Pinniped, I do see your point. But they are giving exactly the points that were promised, aren't they? Your example of the .8 banana isn't analogous. More analogous would be if bananas as a whole became a lot cheaper --- suddenly your 50 coupons aren't worth nearly as much because one banana isn't worth nearly as much.

Now maybe the real-life value of those Marriott points has changed, but so has just about everything in life. I've lost count of the things that have lost value.

Did people really expect that award redemption levels would never change... ever? That's not very realistic. Nor would it be realistic for Marriott to promise some kind of arbitrary exchange value in perpetuity. A company would be crazy to do that, because conditions change over the years. So they give the 100,000 points that were promised. I'm sure there was language in the contract that covered all this.

So I just don't get how the "bait and switch" concept applies here at all, unless Marriott was somehow being deceptive when the timeshares were originally sold, causing the person to have to buy a more expensive timeshare than was advertised. That's what bait and switch means.

What the OP and "TravelExpert" seem to be complaining about is that points were devalued. Well, welcome to the club! We all got hit with that, and I feel their pain. But it ain't "bait and switch". That's all I'm saying.

One of the many reasons I refuse to buy a timeshare. I always thought about the 100K points for a trade and thought 1) this isn't even enough for a week redemption at a cat 4 property (under old program 105K) a category level that I have never stayed at for leisure, 2) when they increase redemption amounts I will be screwed even more.

With the recent increase in point redemption for top tier properties from 150K points to 240K points, an increase of 60%, MVCI would have to offer me an exchange rate of 384000 points for me to even remotely consider purchasing a time share property. That would cover the cost of a top tier property in point redemption over the next 14-20 years, assuming increase ever 7-10 years.

Two can play this game. Now they won't take my offer, any more than I would take theirs.

Regarding the TS offer being bait and switch, no way. They extended an offer with absolutely no guarantee of keeping redemption levels where they were, or with conditions allowing for increasing points for exchanges should the Marriott Reward program change. The T&Cs even say that the Marriott Rewards program may be changed and/or terminated at any time (paraphrased).

IMO, the only people that truly benefit from time share ownership are families that always use their weeks at their home resort every year, and fully utilize the max occupancy in lieu of otherwise booking 2 or 3 hotel rooms, and who are young enough to be able to do this for at least 20 years. A family with at least 2 young children comes to mind. Looking at the demographics at MVCI properties, it looks like this group picked up on the that value.

Well put, aaupgrade. ^

Another way to look at it too is if someone wants to loan me $1M I'll be glad to pay that same $1M back in 50 years......unfortunately I doubt I'll find anyone willing to loan me the $1M because the cost of inflation would eat away at the $1M over those years

In speaking to a colleague over lunch, he suggested a method that really made me think.

Instead of the constant devaluation that we all face, i.e., more points needed for a night, category inflation, etc. why doesnt Marriott (and the rest of the industry) just reduce the number of points a person earns. In other words instead of earning 10 points/$ for my stays I'd now earn maybe 9 point/$ or in other words a 10% inflation. I can still redeem my points at the same rate as always, I just need to spend more $$ now to get to the same number of points.

What do the rest of you think? Would this approach be more palatable to the majority of the people? I do realize that there is a finite number of times this can happen and maybe what next is another thread, but I did like this idea a lot more than what I saw happen last year.

I just tried to book SPG timeshare room with SPG points and I couldn't figure out how to do it... Does SPG offer this option? Is it a good value?

I don't stay at Hyatts. Are their timeshare units bookable with Hyatt points? Is it a good value for the points required?

That won't happen because one of the reasons for devaluation is to reduce the value of existing liabilities. Also, it would be too transparent and not be attractive to market, especially to new customers.

That's a good point. There's also the factor that we've gotten used to a high number of points per stay and per megabonus. If the point earnings were to be cut, the perception would be that we're getting less. And we'd start looking at other programs that still offer "big points". It's human nature. Even if Marriott were to carefully explain it to all of us, it would still be hard to swallow simply because it's a change from what we're used to.

Just a few months ago, many posters were ridiculing Marriott's new megabonus because it didn't offer enough points. Whew, Marriott would have to do a REALLY good job of convincing everyone that less is more... Or even the same.

