Redemption Philosophy
 

I see threads about all sorts of topics here, but I have never seen one that specifically addresses how we use points.

For instance, do you have a specific target for value per point redeemed? If so, do you typically use 5 for the price of 4, 7 night (or 5, if you're eligible) travel package redemptions, point savers and so forth?

Now what makes sense for one of us may not make sense for another for any number of reasons. I'm thus not looking for people to prove that what they do is "better" than what someone else does; I just want to hear what you do and hopefully learn something along the way.

I've done (or have booked) three redemptions over the past year:

NYC Edition on a point saver last year - I originally planned to do a travel package, but the point saver looked better to me. It worked out to better than 2 cpp plus an upgraded room.

Ren Phuket next month- done as a 7 night tp with 132K UA miles. This one will be at least 1.5 cpp

Courtyard Ogden in January - for a whopping 7,500 points I'll save $140.

Back to my original question, I don't redeem for less than 1.5 cpp. I've had a couple stays where I thought about redeeming, but the category seemed a little high relative to the cash price.

Anyway, I hope this topic can be helpful for many of us. This site has been incredibly valuable to me over the past several years and I'd like to see that be the case for everyone.

I hardly ever redeem points for hotel nights. I'd much rather earn MORE nights and points credit. In years gone by, I redeemed millions of points for free cruises. I also got lots of items from the merchandise catalog that weren't necessarily the best value, but let me get lots of electronics I probably wouldn't have bought with cash. I have redeemed a few travel package rewards because I wanted frequent flier miles and it just made more sense to get the free week at a Marriott as well, but I struggle to find a time I spend an entire week at a single property, especially on vacation. In any event, I have never calculated cpp on any points I've cashed in.

Great response and this exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in. I have no idea whether I'll ever redeem MR points the way you have, but I wouldn't have thought of it before I saw your message.

Advanced search on 'worth, points' restricted to the last year finds 80 - yes, 80 - threads in this forum. The topic of point value gets discussed all the time.

I will save them up if I have a specific redemption I am looking for in the next year or so. Otherwise I earn and burn, unless the redemption value is really bad. The chances of these points going up in value seems pretty remote while the chance of a devaluation seems pretty good, so I see no reason to keep them long term. I don't travel enough to earn any real elite status, so the nights and stays don't mean much to me.

I have a very simple redemption philosophy. I pay for business travel and I redeem for personal travel. I don't pay any attention to the redemption rate.

Very true, much reading is available. My personal thoughts and takeaways:

1. Your favorite & desired hotels will increase in category almost every year therefore devalue 15-20-25% yearly so burn when you can.
2. Always try and redeem 4 for 5 nights.
3. If you have the Visa card, burn the 1-5 cert at the first opportunity regardless as the opportunity may not return given the limited desirable 1-5 hotels in cities, the northeast and US
4. If you make cpp calculations, don't forget to add 15-20% for the ridiculous taxes. Conversely, cap your valuation numerator at what you would personally pay in cash for the same room, just because they charge $1000 the night before the Superbowl for a $150 room, wildly inflating the cpp, doesn't make it a great calculation in my eyes.

I agree with the first part but not the last. I always look at redemption rates across programs and balance hotel quality with redemption rates. I've never failed to find a good property at a rate that was acceptable (at least.5 Hilton, 1 MR, 2 SPG). I try to work out using 5th night free as much as possible, but I don't let redemptions drive my vacation planning - where we go, what we do, etc., comes first, then hotel planning follows from that.

I'd never redeem points for merchandise, car rentals, or most of the other "enhanced options" programs always try to convince you to try.

Yes and no on the cpp calculations for a room for the Superbowl (or other mega-event with inflated pricing). On one hand I agree saying you got 6 to 7 cpp on the redemption is unrealistic. On the other hand if it enabled you to get a room where either you couldn't afford or want to pay the cash rate, it is still an excellent redemption. Some folks would argue it is one of the best redemption's.

For my other redemption patterns:

1) Annual Visa night, we almost always have transit overnights driving to or from our summer vacation. Frequently these hotels off an interstate are low category but high nightly rate since they know they have the vacation travelers locked in. I typically use them on $160+ Fairfield rooms. Note, I also do IHG and they have the same inflated rate issue in these areas (as does Hilton though I don't do that program). So typically a 2 for 1 return for the $85 annual credit card fee.

2) There is a property near where my father and sister live on LI that for whatever reason is only a Cat. 3 but routinely has nightly rates of $200+. I average 6 to 10 nights a year spread over 2 to 3 trips at this property and always pay with points. Still an excellent return on cpp versus cash.

