Using discount codes without the documentation...
 

A few weeks ago, I read a thread on here with someone asking if they've ever used one of the promotion/discount/corporate codes available and what happened if you were asked for verification when checking in.

Well.

On 12/26, I was checking into the Marriott Marquis NYC. The guy next to me at reception was apparently trying to check in, having used an employee rate code. When asked to show documentation, he said he "forgot" his card.

The desk employee told him that they would need verification faxed over from the hotel he worked at. He asked if a copy of his information could be faxed from home. No dice. It had to come from the hotel to verify his employment status. If not, they would adjust his rate.

He eventually told the desk to forget about it and to adjust the rate. It went up substantially.

Talk about a sticky situation. I do not condone the use of codes that you are not entitled to use... it could get VERRRRRY expensive.

Just a word to the wise... and a witness account of what happens when you try to use codes that require documentation.

I've seen it too....
 

I've seen it a number of times. Mostly with the gov't code. There have been multiple times when the representatives have asked for gov't ID (they were obviously using a state/fed rate) and the customers didn't have squat. It is so funny to watch a customer get irrate about asking for gov't ID (like it is some sort of HIPAA violation or they don't have to prove who they say they are) start to squirm because they are obviously not entitled to it. Cracks me up.

I may have tried this 20 years ago...but when you get to be a certain age/maturity level, you don't even consider putting yourself through something so ridiculous as this....it's like trying to sneak into a bar before you are 21 and getting carded.

No thanks....I'd rather fork over the best price I can get on my own and not have to deal with something so juvenile and sneaky--and for what? To save a few bucks? If you can't afford to travel paying the amount that is offered to you, with whatever discount you deserve (AAA/AARP/etc.), then maybe you can't afford to stay at that location or chain.

I often see a code that is IBM. The discounts are great (I can at least try just to see what the amount is).....but I would never even for a second use it because I don't work for IBM or any thing that would even appear as such.

Dawn

About 10 years ago, 9 co-workers and I were asked for Gov't ID at the Sea-Tac Airport Marriott. We were working as contractors for the FEMA (feds) and the travel agent who booked the hotel did not check on the rate requirements. All we had was a letter from FEMA saying we were authorized to receive the government rate, and we were told that wouldn't suffice. I was not Platinum at the time, but one of my co-workers was. He tried to use his status to get us the rate, but it did not work. We were booked there for the week (Sun - Fri 10 X 5 = 50 revenue nights) and the MOD said the best rate he could offer was the corporate rate, which was almost double the gov't rate. Needless to say, we had to stay elsewhere. We were surprized that the MOD was willing to let that kind of room revenue plus the potential F&B revenue walk out. The next day the GM called my co-worker who was Platinum and tried to get us back, but we were at the Embassy Suites and didn't want to change hotels.

Now they are even more dilligent about the government rate and corporate rates. So if you are not entitled to use the rate, don't and you won't have any surprizes.

RIP...

I'm sorry I was not there to witness the discomfort. It was well deserved.

People using fraudulent discount rate codes drive up the rates that the honest people have to pay... or drive the hotel to trim the benefits that we cry about when we miss them.

I anticipate that I'll get a lot of self-serving, situational ethics rationalizations posted in response to this blunt assertion... but dishonesty is dishonesty... a single individual cheating a multinational corporation is still... cheating.

And FT should not, as it has in the past, facilitate this practice by condoning threads soliciting illicit rate codes, or asking for advice on how to successfully use such codes.

A MOD recently closed a thread where the OP was seeking assistance in defrauding a hotel. Unfortunately, since the thread was closed, I could not post to it to thank the MOD publicly... but I will do so now... KUDOS!

Fraudulent misrepresentation - Instance of false statement where (1) the party making the statement is aware that it is false or disregards the possibility of it being false, (2) the party making the statement does so to induce another party to enter into a contract, and (3) the other party enters the contract as a result of the statement and consequently suffers a loss.

There have been a few threads in this forum about the ethics of using a discount code to which you are not entitled.

From other posts here, it appears that the NY Marriott Marquis appears to be more draconian than most about enforcing the use of those codes.

As a consultant, I frequently travel and stay in Marriott properties using my client's rate. I have been challenged only on a few occasions, but a simple explanation of my business and some documentation from the client has been sufficient.

Strangely enough, the AAA rate gets challenged the most even though it is only a token discount in most cases.

One traveler's "draconian" is another traveler's "vigilant"! :D

Absolutely--
 

...so long as you are entitled to it.

If you don't belong to AAA, for example, why in the world would those benefits be extended to you. (Not you, personally.)

Rules are for everyone else.....

Dawn

Well I may be in the minority, but I generally use corporate discount codes at hotels around the world for companies I do not work to get a lower discount. I have noticed that most times the corporate discount shows up as a standard corporate rate, and the desk agents have no clue (nor do they care) what company the discount is for.

