The Importance of Breakfast
 

Having seen this topic span a number of threads within the Marriott Rewards forum recently, I've been thinking about it a bit and wanted to find out where FT members stood.


1. Comparing Marriott Rewards vs. Hilton Honors Fora

While there are a similar number of threads in each forum including breakfast in the title (181 in MR vs. 186 in HH) and both fora have sticky threads tracking lounge access/availability (2 in MR that focus on which Executive Lounges are open or closed on weekends vs. 1 in HH that focuses on Lounge status at Hilton properties), HH has a singular thread started back in 2004 that tracks Gold/Diamond Breakfast Hilton family properties. The thread's wiki not only has a template for defining how to report breakfast availability, it requires the post to include type of breakfast (full, intermediate, continental) and defines these types. Also, the HH gold/diamond breakfast thread is specific to HH properties that don't provide breakfast as a common booking benefit (i.e. excludes ES, HI, H2S, etc. unless there's something unique for a gold/diamond).

That individual HH thread is one of the reasons I identified that HH elites have tended to be a bit more breakfast focused than MR elites - at least on FT. The debate of the quality, quantity, food types, service, availability, etc. of breakfast at a given HH or MR property will go on but I'll only comment that breakfast at a HH property is more of "the odds are good" you'll get breakfast as a HH elite but that "the goods are odd" (e.g. what this consists of tends to vary a lot).


2. Defining the MR Gold/Platinum Breakfast Benefit

Focusing specifically on Marriott Rewards and what you. as a MR elite, might receive across the MR brands because of your status seems to be of greater interest now. Part of this seems to stem from the influx of SPG elites who are trying to find out what they might get as the programs merge as well as how MR properties are interpreting the "Lounge/Club access/continental breakfast" clause of the Additional Platinum and Gold Membership Benefits for elite members as defined in the Marriott Rewards Terms and Conditions.

There's one property in the Hawaiian Islands that's been thoroughly thrashed on what it provides (or claims) as "continental breakfast". Others are still quite annoyed at the elimination of any breakfast benefit at Courtyard properties in the U.S. (as well as the free coffee but I won't go there :)). A newly started thread brings up the conversions of upper end Marriott properties in the State of Florida to "resorts" as another reduction to elites seeking a breakfast benefit.

I think here the issue that MR elites on FT have is the variations and escapes that are continuing to occur across the upper tier Marriott properties - whether this is the Florida and other properties moving to "resort" status to eliminate the need to provide a breakfast benefit or the 14 listed properties that are exempt from the free continental breakfast benefit or that corporate Marriott is not cracking down on individual properties and enforcing this benefit uniformly.

For myself, an exemplar is the breakfast I received at the Bethesda Suites Marriott this past week as a Platinum. This property is just yards away from the corporate Marriott HQ and the Front Desk clerk was very specific that the breakfast benefit is "continental" when I checked in and my server idenfied what "continental" was when I went down to the restaurant. Of course I could upgrade to a full buffet breakfast for $5 and could get pancakes, an omelette to order, etc. but that given their training, to a person at this property, was very clear that they knew what was defined as a benefit.


3. Business Stays vs. Family Stays

No matter our MR elite status has been earned (by virtue of our number of stays per year, credit card spend, meetings scheduled and held, all of the above - and some who have their lifetime status as well), a large part of the decision on where to stay when on travel is driven by the reason we're booking an upper end Marriott property - is the stay principally for business or are we taking the family to a destination. In either case, as a MR elite, we'd like to take advantage of the breakfast benefit. However, our decision making process on which property to pick will likely be affected based on whether we are travelling by ourselves, a team of folks or with our families.

If I'm travelling by myself, where I stay is usually a function of proximity to where I'm trying to be - whether for meetings at a customer, some special feature of a city or perhaps a specific hotel if a conference or meeting is being held there. Unless MR has a bonus for staying at different properties every night, I'll likely simply stay at one hotel that works best in terms of proximity to my meetings and/or minimizes in-city/regional travel. I'll usually prefer a full service or upper end Marriott property given the benefits I'll get as a Platinum (I hesitate to use Platinum Premier since no property seems to know what that is anyway) if I can afford it. Availability of a lounge will usually narrow down my property decision since I know what I'm likely to get. So, implicitly, I am selecting a MR property based on breakfast but given what's offered, it's really the lounge that's the driver as well as what's going to be available therein from 6 to 10 am.

