that and the fact that class actions help no one (not the party being sued, nor the victims) but the lawyers

assuming there was one and we won, what would be get a cert for $10 that could only be used on rack rates

Oh surely they would give something more along the lines of Premium Pounds with and expiry date of 2 weeks. :D

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but no one has mentioned the biggest reversal I've ever seen: US Air late last year. They took away ALL bonuses for FFers, and then reinstated them --- retroactively.

I agree with you that b*tching in the forums will never be the sole cause of making a company reverse a business decision. But it's definitely a factor. Any business owner will testify that a ton of negative reviews on the Internet should be avoided if at all possible.

True, Marriott did their best to try to predict our reaction and take it into account, but that doesn't mean that they predicted accurately. The level of our vehemence may very well have taken them by surprise.

But the biggest factor by far is a change in bookings. If Marriott finds that there are vastly reduced bookings by elite members (and in general), they'll re-look at things like US Air did. This doesn't minimize, though, the factor of negative press.

Many, many people turn to this board when deciding which hotel chain to use, or which airline. For months, US Air boards were filled with hate and dissatisfaction. How many potential customers did it drive away? And for a few months the Marriott board has been similar. Surely it has had an effect on Marriott's business. Is the effect along the lines of what Marriott predicted when making their business decision? Well, they'll find out during the first half of this year.

US Air badly miscalculated, despite all their "brain"power, consultants, focus groups, research, PR firms, etc. It's highly possible that Marriott miscalculated, too.

Best comments so far. In the end - if you don't like the changes, then go somewhere else. I appreciate that some people cannot do this, but most people can. I personally believe there is a lot of 'greener on the other side' beliefs here, but every hotel chain and corresponding loyalty programme has it's advantages and disadvantages.

I personally, whilst not loving the changes, know that when I stay in Marriott hotels I get treated well. This hasn't always been the case with other hotel chains. All loyalty programmes get 'refreshed' every so often. No one ever likes the changes as they almost always reduce benefits somehow. Marriott will of calculated (either correctly or incorrectly) the advantages and disadvantages of changing it. I'm sure that cost was an issue (always will be) and I'm sure they expected some people to stop staying at Marriott. Only time will tell if they calculated correctly or not.

As for them calling the changes an enhancement - we live in a world of spin and marketing these days. Has anyone ever sued a politician - I don't think so (would be good if someone did though ^).

You're right about that, but the people in charge of Delta SkyMiles do monitor this board carefully. People who fly Delta know that and use the board specifically because it works better than notifying Delta directly. Marriott does not appear to pay as much attention to this board. Yes, the Concierges (surely that word is pluarlized some other way) do pay attention to the board, and that attention is appreciated, but it's not the same upper management notice given by the Delta execs.

Bottom line: over the past year, there have been a few policies that were overturned or changed in direct response to this Web site. Not so with Marriott, nor can we expect that.

Also, MI is much slower in doing things overall than Delta. Delta will change a policy two days after it's announced. Marriott just isn't that nimble.

Agreed here. I'm holding one MI reservation right now and the rest are Hilton. At this point last year, my Marriott reservations were solid and stretching into March. I doubt I'm alone. Marriott, though, is probably looking at that and figuring the economy is slowing travel, not that they are driving away their best customers. Switching to another chain is much, much easier than fighting with Marriott.

I used to drive an Oldsmobile. When it was time to get a new car, I bought an Infiniti. I didn't call GM and demand they change their offerings to please me. I test drove several cars and decided the Infiniti was best for me at that time. It wasn't just me that did that, and we can see what happened to GM, whereas Nissan is still in pretty good shape.

For Marriott's sake, hopefully they soon realize they're becoming like GM and, unless they change, they will suffer the same result.

Au contraire, we can count on the fact that they DO. Marriott is not ignorant of the power of the Internet. Far from it. So they surely monitor the most popular sites like FT, TripAdvisor, etc., to keep their finger on the pulse of their market. If there is a Marriott-related board site that is senior to FT for sheer number of posters, lurkers and frequent travelers, I am not aware of it. The Marriott execs know this very well, no question about it.

It's like the Hollywood stars who claim that they never read the magazines and Internet sites. Bull. Virtually all of them do. Who could resist? And how could Marriott resist looking at what people are posting on the top frequent traveler forum on the Internet? They look.

They would be FOOLISH to give credit to FT for being the reason they backed down. That would just encourage FTers to spew even more venom to get what they want (and I mean that affectionately of course). Good lord, can you imagine if the travel industry let it be publicly known that they bend to the will of FT? It would be a bloodbath. Never in a million years. There's absolutely no benefit for a company to admit such a thing, and I'm honestly surprised that a couple of companies have kinda done so.

Is it possible that we are overreacting just a wee bit?

I did my math based on my preferred award: I'm getting hit with a net 10% devaluation. In exchange for that, I might be getting better access to awards - I won't know this answer for several months when I attempt to redeem my next Travel Package.

So I'm cautiously optimistic that what Marriott has in essence done is create a "new" award that is a little more expensive than my "old" award, but also a little better in that, in theory, I have access to more rooms.

Of course, we all know individual properties can game this system. They do it in SPG all the time. But I think in many cases, the new system might actually give me a legitimate....wait for it....enhancement. :D



Yes, no question about it, I'm disappointed in the way elites are treated at properties Marriott deems "resorts". I'm disappointed in how elites are treated on weekends. It seems that Marriott has made a business decision to attempt to drive us away from the hotels in those cases. I don't know why they do that, but I don't have a hotel management degree.