While I think anyone stupid enough to try and use a marriott employee discount rate at a marriott hotel when they are not employed by marriott should have their rate increased. On the other hand, who cares if someone who works for IBM used a Citibank discount to lower their rate.

it would be interesting to hear from someone working from behind the desk if this is indeed what they see; the reason I've asked is occasionally I've been asked the specific name of the place that I work

I've used corp rates quite a few times over the year, but I can back them up if I get questioned. The most I've ever been asked is "Are you here on business?", which of course, "I am." :D

I would never touch a Marriott employee rate. Too risky. Unless, of course, a Marriott manager offers to type up a letter that will back up the employee rate (incidentally I've been offered that!)

HTSC

Sounds like this person was trying to get a hotel employee rate. That's just plain stupid if you're not entitled to it.

However, as a Plat, if I get one ounce of grief from anybody regarding the corporate rates I've booked, I'm off to another hotel. They're free to ask and accept my business card and the name of the person that I'm working for or meeting wtih at my host company. If that's not good enough for them, I'm sure there's a Hilton down the street that would love my 75 nights a year.

I'm sure your average Elite is not out poking rates that they're not entitled to, so I think making a federal case about it with an Elite would be ridiculous with the possible exception of Gov't rates.

I've stayed many times in a SHS in downtown PIT that has a sign on the wall that says "anyone using corporate rates will be asked to show ID making them eligible for that rate." I've never been asked once.

Wow...Im at a loss for words here

Depends on the brand you're talking about

Full Service hotels sell "Corporate" as their benchmark rate - it's quite rare to sell their "rack" rate

Select Service & Extended Stay hotels have their rack & corporate rates set the same

Note a "Corporate" rate is not the same things as a "Special Corporate" rate which would be assigned to a specific company such as IBM or Citibank-special corporate rates do need ID at check-in

thanks Socrates; I was hoping for your input here :D

thanks also for the explanation as to how it works at FS vs SS/ES properties; that was interesting as i never knew that

I see that generic corp rate often which seemed to be a catch all that anyone can use > would that be correct (as opposed to Sp Corp)

so when you see a Special Corp rate pop up on your screen; do you see and lets use IBM since that is the example above.. do you see SP CORP = IBM or do you just see SP CORP period.

thanks

If you use a rate that you are not eligible for its screws the ppl who are entitled to use that rate, if you take the last room available at that rate.

Also, it has been explained that too many people using a corporate rate actually hurts the company. For example, a given hotel manager might decide that to meet his nightly occupancy levels he needs to sell 5 more rooms on average per night. He might be willing to extend a discount to a company that needs 5 rooms per night. HOwever, he won't extend that special if the company needs 9 rooms per night on average because those extra 4 rooms would be sold at a higher rate.

Hi clarkef, I might be dense this late at night (traveling in Europe) but I don't quite grasp this.

Let's say Marriott ABC needs to sell 5 more rooms a night to meet occupancy rates.

Do they actually look at corporate occupancy rate history and say "we will extend this to IBM, because they usually book 5 rooms, but not Accenture, because they normally book 9 rooms" based on previous bookings?

I probably am dense but do not totally understand what the example is that is provided.

You got it right. When IBM and Accenture come knocking to negotiate the room rates. IBM is in the better negotiating position. By extending the rate to IBM, Marriott ABC gains some revenue from rooms that it didn't expect to sell. However, if it extended the rate to Accenture instead of IBM, it gets the cheap revenue from those five rooms, but it also has to extend the cheap rate for another 4 rooms that it anticipated that it would have been able to sell at a higher rate.

Some math (very simple case)...

Suppose most rooms sell at $200/nt and the hotel had 5 empty rooms on average. It's happy to sell those rooms to IBM at $100 to get an extra $500.

Thus the nine rooms in question made (4*200) + (5*100) = $1300

However, if Accenture gets all 9 rooms for $100, then the hotel only made $900.00 for the nine rooms in question. Clearly, even though IBM needs fewer rooms, it represents the more profitable deal for the hotel. For Accenture to compete, the hotel would actually give Accenture a rate of $144.

Now, if 4 additional people misuse the IBM rate bringing the total number of IBM rooms up to 9 per night, the hotel had expected to make $1300, is only making $900. Thus when its time to renegotiate, the hotel will quite possibly extend IBM the Accenture rate of $144.

So surprising enough, misuse of a rate is harms both the hotel and the rate holder.

Anyone can use "Corporate" rate without ID, Special Corporate rates require ID- regardless of brand (there are 2 different systems, 1 for es/ss and 1 for fs) the front desk does see the rate your on, in this case IBM and they would know to ask for an IBM ID

Exactly - people are often confused by fixed inventory economics

Just an example of....
 

This replier suffers from the "World According to Garp" syndrome. I tend to suffer from it myself, now and again.

Whatever is okay in his/her book, is okay for the rest of the world to do. But, whatever he/she thinks is NOT acceptable, it is NOT acceptable for anyone else either. Screwy standards based on justification of what one feels is okay to do him/herself and no other consideration used. Period.

Or, also know as, the "World According to Garp" syndrome.

Ha!