3) In general I try to get >= 1 cpp but at times will go lower if I am strapped for cash and/or exceptionally flush with points.

4) Haven't done it in a few years, but travel packages were always the best cpp. I do find 7 nights in one place a bit long, but hey how much can you complain about a week on the beach in Hawaii.

In general, earn and burn on a regular basis regardless of the cpp value. Maximize cpp when you can within that overall strategy. Hoarding just leads to devaluation of your accumulated points. To each their own... Do what makes the most sense for you (and your family).


--Jon

That's my philosophy as well. I also think earn low, redeem high. I have a tendency to save points for very expensive hotels. If a hotel is cheap I'd probably pay for it vs. using points, but there have been times when even w/ cheap hotels I used points because $$ were tight (self-employed) & free was still better than cheap. It's a to each their own. I've never once done a CPM calculation re: hotel points or airline miles.

And yes this topic crops up all the time.

Cheers.

<redacted>

I redeem close to 100% of my Marriott points for Travel Packages. Usually with some sort of airline mileage bonus.

I don't fret *too* much about the value-per-point of the 7-night hotel certificate. I always redeem at a city (non-resort) Marriott/Renaissance or (if I'm really lucky) an MVCI unit, usually somewhat high category, usually in a location I actually want to spend a week in but would find good lodging expensive.

My 2018 Travel Packages will be Rome (Boscolo Exedra) and Hawaii (the newer MVCI north of Kona). Those both happen to be $450-500/nt. properties, but I probably wouldn't have booked either with my own cash so the value I assign to them is somewhat subjective.

2019 will probably be Hong Kong and one more TBD. Crossing my fingers that Travel Packages stay strong through the program merger and are bookable into 2020 and beyond.

When I need one or two night award, I look to my smallish stash of Hyatt, IHG, or Carlson points. When I need a resort hotel, I look to my Hilton stash.

You can ignore these numbers when you're trying to define the "value" of a point. Some people point out that it's possible, with planning, to find a $25K airfare JFK-NRT in F, thus miles are worth $25K/redemption cost. No, of course their not.

But if you have tickets to the Super Bowl, and need somewhere to stay, and rooms are $1000, and you can redeem at a property for 30K/night, you certainly won't "ignore" the opportunity because it's "inflated". I didn't pay going rate for SB XL.

Definitely. In retrospect, Super Bowl was a bad example, worthy of a "splurge" certainly. Maybe a $500 SF JW only because its new years eve in a big city is better.

Agree with 1.5 cpp minimum.

Someone above mentioned devaluation, which, while always a consideration, does not happen to Cat 9 properties, because, well, there's no Cat 10. The best consistent value I find are in those Cat 9 properties that in peak season run $6-7-800 a night sometimes. Five nights at a property like that for 180k points is valuable. The reverse is true as another person said above -- some crazy Cat 1 deals out there if you're in the right place at the right time.

One other thing not mentioned specifically -- if you fly Southwest and transfer 110k+ points to their program, you'll instantly get their companion pass, allowing for buy-one-get-one travel for up to two years (if you time it properly). That's probably more valuable than any hotel redemption if you live near a Southwest hub. I myself am a Delta loyalist, so I don't take advantage of this.

Unfortunately this benefit is no longer available for tranfers from partner Hotel Loyalty programs.

As per Southwest T&C:

*Companion Pass qualifying points are earned from revenue flights booked through Southwest®, points issued on Southwest Rapid Rewards® Credit Cards, and base points earned from Rapid Rewards Partners in a calendar year. Purchased points, points transferred between Members, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions, and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonus points, flight bonus points, and Partner bonus points (excluding bonus points earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not qualify as Companion Pass qualifying points.

On using points, I see lots of threads where someone asks what's the nicest/more luxurious/best/etc Marriott they can use points on. Then they try to make a reservation around that. I'm the opposite. I decide where I want to go first and then look at what the hotel options for points are. And depending on the length of the stay, cost of the hotels (both in cash and points), whether cash is tight or not at that time, etc., I'll decide on whether I use points or pay cash.

I do like the TP awards and usually tend to get one of them every year (or at least every other year). I personally have no problems enjoying a 7 night stay at a beach or similar location. I used a TP award last year for a 2-bedroom MVCI property on Aruba. Loved every night there. I'm using another TP award next month at the JW Marriott Grand Lakes in Orlando. Between Universal, Disney, SeaWorld and a number of other things to see and do, I doubt I'd get bored if I were there 2 weeks. :)

Oh, and I also rarely, if ever, try to calculate cpp or anything along that lines.

