Moving to Chi-Town?
 

An opportunity has opened up within my company, and I'm seriously considering it. The office is in a suburb of Chicago, Northbrook. I have visited Chicago many times, and have always had a good time, and left with a good impression of the city.

And yes, I have seen the thread about the murders in Chicago. Not to sound like a snob, but it appears that the vast majority of these murders take place in south Chicago, and I am ruling that out as a possible place to leave. Yes, shootings can happen anywhere but, after 12 years in Phoenix, I am willing to risk it. :)

Couple of questions ...

I am looking at Lakeview as far as apartments go. How is it? I am a single guy, and quality is more important to me that space. Two bedrooms/1 bath is plenty. $1200 a month reasonable?

I would really, really, prefer to not bring a car. A big part of my dislike of Phoenix is you have to drive everywhere. I have taken the L as a tourist around town, from the airport, etc. How is it on an everyday basis? How do you go grocery shopping? From what I can see, Lakeview to Northbrook is do-able by bus/L/train, but it does not appear to be quick. Can I realistically get around without a car?

Anything you would tell new residents? Have I lost my mind? Did anything shock you when you moved there? In Phoenix for example, my utilities and car insurance doubled (from Iowa). Food (especially fruit/veggies) are dirt cheap.

I would add that the weather is not a deterrent for me. Indeed, a big part it, is I really do miss the snow and the green in the summer (I have lived in Colorado and Iowa).

Taxes in IL are pretty awful. Personal income tax is 5.5% right now (recently raised from 3%). Property tax is high. Sales tax is high (6.25% state plus local taxes all in upwards of 9% in some places). The state government is operating in huge deficit. A few years ago (and maybe now) they couldn't pay their bills. They were issuing IOUs instead.

These are things that you should consider before accepting the job. You really don't want to show up and find out that you are worse off.

have you talked to enviroian (doing that move) yet? :D

Taxes are not something I considered. Thank you. Though ... sales taxes are higher in Phoenix (9.01% vs. 8 and change in Chicago), though is appears income tax rates are definitely higher in IL. The rates do impact any COL increase I may receive.

Speaking of taxes ... how much does a pack of cigarettes go for in Chicago?

Moving to Chi-Town?
 

Unless right in downtown I wouldn't try it without a car. It isn't like PHX or LA where everything is a 20 min drive, but it isn't Manhattan either.

With US departing *A might as well leave PHX.

I spent most of my 20's in Chicago - left there about 10 years ago. My thoughts:
Wrigleyville/Lakeview/Lincoln Park - there's not a huge variation in neighborhoods (the South half of Lincoln Park being the most expensive of the 3). All have plenty of young people/restaurants/bars/etc. A 2BR for $1,200 will be a stretch - there will be a large compromise in terms of the quality of the building or the location relative to transit.

The commute to Northbrook will be a real challenge on the El/Metra. You can get around Chicago without a car, e.g. for grocery shopping, but it can make it a bit more difficult, depending on where you might live in Lakeview relative to the grocery store. Lakeview's not small - living near Clark/Broadway is different from being west near Southport (I'm not expressing a preference for either one).

Other than that, Chicago is a great town and can be a whole lot of fun. :)

The only way I see you pulling this off is if you can walk to your office from the train station (or your employer provides a shuttle) and you live somewhere like Logan Square, which lets you walk to the Healy station on Metra's Milwaukee District North line.

Realistically, that scenario puts you at a commute of about an hour door-to-door, each way. Living in Lakeview and taking public transportation increases that by at least 50% and introduces the bus variable, which means there will be times you miss the train and are late to work.

I've done a reverse commute for about a decade in both Chicago and NYC. Trust me when I say that your sanity depends on keeping it as simple as possible. Travel and/or the ability to work from home once in a while helps a lot.

Oh, and groceries: http://www.peapod.com/

You can easily live all over the city without a car (though I wouldn't want to), especially in Lakeview, but I certainly wouldn't work in Northbrook without one.