Dawn

Here we go again. :cool:

The easy way to know, if you are booking online, is whether you select any one of the "special rate" radio buttons (AAA, Senior, Govt, Corporate / promotional code). If you do, you are requesting rates that you may need to provide proof of eligibility. If you go another step further and enter a 3 digit code into the "Corporate / promotional code" box, you are even more likely to be challenged, as you are now in clarkef's example. (assuming it's either a "random" set of digits trolling for cheap rates or a specific company's 3 digit code... there are plenty of "public" codes one can try, see the Sticky)

Personally, I don't feel comfortable using a corp code that I have no right to use. I know the front desk rarely asks, but I'd hate to be that guy with no explanation when they do ask.

There are a lot of gray areas in all of our travels. The airlines and hotels have set up complicated systems and we learn to play the gray areas to our own advantage. But outright misrepresenting myself to get a better rate seems to cross the line. JMHO.

when you book a rate, pretty much every rate whether its a generic corp, aaa, govt or *insert company code here* you get to a point where rate rules is a pop up window

these will give the cx policy, the extras like b/f etc.. and it also says this rate requires Id or it will not state anything.. based on this patter it can be argued that not stating any ID requirement allows for anyone to use it where as requires ID would indicate you must have an ID to use the rate

example

corporate (generic rate mentioned by socrates above) shows the following for a hotel I just tried for a random weekday date in a large city

Holding Your Reservation
We will need a credit card number to reserve your room.
Canceling Your Reservation
You may cancel your reservation for no charge until 4:00 PM hotel time on January 29, 2009.
Please note that we will assess a fee of 238.40 USD if you must cancel after this deadline.
If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.

This fee equals 1 night of your room charge plus tax (for the first night of your reservation).

Modifying Your Reservation
Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change

now using AAA

in addition to the above this is an added line

When You Check-in
Please be prepared to show proof of eligibility for your rate (such as a membership card, corporate or government identification card, or proof of your age).

now using corp code *xxx*

same as AAA

now using corp code *xxy*

that ID line is missing and is no where to be found anywhere in the reservation process.. no where

going back to what I said.. this would indicate that corp rate xxy is something that could be used by anyone or else they would have put in the ID requirement either in the rate rules or at least in the box under the rate rules that says the corp name such as

xxy rate, includes airport transportation

vs this rate

xxx rate, Self Parking $xx, company ID required

Incorrect IME. I've been asked for my AAA card probably twice in my life when using AAA rates (I am a legit member.) I have NEVER, not once, ever, been asked for corporate ID for using a corporate rate for a local company, and I've used several corporate rates for company's that I've contracted for (with their blessing.) Seriously probably 10 or 12 different corporate rates in the last 2 years or so. Including at least one property (twice) with a sign hanging at the front desk that stated "All guest using corporate rates will be asked for ID to show their eligibility".

Yup. Forget London properties being made into a stickey, I'd like to see this entire topic made into one ;) :D

Cheers.

although that was not my post you are quoting; i'll take a stab at what he was trying to say

I think he is saying that corp rates in theory should increase your chances that you will be called on the rate (show ID) vs. generic rate codes like AAA where almost everyone has a AAA card. My two extremely devalued MR points are that the following order in most likely to get carded to least are

1. Marriott employee/friends etc
2. Govt (by far and a way)
3. Sr AARP etc if you don't look it
4. Cards like Entertainment
5. corp travel like airlines etc
6. generic corp codes
7. publicly listed which shouldn't have any carding since its not applicable

Proof for gov rate?
 

I am attending a meeting of a gov agency next month in DC, as an expert to help judge some research proposals. We've been told "make your own hotel reservations and they all offer the gov rate" (which is $209). The hotel says "proof of gov employment or gov travel orders required". Anyone have any idea what proof I need for "travel orders?" All my interaction so far is by email with program managers - would be pretty easy to fake if I were so inclined.

Related to a previous post, when requesting special corp rates (a specific company, my client, whom I was visiting) at the Marriott in downtown Philly I was politely asked for some evidence (it was a very good rate). Printout of some correpondence and the name of the person at the local company sufficed. I was not at all put out by being asked for such. (Client was going to reimburse me in any case, but they'd asked me to use their rate - which is also normal).

Marriott requires that you be an actual government employee, so it is unlikely you'd get the gavernment rate in the situation you describe. My husband has a CAC card (contractor) and orders from the Army (a PDF file with a seal which he prints out and carries with him) for every trip he makes. The orders state his departure date and city and his return date and city, as well as the fact that he is entitled to government rate and discounts on travel for the trip and the military bases he will have access to on the trip. Not good enough for Marriott, he is not eligible for the gevernment rate.

Thanks for the info! In my case next month, the hotel is a Hilton (I asked here because I saw the relevant topic and had some experience to relate, hope that doesn't make me too OT) and says gov employee or with travel orders and I'm sort of wondering whether "travel orders" means something official or other. They have a separate rate for gov contractor. I'll call the hotel and ask them.

thanks!

You should be fine at Hilton. Orders are an official document issued by your contracting officer.

You really think Marriott's going to press charges against someone for trying to use a discount code? I don't condone it, but really... can you imagine the PR ****storm that would cause? All they'll do is charge you the rack rate when they find out.

I've found before that my company's travel agent booked me under the corporate rate of another company. She apparently does this all the time. All I can say is -- when she has done it, the choice was either that, or stay at another hotel.