There is nothing that says they won't create one. Especially when the two programs merge.

My armchair guess as to what's going to happen when they merge the two programs is this.

- Today, there are 12 Marriott categories and 8 Starwood categories. (Two of the Ritz categories are dupes and the 8th Starwood category is kind of a loose range.)
- If you merged them together right now and tried to keep all hotel redemption rates flat, you'd need 14 categories, with the 14th being the loose Starwood range.
- Since 14 is a bit daunting for guests - sort of a hard thing to market - my guess is that we'll get 10-ish categories. It won't matter whether the hotel was a heritage Marriott, Ritz, or Starwood brand. Maybe those ultra-pricey Starwoods will get to keep their loose range...or maybe Cat 10 will be so damn high that it won't matter.
- They'll hollow out levels at the bottom: every hotel will "creep" upward.

So yeah, Category 9 *could* devalue. But you probably have all of 2018 to book at current levels (meaning all of 2019 to complete your stay).

Most rooms in the system will cost more to book in 2020 than they do now. My hunch is that the Marriott "currency" will be the one that survives, but the categories will all creep on us a bit.

At least 10 categories, if not a full 15. Or they scrap the category system entirely in favor of the Hilton model where its an ever changing point redemption value based upon whims. Now that there is far less significant competition. Yes, I do believe the sky is falling...

Our only shred up hope is that I've seen comments (linked somewhere here, I think) during an interview with a Marriott exec where he acknowledged that Starwood fans are rabid about SPG. Not saying awareness will lead to action (or prevent undesirable action), but at least there's awareness. Since Honors is pretty much the exact opposite kind of program than SPG, Marriott has to know that would drive out a ton of high-yield guests. It would become very easy for Hyatt to step in and woo a lot of those guests over.

Of course it's possible that Marriott will simply say that hotels are so full either way that they don't need any of the Starwood-style features anymore. In which case yeah, the sky is falling...

I still try to stick with a floor of 1 CPP in terms of ACTUAL savings I will make. This is something that's a more complicated calculation since the Marriott properties in an area may be overpriced and a comparable property might be cheaper than the cash rate at the Marriott. Honestly it's gotten a lot more difficult since I take lots of short trips so travel packages or fifth night free doesn't factor in. Most of my recent redemptions have been at cat 2 Four Points and Sheratons in the USA on weekends where I am looking at spending 9000 Marriott points (3000 SPG) vs saving at least $90 (usually the hotels are around $110+tax, so I end up getting close to 1.3 CPP). Same way I use the Visa cert -- make sure to get more than the $85 fee I pay for the card.

Yeah, as I got to the "short trips" part of your post, I immediately thought...you're one who benefits on the MR-SPG transfers going the other direction. Starwood is good for one-nighters, especially if you can find a good C&P or a Category 2 in good condition.

I'm a little bit bummed that I'm burning one of my Visa certs next week on a $110/nt Fairfield Inn during our Thanksgiving roadtrip. It's about to expire, and I'm finding it harder and harder to find good Cat 5 uses for it... All the places I used to use it 3-4 years ago are Cat 7 by now. :mad:

Marriott is my backup program, but I have the Chase Visa and keep it due to the free night. It's quite worth it for me, as I do what Jon does. Road trips for me invariably require one night stays here and there where I find the hotels regularly charging $150/night. I also usually keep enough points in my account to redeem a one or two night stay somewhere if the cash rate is really high, but I don't usually find high value in Marriott redemptions which is why they're my back up. Hilton points are worth a lot less, but they're also far easier to obtain for casual travelers.

If this is true, the points blogs need to get on that ASAP. I'm still not positive that these T&C exclude what we're talking about. Strictly speaking, when you use 270,000 Marriott points to earn 110,000 Southwest miles (and the 7 nights), that's less of a transfer (or a conversion) than it is a redemption in and of itself. I haven't tried doing this, because I don't fly Southwest, but if this benefit went away, I think it would have made big news on TPG and OMAAT, among others, who frequently tout it as one of the best uses of MR points.

You might want to go check out the threads on this in the Southwest forum. Southwest specifically excluded Marriott points transfers with very little lead-time. There was a big enough outrage that Southwest backed off for 6 months I do believe to let folks get one last round of CPs via TPs and hotel points transfers. But that road has now been closed off and I doubt it will ever open back up again.

But if anyone is really interested in a CP, the Southwest CC bonuses still count and with two of them in a single year can pretty much still get you a CP.

A few years back there was no Cat 9....

Same here.

