliability. (Ever have the train stop for "signal clearance" when there's obviously no train in sight, then see the operator drive through?)

Hmm, wonder how that's going. If the whole fleet is supposed to be done by early next year, I would think you'd see the ones out of North Park pretty soon.

Oh... uh... duh...

Wasn't thinking about the underground part (at least for Red/Blue). And yeah, I've read plenty on how antiquated the signals are.

Like paytonc, I earn my living in this area (although my personal specialty is more in the software for regulatory compliance and investment analysis areas), and in fact we work for sometimes competing and sometimes collaborating firms.

You might be interested to read the following, especially the transit portions, to understand how infrastructure condition and performance makes its way into the Federal process:
http://wwwcf.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/2006cpr/index.htm

Ahahahahaha
 

Jan 20th = next "Doomsday" :rolleyes:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/w...ticleid=129074

These guys crack me up!

here we go again

What part of this cracks you up? The CTA people, the legislature, or the governor? And why the sarcasm after "Doomsday". :td:

Every single bus I take on a daily basis is on the new list of cuts. This is serious stuff for real people who depend on the CTA every day. My daily commute will be a living nightmare, and all because the idiots on Springfield can't do a blasted thing.

Now, I could mention that it took four people in a fancy CTA car to hang those elaborately laminated signs at every bus stop - direct observation on my part, and on a Sunday, probably earning triple time - but that's another story. :mad:

What part of this cracks you up? The CTA people, the legislature, or the governor? And why the sarcasm after "Doomsday". :td:

Every single bus I take on a daily basis is on the new list of cuts. This is serious stuff for real people who depend on the CTA every day. My daily commute will be a living nightmare, and all because the idiots on Springfield can't do a blasted thing.

Now, I could mention that it took four people in a fancy CTA car to hang those elaborately laminated signs at every bus stop - direct observation on my part, and on a Sunday, probably earning triple time - but that's another story. :mad:

Not surprised.

One time getting off a Metra train in Flossmoor, I saw SEVEN guys standing around on a remortaring project for about 10-15 bricks that were coming loose in one spot. I guess it takes one mason, one assistant, and five $80,000 supervisors for a job like that.

I should always carry a tiny video camera to document stuff like this to roll out when they whine about not having enough resources.

The part of it that cracks me up is the fact that every so often they start crying "Wolf!", and after hearing "Oh no, give us more money, the sky is falling!" however many times in the last 12 months, only to be told at the last minute "Oh no, it's OK really", I don't really believe them.

Of course, that's just my (admittedly totally uninformed) opinion. I don't know anything about local politics or the actual funding of the CTA, so I could be totally wrong, and they could very well have just staved off financial Doomsday each of those times. I just personally find that unlikely.

In each of the last two instances, the governor bailed them out by advancing them money but not by changing the actual funding, which only the Legistature can do (my oversimplification of the situation). This has led to a spiraling to the point where the situation just compounds itself. The January 20th reductions are much more severe than the earlier ones since the CTA has effectively used up all the cash they would have had if funding had continued at the old rate. The announced plan eliminates over HALF of the bus routes, including essentialy every north-side express route. That's going to dump thousands of extra passengers on the already over-crowded Red line, forcing more people into their cars and onto the already maxed out expressways, and so it goes. Meanwhile, with each passing day of full-capacity operation the CTA digs themselves into a bigger and bigger hole. Should they have gone ahead with more modest cutbacks earlier? Very possibly, but hindsight.....

If I were mayor of Chicago I'd be looking to cut every single non-essential service I could find in order to support the CTA, but I don't think there really is much discretionary money there either. Obvious things, like closing recreational facitities, are in the hands of the Park District, which is yet another taxing body. I'm not even sure that Chicago could legally subsidize the CTA, since it is part of the larger RTA/Metra/PACE system which I don't fully understand.

Bottom line, the CTA - problem ridden as it is - is about to collapse unless some miracle occurs in the legistature, which I'm really doubting will happen. It is about to get ugly in Chicago, transporation-wise.

Something I need to read up on is my understanding that once CTA drivers are laid-off they go into some status that would require them to be retrained and recertified, meaning that the CTA can't just close down for a day or two, get miraculous funding, and then resume normal operations the next day. Like I said - Ugly.

it's not really crying wolf but, from a PR standpoint, it always looks that way. I wish Springfield could just get it together!

it's not really crying wolf but, from a PR standpoint, it always looks that way. I wish Springfield could just get it together!!

Also...the political cynic in me just wonders how much stalling is going on because no one wants to fix the problem...yet.

If Chicago gets the Olympic bid, the amount of federal and private money that will flow in to they city (and the transit system) might make it attractive for the folks in Springfield to sit on their hands and hope that, by only patching it up now, they can get someone else to pay for it later.

You're really very wrong. The funding formulas are set by the state government, and they need to be changed. What has happened each time is that the governor and the assembly wait until it gets down to the wire, then still don't do anything and instead come up with some emergency money to stave off the route eliminations. The CTA is really unhappy with this, because they know very well that a lot of people think like you do, that they're just crying "wolf".

I'd be happy if Springfield would cough up enough money to "patch it up", problem is they aren't even doing that.