As a native Chicagoan, I am in full agreement with everything said so far.

If you're working in Northbrook, your commute will be A LOT less hellish if you don't live in Lakeview. Slogging your way through traffic for at least an hour twice a day will be enough to drive you to insanity. I strongly recommend living somewhere closer - like Evanston.

Evanston (home to Northwestern University) will result in a 30ish minute commute to Northbrook. It's a suburb, yes, but it's also the first suburb outside of Chicago (the southern border of Evanston is the northern city limit of Chicago). It's also kind of a fake city with a walkable downtown that has a lot of nice restaurants, bars, stores, etc. The El and Metra run into Evanston, so it's easy to get into Lakeview if you want to go drinking and not drive home. City taxis also will take you to/from Evanston easily. In other words, there's plenty to do if you want to stay in Evanston, and it's easy to get to the places you want to be in the city. It's quiet and pretty (right on the lake). There's also the college town aspect.

If you do decide to go with Lakeview, I'd err on the side of living in west Lakeview so you're closer to the highway and don't have to deal with city traffic just to get on the highway and sit in traffic there. And there are lots of other neighborhoods that are great (and that I'd personally prefer to Lakeview) along the highway.

If you're interested in learning more, PM me (or I guess posting on here would be better so everyone sees). I lived in Evanston for three years in grad school. I've also lived in Lincoln Park and the South Loop and grew up in the area.

Good ideas - Evanston is the best place for suburban life and still be close to the city. Another option and the hot place to live now is the West Loop. It's just a couple blocks to I94 (Edens to Northbrook).

Northbrook DOES NOT equal Chicago. Almost a different state. I cannot imagine living in Chicago and commuting to Northbrook. You'll spend more time on the road than actually living.

Well, it would beat LIVING in Northbrook. ;)

I live in Lake View and I honestly wouldn't even consider a job in Northbrook due to the commute. The reverse commute traffic is pretty bad, as there a lot of jobs in Northbrook/Glenview/Deerfield/etc filled by younger people who want to live in the city.

Adding on to what others have said. Getting to Northbrook from Lake View either by transit or car won't be pretty. For transit the single biggest question is how close the office in Northbrook is to some Metra station. The Northbrook station is downtown, which is not where a lot of the big office buildings are. Most of those are the Edens. If your company has a shuttle from a Metra station, you can make that work. It'd be even better if they had a shuttle from Glencoe or Braeside on the UP-N line because that is a lot easier to get to. So, where is your office?

I will also echo what nerd said, at $1200/month for a 2BR/1BA, you'll be compromising something. You might be better off trying to find a large 1BR at that price. But, depending on the office part, there might be some better locations we could suggest. eg, if UP-N is an option, I'd suggest Lincoln Square or Andersonville close to the Ravenswood stop.

Thank you both for the suggestions. I will look into Evanston. I currently live in a suburban college town and do like it. I didn’t have my heart set on the Lakeview neighborhood – it just looked nice. The West Loop neighborhood looks a little too close to the "fun" that Chicago has been experiencing over the past two years, but perhaps I am being paranoid? It does appear to be much closer to the city, which is what I was aiming for.

It does appear that having a car, while perhaps not absolutely necessary, it going to make life much easier, which is fine.

I do find it interesting that hour long commutes are described as “hellish” and “unbearable” though. In Phoenix and Denver (and I would imagine in LA and San Francisco), they aren’t that unusual (though of course, that is part of the reason I want to get out of here). Right now I have a 15 mile, 30-40 minute commute each way, which isn’t horrible, but is about my limit.

What other neighborhoods would you recommend I look at? If I will be driving, I’m thinking somewhere halfway between Chicago and Northbrook?

It is right off the 294 and Sanders Road by Citation Lake. Appears to be across town from the station (though there is an employer shuttle).