But it's just part of the overall product choice decision. I'm doing a weekend in Chicago soon: $109/nt. for the main Marriott downtown vs. $160/nt. at the any of the big Hiltons. The Hiltons will treat me better (I'm Gold), but will they treat me approx. $60 per room per day better? I doubt it - I'm still with Marriott for those stays.

Three redemptions from last year vs. this year:

• 3 nights cat 6 went from 78k to 90k (13% devaluation)
• 4 nights cat 7 went from 110k to 140k (21% devaluation)
• 3 nights Prague Marriott with 4 nights CE FS Paris went from 150k to 250k (40% devaluation)

My points were earned under the old system. My new points will be earned under the new system, which gives me an additional 20% points per night and charges more. So Marriott did the conversion for points going forward for PM.

My point is the same gesture would have been nice had it been done for existing points. If there is a 20% increase in value of points rewarded, then maybe a 10% bump-up to soften the conversion of old points into new rewards redemptions would have been nice.

Am I angry? No. Do I think MR is the best value right now? No. I think right now Hilton wins, so I've shifted my business there. It's not an overreaction, it's a detatched evaluation of which is the better bargain for me right now.

Suppose there are two supermarkets next to each other, and I like both. Supermarket A comes out 10% lower on the basket of groceries I buy each week, so I'll go to Supermarket A. If Supermaket A increases prices 20% and Supermaket B leaves prices constant, I'll switch to Supermarket B, because price is what guides me there.

For hotels, for me, Marriott and Hilton are pretty indistinguishable. What drove me was the rewards program. Hilton looks better to me right now, so I'll switch. Why wouldn't I?

Yes they are much slower to act, because they have no reason to panic as most hotel chains are profitable unlike the airlines. WADR, I think the airlines were in panic reactionary mode due to high oil prices when most recent changes were implemented; whereas the hotel chains' changes, Marriott and others, are planned well in advance and are not reactionary in nature. After all it took over 2 years for Marriott to implement similar changes that Starwood, Hilton, and Hyatt implemented in 2006.

+1.

At this point last year, I had ~14 nights in MI properties. This year, I have decided to "try" spg. Guess what? I found out SPG is what is working for ME, at THIS POINT!

So, MI has 2 nights, spg has 11 so far this year, with 2 more this week! Also, I have rc'd the spg amex, and already spent ~$5K in the past 2 weeks. MI will see less and less from me.

I for one do not have the time to b!tch and moan to MR. I have decided to move my stays to what works for me! (and more importantly, my family as the ONLY thing they care about is vacation stays!!! :D )

The inflationary adjustment you mention is a good argument; however, it ignores one key point. If you had prepaid that $2K room in 2001 and Marriott has kept your money during this period (2001 -2008), then the room should be yours at that "prepaid" rate -- even if Marriott now charges $3K for the room. Why? Because Marriott has had your money during this time and has been using it, interest free. When you amass points for prospective room redemption, it works the same way. Marriott recognizes the points as a liability on their balance sheet, so they do ascribe a monetary value to them, but the whole game for Marriott is to remove the liability without giving out the product. If they do that, they even recognize income on their P&L (debit the liability, credit the income). Beautiful business model!

Assume that Marriott gave out rebates instead of points, but rather than hand out the cash, it kept it in the bank. This rebate fund would total billions of dollars over the years and Marriott would earn interest on these funds. This interest belongs to the owner of the fund. However, Marriott uses points, does not pay "interest" on the stored value (nor does it use this interest offset their room annual inflationary cost increases). Instead, Marriott uses points and deflates their redemptive value. Which is why, as soon as we burn off my wife's MR points, she is taking her $20K in annual spending to SPG. When someone is pissing on my head and tells me it's raining, that's hard to stomach.

As far as comments about no one suing them, so it must not be actionable behavior, I for one would love to, but have no time or energy.

Great point.

Like you, I have no interest in suing Marriott, nor the time, but Marriott should make the gesture to at least partially correct the value loss on our MR bank accounts.

I agree with complaining.

But has been pointed out, RIGHTS implies some legal entitlement which we don't have.

I am not sure what the OP is going to do with this data and would not give it to him/her for their "personal" campaign! If the OP wants to give details on his/her campaign maybe but right now????

I'm with those who protest.

Just think about this extreme case, what if Marriott unilaterally announces that the reward program will be gone along with the points in everyone's account. Is this still legal to do so? It was mentioned that MR has the right to make change to its program.

Please educate me.

However I have no interest in involving in the argument with MR. I would simply move my business elsewhere.

Actually, we (Plats) are only getting a 11% bump in earnings - assuming we're talking a non-extended-stay brand using the MR Visa.

I nearly always cash out at the Category 6 level - obviously later Category Creep could affect any of these calculations. But aside from that, my 250k award is now 300k - a 20% increase.

I used to need to spend a little under $14k at Marriott to reach this award. Now I need to spend $15k. I need to spend about 8% more money now to get my desired award.

I felt like Marriott gave us fair warning if we wanted to burn "old" points. I had a little over 800k in my account. I decided to redeem two Cat 6 weeks and keep 300k in the account. *Those* points were devalued more, but it's worth it to me because the timing of the next transfer of FF credit is more important to me than the hotel stay itself.

Anyway, to me it all comes back to whether *my* desired room happens to be available when I want it. If it is, then I will be happy with my 300k spend sometime in late '09 for a holiday in 2010. If it's not (at a hotel that does have regular rooms available), then I will be rather unhappy. It's totally anecdotal, but that's really how all of us will determine our satisfaction with the new rules.