There was no notice and effective 1/1/17, a few days later WN backed off and gave everyone until 3/31/17. I got in just under the wire for the first and last time...

Yeah, that's exactly how it went down. I was on the fence about doing a CP this year and saw the threads on FT about the gravy train ending. When it opened up for a few weeks, I hit my last one and have CP through end of '18.

Over the past 15 years, I've done 3 TPs that counted towards AA Lifetime status and 3 that created WN CPs. Sadly both of those little "extras" are gone...

Thanks for the specifics. I couldn't remember the exact dates, but I was able to get a CP before the final end date. So like pinniped, I have it through the end of 2018. And I have LT Plat status on AA through ordering a number of AA miles TP awards. ^

Wow. Thank you all for setting me straight. I had no idea.

There's actually a very easy way to set the floor of the value of a point: gift card redemptions. Marriott gives $100 of gift card value for 30000 points -- any redemption of less value for hotel stays means you'd be better off just redeeming for gift cards and using the freed up cash to pay for your hotel.

The same works at SPG, where $100 of gift card value costs 10000 points. This also would have accurately predicted the 3:1 conversion rate that was eventually announced.

I wouldn't redeem Marriott points under about .9 cpp.

Beyond that, I look for either aspirational redemptions (e.g., suite at the Essex House for 85K) or a utilitarian stay where I don't feel like paying $200+ (e.g., transferred 30K points to SPG for an overnight at Sheraton Gateway LAX).

I guess that's a floor (1/3 cent per point) but what a horrible floor. Similarly, Southwest is 1 cent per point as you can buy Amazon gift cards at that rate.

Like many others here I also have a floor redemption value of about 1 cent per MR point. However, I have friends who are a bit cash strapped (daughter in college, husband retired) who use their MR points almost as soon as they reach a threshold for an award, so everyone values things differently.

I also have never redeemed a travel package because I fly a fair amount for work and prefer to either use FF miles from my airline accounts to pay for airline tickets, or just pay for the tickets with cash to earn EQDs.

Achieving Lifetime Plat has also altered my stay patterns a bit. I now mix in some HH properties in both work and shorter leisure stays so I suppose MR could view this a downside of awarding lifetime status. However, I also tend to focus my longer leisure and work stays on MR properties because the benefits are better, so awarding LT does have an up-side.

The SPG transfer option opens up a whole bunch of new possibilities. I just transferred 120K Marriott to SPG, and converted those to KE (40K SPG=50K KE) to fund an F award SFO-BKK (95K). The cpp here is off the charts (though somewhat unrealistic, as I wouldn't actually go out of pocket $7K for the one-way ticket).

I spend most of my points on Travel Packages and 5-night stays (pay 4, get 1 free) or longer. These are the best value. On rare occasion I redeem for 1 night at a time. I look for a minimum of 0.8cpp before taxes and fees... which works out to closer to 1cpp after these are added in. The fact that it's hard to find redemptions above this threshold is the main reason I book single-night awards stays so rarely.

As you can see, there are 1,000 posters and 1,001 opinions. ;)

My redemptions fall into one of two category: One, very expensive hotels that I would never pay for myself (e.g., Ritz Carltons). The other is multi-night travel packages which get me points and miles.

It's different for everyone, but one rule is universal: Don't hoard. Points don't earn interest. Rather, they devalue year after year. Sadly, you probably won't have a need for a million miles anytime soon that you haven't already planned for. Earn 'em, burn 'em and keep the minimum number that you need.

Mike

I agree on all counts. (Especially the one about 1,001 opinions. I like the range of ideas.)

The "redeem for really low or really high category properties" is the approach I follow.

My overall goal is a mix of four travel currencies:

1. Cash
2. MR/SPG points
3. UA miles
4. UR points

Mrs. 1120 and I are going to Greece next summer and I used SPG points for three nights at the King George. I looked long and hard for either a tp or 5/4 at Domes Noruz. I finally concluded that both the cash and points prices seemed a little inflated. Instead, we're staying in Chania in a small and gorgeous (that's right, non-Marriott) hotel that overlooks the harbor. Between actual flying and previous tp redemptions we had enough UA miles to fly J both ways.

I will burn MR points for another tp while the UA bonus is in effect. We'll use that for a week at Essex House next fall. I fly E+ domestically and don't care whether I fly into EWR, LGA or JFK. That way I stock up on points for TPAC or TATL J seats. We look at flights first when we book trips overseas since I don't want to pay cash or a zillion miles for J/F tickets.

It's a good gig and it certainly helps to pay attention. A friend of mine has a ton of MR points and he had never heard of any of this stuff until we did a little training session last month.