Some thoughts from a native Chicagoan (grew up in Highland Park, which is directly north of Northbrook, and lived for years in Lakeview):

You can live in Chicago without a car. I did for almost 10 years. If you live near the Red or Blue lines, they run 24/7, as do many of the main bus routes. In my experience, owning a car in Chicago is expensive and frustrating. However, most transplants to Chicago own cars - as far as I can tell, because they grew up with cars in some suburb somewhere and are bizarrely incapable of giving up the crutch. If you really need to buy three tons of toilet paper at one go, Zipcar is very easy and far more economical than paying for gas, insurance, etc.

Lakeview is a decent neighborhood, although it's become much blander than it used to be, as has much of the North Side. It's now pretty much indistinguishable from Lincoln Park and Bucktown - home to frat bros and woo girls from Big 10 and Midwest state schools, who spend their time shopping at big-box stores, getting plastered at sports bars, and eating at mediocre Mexican restaurants with margarita specials. Even the gay bars (Lakeview was once known as Boystown before the Bro Invasion of the late 90s) are generally lame.

Other (and cheaper) neighborhood options would be Ravenswood or Roscoe Village, which are both a bit west of Lakeview and haven't totally turned frat yet. Edgewater (which also includes Andersonville) is pretty cool as well and more convenient to north suburban commutes. All these neighborhoods still have their local character intact to varying degrees, with a nice mix of local businesses and places to hang out, but without attracting every douchebro in the Midwest. Edgewater is also right by the lake, with great beach and park access for biking, running, volleyball, etc. You can probably find a very nice two-bedroom for $1200 or less in these areas.

As has already been mentioned upthread, Evanston is a pretty cool city as well, although in my opinion if you're not a Northwestern student or a suburban empty nester, you may feel out of place. Also, it's more expensive than the neighborhoods I mentioned above for rent.

The West Loop/Near West Side to me feels very synthetic. Lots of new condo buildings and flash restaurants, but no feeling of a real neighborhood. It was very industrial until quite recently, and while convenient to the Loop feels very much like a soulless place. It's got kind of a rich dbag vibe to be honest - lots of 20/30-something bros working in finance, "day trading" etc. Also, I don't think there's much of a rental market in that area, except perhaps for people renting out luxury condos.

Crime in Chicago is, as you noted, highly concentrated in terms of both geography and demographic. In fact, the murder rate was much higher in the 1990s. I think the reasons Chicago's crime problem gets so much attention right now is that NY's rate has plunged, so Chicago's headline numbers look so much bigger. Exercise common sense, and you're likely to be fine.

The city-to-Northbrook commute sounds like a fate worse than death, but then again, so does living in Phoenix, and you seem to have survived. I know people who have done commutes like that using Metra and a shuttle, and they seem to do OK. That would be the one thing in your scenario that gives me pause, though.

A bunch of large corporate campuses there, and as others mentioned it's a relatively easy commute from Evanston. I would strongly consider it; it's as close to the city life as you can get without actually being in the city, although some parts of it aren't really nice. East of Ridge, north of Main and south of Noyes is where I would look.

Not many other options between the city and Northbrook. There are parts of Mount Prospect and Glenview that can be somewhat interesting, but those are suburbs, no question about it. ;)

1. No one who lives here calls it "Chi-town."
2. Sales tax in the city is 9.25%, I believe.

I figured. I wanted a headline that would get attention by annoying some natives. ;)

Thanks. Roscoe Village looks like a possibilty.

The West Loop sounds like Hell and out of my price range to boot.

Yeah, the commute isn't ideal, but I feel lucky in that I can move there with a job in hand. I can't imagine moving there unemployed. My commute in Phoenix is 30-45 minutes, so as long as it isn't any longer than that, I can deal with it.

OMG I could really live with that. I have a normal, well-paid job (not a movie star or anything) and pay 52% income tax over a great portion of what I earn. I couldn't even begin to dream what it must be like to pay 5.5%

That's only the piece paid to Illinois, it doesn't include the amounts paid to the US Government.

It's also about half the rate that residents of New York City and California pay, also excluding payments to the US Government.