I'm pretty sure that Websters defines "reactionary" as "members of hotel and airline reward programs". :D

The psychological factor is huge, and I implied that in my statement about being difficult to market a lower earning rate. Reducing earning levels would also mess up redeeming travel packages, and we know the airlines are not going to hold their redemption levels flat. Somehow, I don't think spend 270,000 points for a category 8 package and receive 30,000 miles on AA/UA is going to excite people.

A good chunk of marketing is making things look more attractive than they really are. If most people realized that, they would not overpay for stuff, especially travel.

Regarding hotels: with all the noise about the downgrading of the MR system, everyone seems to forget that Marriott has two very different sets of customers who have competing interests. The first group is the people you find here, the people who stay in hotels. The second group are the people/organizations that own those hotels. Remember that Marriott owns very, very few properties and is actually only a hotel management company.

Our group was the loser during the recent MR changes and the hotel owners were the winners to an extent. Awards cost us significantly more than they did in the past, but availability is generally better. Because of the increase in award costs, the properties are now being paid more for them by Marriott than they have in the past. (This bit of information was offered by Marriott Concierge early on when the MR changes were announced.) Also, I would be surprised if Marriott itself didn't benefit financially with the changes. After all, they are sitting in the middle determining what awards cost us and what they will pay the hotels for the award nights.

When I think about the other changes people have complained over the last few years (concierge lounges closed on the weekend, no upgrades to suites, etc), I sometimes wonder about how much of these changes were driven by the hotel owners. So for Marriott, remember it is a balancing act about keeping two very different groups of customers happy.

Regarding timeshares: Marriott makes money here by developing and selling the timeshare resorts. Additionally, they then contract to continue management of the resorts for about 10% of the resort's annual revenues.

The owners of Marriott's timeshares have taken a real beating over the last few years. Originally, when renting out weeks for owners, Marriott would take a 40% commission and the owners would net the rest. The commission was high but when the rents could be $400-500/night so an owner could net $2,000 for a good week. Now, Marriott will only make a flat offer to the owner for a rental which is always must less than what owners used to receive.

Also, there has always been the option where the owner could turn in their week to Marriott and received a fixed number of MR points as others have noted. Obviously, they have taken the same 'hair cut' as the rest of us in increased award costs.

Lastly, Marriott stopping exercising their right of first refusal on timeshare resales last fall. Because of this, the resale value of of Marriott timeshares has dropped precipitously. In some cases, the drop has been as much as 75% percent. Marriott is also in the timeshare resale business (40% commission). In the past, they would exercise their first refusal right when a sale was less than 60% of the their official price. This created a floor for resales that was 60% of what Marriott was charging. This floor is now gone and the timeshare owners in the 'basement'. For owners of 'good' weeks, this change has decreased the values of those weeks by at least $10K per week

So as a Platinum MR member and an owner of Marriott timeshares, where does that leave me? These changes have been to my detriment and Marriott is no longer my preferred hotel chain. I'm about 30 nights from Lifetime Gold and will stop there for regular paid stays. The main benefit for me then will be the EEO B1G1 coupons, but other than stays using those, my stays will go elsewhere. In about five years, I'll reach Lifetime Platinum. Those last two hundred nights will come from the credit card, stays at my timeshares and using B1G1 coupons. None of these will generate much income for Marriott which is fine with me.

Is the flat offer always made? It could be that the lower rental rates mean that Marriott's offer isn't all that bad. The only place I've seen a $500/nt. rental recently was for one of those 1-bedroom residences in London. I suppose a peak week 2-bedroom in Maui might do the trick as well... But what about the garden-variety Orlando unit? You can rent those 2-bedrooms for $150-200/nt., tops. We used to do that three or four times a year when we were visiting family there often.

Soon the OP might notice that the No Blackout Dates policy is a joke!!!

This would not work for 2 reasons.

1. People love playing nickle slots. Psychology! I would rather have a full bucket of nickels than a bucket with 12 $2 coins in it. Yet they are both worth about $24. Thats what so fun about Marriott, huge numbers of points.

2. Ma and Pa kettle's cousin, the experienced traveler who doesn't know what MR is, but signed up years ago, always stays at Marriott's, and now, after many years, has millions of points. Suddenly he comes across Flyer Talk and realizes he can spend the next 2 years in a category 7, because people are earning less points now. Marriott does not want that to happen, but if they can increase the points required, and even increase the number given out, people will be more satisfied with loads of points, and people who have been hoarding them, can't make them go as far.