A colleague just pointed out to me that there is also some related issue having to do with pension savings amounting to $10M per month. The legislature also hasn't acted on this, leaving them another $10M short each month.

All I know is, you could let me loose inside these organizations and I bet my life I could find a ton of money wasted.

They could start with about 50% of the supervisors and hardly lose anything.

The deal that GA didn't act on had to do with the Union and changing pensions plans, etc. So now that progressive deal with the union is shot.

Also, by law the CTA must put all those signs up. Talk about a waste of $$$$ 3xs over now. Can't wait to see what 'fix' they come up with on Jan. 18th because we know that no one will be in Springfield on a Sat. (the 19th).

No need; we the taxpayers spent $1 million on an exhaustive audit. I invite you to read the 650-page report from the Auditor General (I have!) -- sixth from the top:
http://www.auditor.illinois.gov/Audi...nce-Audits.asp

Like I said above, the cynicism is simultaneously perfectly understandable and yet maddeningly unwarranted.

I could list out all the various revenue tricks that the state has used to buy a few additional months, or weeks, or days, of transit service over the past FIVE YEARS, but I have a flight to catch in seven hours.

And yes, every single time they go through the motions, CTA incurs several million dollars in legally obligated costs (like mailing out layoff notices) which is just money that our idiot "governor" and nincompoop "general assembly" have thrown down the drain. CTA's unions accepted a substantial cut to their pensions, but understandably made it contingent on CTA actually fulfilling its pension obligations (which, like maintenance, it has ignored for years in order to keep the buses going) -- which, in turn, requires the legislature to change CTA's enabling legislation. Of course, TPTB don't care: Rod's up in his private jet buying Wrigley Field, Emil's pondering how to buy off his preachers with nonexistent casino spoils, and Daley is off buying up IOC votes for his next contractor payoff. Meanwhile, the "L" literally crumbles to dust.

I'm sorry, is my disgust showing?

Has anyone noticed the recorded announcements on the buses which go something like:

"Due to insufficient state funding, CTA will be forced to cut services on ....."

and then a pause like it's getting another recording (in a slightly different tone, I believe), then

"..... January 20th ....."

then going back to the same voice:

"..... Contact your state legislators, etc, etc"

One gets the feeling they just got the recording the used last time and cut and paste a recording with the new "Doomsday" date over it.

Sounds like the General Assembly has FINALLY reached an agreement - which will be an increase in the State sales tax. The Governor said he'll sign the bill if it provides for free rides for seniors. So, back to the House and Senate, but it sounds like the crisis is just about over.

Do you have the details of this, please? What's the new sales tax gonna be, and how much of the extra revenue is going to the CTA?

Thanks.

The legislation would increase the sales tax by a quarter of a percentage point in Cook County and a half percentage point in the five collar counties, which could use the extra money for transportation or public safety. The bill would also give Chicago the power to raise the city's real-estate transfer tax, a requirement under the deal that was first put together last summer.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...i_tab01_layout

So, I think it all goes to RTA/CTA

Gotta love Blago making up a new requirement at the last minute.

Not sure I completely agree with it. I would have liked to see some some sort of income limit on the free senior rides. I'm fine with helping out those on fixed incomes, but what about professionals over 65 who are commuting and still earning plenty? Why should they get a free ride?

But, if it ends our long regional nightmare of constant doomsdays (and if this really is a long term solution so that we don't see this again next year or the year after), I'm for it.

And when the poor or disabled want to ride free, are they any less deserving? He is a nightmare.

If this reported deal goes through, at least the taxes will sort of fall on the people using the service, and those benefiting from the decreased road traffic and construction.

Collar county people commuting in and out travel further than Cook County people on the system. And downstate people surely don't get much use out of the CTA. Now if we can only whack them on highway projects.

I think that public transportation is actually mostly a bargain as is, so my preference would have been to raise fares, even though my wife commutes by Metra every day. Roughly $100 a month (deductible, as it comes out of her salary pre-tax) for a ~20-mile commute each way seems like a steal to me. She'd spend that in a week driving, not to mention parking, and it's faster.

So, tonight he's saying he wants to add even more free riders. What an idiot. Judy Barr Topinka could never have been THIS bad. :td:

Yeah, it's enough to make a Republican out of you.

Oh, wait... I already am.

Well, better the worst Governor ever, than the worst President ever, but that's a couple dozen threads in another forum. :D

Uh oh -- evidently Blago reads this, since he's already offered free rides to disabled people.

Part of the entire point of transit is that it's cheaper than driving. Heck, it's nowhere near as fast or convenient, and it's environmentally superior, so at the very least it should be cheaper.

Yes, well, at one time Abraham Lincoln was the worst President ever, and so was Harry Truman.

Opinions change over time.

Well, apparently, with the bailout there will still have to be a fare increase because of all the free rides.


Uh huh. I'm sure that's a statement in support of the Governor. :rolleyes:

No, Blago DEFINITELY sucks. Bad. Not much apparent disagreement there, no matter what your party.

Remember a few years ago all the speculation about him having a national future, perhaps as VP candidate? Boy, does that look funny now.

He never was this nuts when he was in Congress. I think winning governor went to his head.