Yeah but the services you get for that 52% most Americans would invade for. So be careful what you wish for. We're always itching for another de facto state.

As for the commute. I have a friend that works on the Navy Pier and lived in Lakeview. That was a good commute. Now he moved further out to save money on rent and has an hour plus commute and is hating it. Be careful which commute to select.

Summer is approaching. Make friends with someone who has a boat.

Check and double checkthe actual commute times carefully and include snow, rain, not including construction. We just had a snow a few days ago (so a fair amount of weather), and it often has a significant impact on rush hour, well, anytime actually. City to 'burb' unless nearby to nearby is never 30-45 minutes, and in precipitation often 90+ minutes. Non rush hour times can still have a fair amount of traffic. Wouldn't discount it.

Agree with all the other descriptions, pretty good analysis.

(Lincoln park resident 23 years)

I'm a current Lakeview resident, I would agree with what most everyone says here. The reverse commute is about as bad as the normal commute, especially on the Kennedy/Edens which is how you'd get to Northbrook. I used to reverse commute out near O'Hare, and the expressways were so bad it took me less time to take city streets.

Lakeview has definitely gotten more corporate, but I still think it's a great neighborhood and there's plenty of families and young professionals in addition to the chads and trixies.

Personally, I think the main advantage to Lakeview or Lincoln Park is you're close to the lake. Same goes for Andersonville or Evanston.

Yes, take it from someone who doesn't live there. ;) I lived in Lakeview for many years and love it in the West Loop - the only thing I miss is the lake. But, whatever you do, you better decide quickly, before the frat bros, woo girls, douche bros and dbags have taken over the entire city. :D

You will have to fill me in on the terminology?

As with all things internet, I take it with a grain of salt. The West Loop neighborhood looks (geographically) to be perfect, but I don't want to live somewhere where I am "house poor" and feel the need to keep up with the Joneses. I mentioned $1200 and while that isn't my limit (I'm keeping my place in Tempe), $1500 to $1750 is probably my max.

Before I moved from Des Moines to Phoenix (really DEN-DSM-PHX), I seriously considered Chicago, but felt that while I could have afforded an apartment in the city, I could have afforded little else. I just don't want to get stuck in that situation.

Lakeview was my first choice because I know that is where Boystown is (and I am gay), but I know that may drive prices up somewhat needlessly. I like the idea of Evanstown since (at least in my limited experience) it is hard to go wrong with college towns, but any further advice is greatly appreciated.

I did apply for the job (in a somewhat drunken, excited moment), so we will see how it goes from here.

I really appreciate everyone's advice. Please keep it coming.

I think they're similar to woo girls and douche bros.

Sorry :) What the others said, d-bags/woo girls, though I think it's more of a Chicago-specific term.

For a more nuanced discussion, I direct you to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_(slang)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trixie_(slang)

I'll be quiet now.

With regard to soul-killing commutes, it is worth noting that on the commuter trains, one can get work done, read, or the like. In my mind, a one-hour commuter train commute in Chicago is far better than a 30-45 minute car commute in heavy traffic. That being said, during the 6 years I was in Chicago, I found myself moving closer and closer to downtown until finally I bought a condo in the S. loop and happily gave up driving.

Do look at your neighborhood's car sharing options. I-Go is a non-profit car share that is awesome: http://igocars.org/.

I posted a reply, but I guess it didn't post, so if that shows up, sorry. :) Apparently Chad and Trixie is more of a Chicago-specific term, which refers to a specific type of woo girl/d-bags. Anyway, if you want to live here, it's always good to know the terminology. ;)

I did a commute from Lakeview to Lake Forest every day for seven months and it was typically 1-1.5 hours each way in rush hour, and just a few minutes of it was the Northbrook to Lake Forest leg. If you can adjust your work hours to get there by 7:00 AM, you'd avoid most of the rush, but the commute home is bad from about 3PM to 7:30PM.

After seven months, I said "No thanks" to that project -- it wasn't worth 3 hours a day in the car.