If I'm travelling with a team or my family, being able to take advantage of the lounge and breakfast benefit become even more important - at least for me. I can guest folks into the lounge and, given the number of rooms I'll book for my family, that they'll also inherit my platinum status and benefits. However, I may book away from properties especially on weekends unless their lounges are open if I have my family in tow.

This being said, I sometimes forget about this decision making process. An example is my overnight stay at the SFO Marriott because my flight came in so late on Friday night that I was not able to connect to LAX to get home. I hadn't realized that a) the SFO Marriott now has a MClub and b) that Saturday morning the club would be overflowing with families. Whether the number of folks was because they had elite status or that they had reserved rooms that granted them MClub access, I had to identify myself and my room in order to get in. Given how full it was, I was about to simply turn around and leave and get something at one of SFO United Clubs. However, I decided to stay and try the food - with one of the reasons was in some ways related to FT and letting folks know what they might expect if they go to the SFO Marriott on the weekend.

So another part of angst that MR elites may be having over breakfast is the simple need to a) feed ourselves but b) feed others - especially our families - when we're on travel. Some of this is obvious in trying to save on not having to buy breakfast if it is included in our elite benefits but much of it may relate to simplifying our travel when going places with others.


4. Domestic/U.S. vs. International MR Properties

Another undercurrent in the breakfast discussion has been the comparison of the breakfast benefit as served up by MR properties in the United States versus MR properties elsewhere in the world. The quality of breakfast offered at international MR properties as well as the settings (lounge vs. restaurant) has been highlighted as a strong benefit for when MR elites go to different countries besides the U.S.

I would argue that it is important for upper end MR international properties to do so since their competition in the upper end traveller marketspace also provide a superior breakfast benefit and because their reputations rely upon it. Also, many of the upper end MR international properties are smaller and are differentiated based on the service and level of comfort they provide.

Would I like to see an improvement in not only breakfast but also lounges in the U.S.? Sure but what may be an ordinary Marriott in a suburban U.S. location would be a massive property in most other places in the world and the competition, unless in an urban center, is also not offering a superior service and may directly undercut on room rate price. I suspect if the demand were there, breakfast may improve but not likely.


So, given all of this, I wanted to find out if these are some of the reasons folks are being more focused on the breakfast benefit or if I've missed something since there's been a greater emphasis in this forum on its importance lately.

David

Breakfast has been discussed in multiple hotel forums in the 15 years I've been on FT. It's nothing new. To some breakfast is very important; to others (such as myself) not so much. I use exec lounges primarily in the evening.

Cheers.

To us, the breakfast benefit is worth around $10 (for two people) since that's what we would normally pay for breakfast on our own. Not really a big differentiator.

That is about what it is worth to me as I'm generally not a big fan or needer of the meal.

But go ahead and try spend that $5 per person when you are captive at a resort or large hotel (San Diego Marquis comes to mind) and/or pressed for time and see if that even covers a cup of coffee!

You missed an important section.

5. Ful-service properties vs mid-scale properties without free breakfast vs mis-scale properties with free breakfast.

If someone mostly stays in Hampton Inn or Embassy Suites or Homewood Suites at Hilton, and Fairfield Inn or SpringHill Suites or Residence Inn or Townplace Suites at Marriott, their breakfast is free without any need for status.

If someone stays at an FS Hilton or an FS Marriott, mid-level status or higher gets roughly the same (mid-level status is less likely to get lounge at Hilton, more likely to get lounge at Marriott, top-level status gets lounge in both programs).

On the other hand, if someone stays at Hilton Garden Inn at Hilton or Courtyard at Marriott, that's where the big difference occurs (free cooked-to-order breakfast a HGI, no free breakfast at all at Courtyard).

For many, it's not the cost, but the convenience. I can stay at a FS, run in to the CL, get a cup of coffee and a banana, have nicer bedding than at an FI and not waste the time it would take to stand in line at a CY's Bistro. The coffee can be taken at seven and breakfast had at eight. Heck, it's other people's money for many of us, so the cost doesn't matter. It's the convenience.

This is generally where I am on this. Being able to pop into the lounge and get something quick (and at times just take it back to my room - oh the horrors!) is more important than the actual cost.

However, the small costs do impact my brain. I was at a Towneplace Suites a couple of nights last week (not bad - two bedroom suite), and the $3.00+tax bottles of soda just psychologically killed me (and there wasn't a nearby shopping option). Even when it is not my own nickle, I dislike getting gouged.

The lounges have through the years saved my clients money. Of course, the amount is generally inconsequential given the size of the actual contracts, but the psychology is still there.