Just to throw in my 2c's, I live in North Lincoln Park (borders Lakeview to the south) and commuted to Northbrook for about a year. Usually left LP at 7:15, leaving NB at 4 to head back. Fairly consistently was a 1 hour 15min travel time each way. While you would think the reverse commute would be better, a large portion of the trip is on 90/94 (the Kennedy) which has reversible lanes in the middle, which actually swings the benefit over to the normal commuter pattern. Snow and rain can degrade things quickly.

It really blew. I drank more coffee than I ever did. If I were to go the public trans route (get downtown, take the metra, take a shuttle) it would have easily been two hours. The reverse commute metra trains generally make every stop, no expresses.

$1200 a month for a 2/1 is low, I'd say any place under $1500 isn't going to be worth your while in Lakeview. Boystown/East Lakeview will be a haul to get to the freeway going across on Diversey, Belmont or Addison. Wicker Park/Bucktown are both good areas closer to the freeway, though I'd try to stay east of Western Ave if possible.
Personally, I like the West Loop, but depends on your tastes.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about Chicago or Northbrook, happy to help!

Just spent the weekend in Chicago. $10.99 a pack at the Walgreens!

Glad I brought enough for the weekend. Good incentive to quit!

Well, that is about $200 a month I will be saving over Phoenix. No way will I pay that. I will just be one of those annoying friends who bums them off people at bars. ;)

I got my mother, brother and a few friends onto the E-cig recently and while it's not quite the same (some compare it to a real book & a kindle. Similar but just not the same). The starter kit was 60 bucks at walgreens and 5 cartridges (equivalent to 5+packs of cigs) costs 10-15 dollars depending on where you buy them.

Cheaper in the 'burbs. :)

+1 for Logan Square. It's also close to the expressway and you can get more apartment for the $$$ than you can in Lakeview.

If the OP is set on City living, then River West / West Town (near Ogden/Chicago/Milwaukee), Wicker Park and Bucktown all have relatively easy expressway access...though you're still probably looking at 45-60 min commute.

Don't most serious addicts go to Indiana on the weekends?

As ILoveParis already stated, it's basically a local term for douchebros and woo girls. :D

http://digamma.net/btfwiki/Lincoln_Park_Trixie

Ah, you should have stated that earlier - that somewhat changes my advice on neighborhoods.

I'd even more seriously recommend looking at Edgewater/Andersonville - this is a neighborhood that's heavily but not predominantly gay, with some good bars and places to hang out. I find it to be much more of a relaxed scene than Lakeview, which isn't even that gay anymore. Uptown, while still a bit sketchy in parts, is another option - there are some bars there, including a huge gay sports bar that I personally find a bit annoying, but lots of people like. Of course YMMV.

Lakeview still has the biggest concentration of gay bars in the city, but the neighborhood really has become a lot bro-ier - Wrigley Field is right next to Halsted Street, the city's historic gay strip, but the frat bros there would not necessarily be what you'd describe as gay-friendly. I find the neighborhoods farther north to be more mixed, which is nice.

I have never heard of any gay people being happy in Evanston. It's a suburb, with absolutely no gay life except for whatever Northwestern's on-campus groups are doing. Expect that you would find your social life revolving around going in and out of the city all the time, which means you'd lose the ability to spontaneously meet up with friends for drinks, etc. and would have to deal with the schlep of getting home to the suburbs late at night if you do go out.

I'm not recommending the West Loop for the OP, but just wanted to correct the assumption that there isn't any rental there. There may not be many "rental buildings" but there are a million condos available for rent. So my so that my daughter is going crazy living in a building where it feels like she's the only owner actually living in her unit. Overrun with renters.

Curious, but I find that "keeping up with the Joneses" has very little to do with the neighborhood you live in. It's city living...you could find yourself going months or years with nothing more than a nodding acquaintance to the people who live within blocks of you but become close friends with people spread throughout the city. When I compare my home to what friends have, it's very rare that I'm comparing it to people who live in my own neighborhood.