I should not have said the cost doesn't matter. My bonus depended in part on keeping within a budget. My bad.

You can care about breakfast or you can not care. But a top tier Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, etc. member knows that they will get breakfast chain-wide, with very few exceptions (Waldorf-Astoria comes to mind)

With MR, I have to visit the website, figure out which brand is going to offer me breakfast. Then I have to check whether the hotel has a lounge or not. Then I have to make sure that the hotel hasn't classified itself as a resort. And then I have to hope that "continental" is slightly better than stale bread and water.

Instead of needing a law degree to decipher the fine print, I'll just stay elsewhere most of the time... MR has a limited window to avoid losing SPG elites over things like this, so I hope they are spending their time wisely.

Some Hilton properties define free breakfast as only coffee and a piece of fruit and a pastry so I don't see Hilton as clear cut as Hyatt or Starwood. You still need to look in order to make sure it is at least a full continental for some of them.

I like breakfast, and I will pick hotels based on which ones offer a better one. I know which Marriott properties give the full buffet on weekend in lounge or restaurant and which ones do not.

I agree. The value of breakfast to me varies enormously with the specifics of the situation. When inexpensive alternatives such as convenience stores, bakeries, or street vendors are easy to reach from the hotel given my constraints of schedule and available transportation, breakfast is worth about $5 -- because that's what I'd spend at one of these alternatives. But when such cheap alternatives are not present, or not reachable given the realities of schedule and transportation, the only alternative may well be the hotel restaurant -- which can run from $10 to $40 per person for a modest meal depending on the local economy.

There are a lot of differences (although I understand your point).

One of the reasons I left Hilton after being one of their original elites (both as Gold & Diamond) was because they dicked around w/ brekkie & especially access to lounge for Golds (for a while but not lately dicked around w/ top tier).

At Marriott FS brands w/ exec lounge - and a major advantage over SPG - both Gold/Plats get either access to the lounge or free brekkie. Unlike SPG Plats Marriott Plats don't have to choose it as a Plat option & unlike SPG Golds Marriott Golds get free brekkie too. That's because Marriott has more stringent elite qualifications (currently) than SPG. Marriott has over 900 properties where you get free access to lounge or brekkie - quite frankly, a LOT more than SPG.

The Marriott FS brands are JW Marriott, Renaissance, Autograph Collection, Marriott & Delta hotels (and in Asia CYs). You get free brekkie daily or access to the exec lounge access.

With Marriott you also get free brekkie at SHS, RI, FI, TPS (regardless of status) - SPG doesn't have those brands - and again doesn't offer free brekkie to many.

If you're switching to Hilton, etc, that's certainly your option (and I've always been on record if you're not happy w/ a chain - ANY chain - walk w/ your $$), but make sure what you're switching to is better.

Cheers.

(a) I don't drink coffee, (b) I would never stay anywhere I would feel like a captive, and (c) I'm more than willing to skip breakfast and just eat the Kind bars we always travel with.

The last time we stayed in SF, the choice was the Westin, or the Marriot with "free" breakfast for an additional $50 per night.

But I know that other people are more serious about breakfast.

A fifty dollar savings might be enough for me to even consider a CY. ;)

Setting aside the perennial arguments about relative ease that MR and SPG elite levels can be earned, I wouldn't claim that MR chooses to include breakfast as a benefit at the Gold level of its program because it's more diffficut to get MR elite status than SPG.

Incidentally, the global geographic distribution of Marriott-group hotels that offer free breakfast anyway makes interesting reading, doesn't it ?

As Sharon mentioned, this topic has been discussed frequently both here and on the Hilton board. For my part, I used to not care about breakfast when traveling for work, as a nice bakery was perfectly sufficient. When traveling with family, however, it becomes a bigger deal. My kids have come to look forward to the huge/varied spreads in Asian hotels, and we find it is a huge time savings to eat in the hotel, rather than hunt about for a (safe) place to eat. Usually my kids eat enough at the buffet that they can also forgo a real lunch if we're traveling somewhere difficult to find good options or where they aren't fond of the food choices. So I do choose hotels based on breakfast on family trips, and for these I've found my Hilton honors status tends to be better than my Marriott gold status. Im not sure I've ever stayed at a Hilton in Asia or Europe that hasn't given us breakfast for four, while the Marriott's I've stayed at or contacted are usually quite strict about 2 people only. I'm in India now sandbox had been planning to stay at some Marriotts, but they wanted so much extra for the kids' breakfasts that I opted to stay elsewhere. For our family, the HHonors breakfast benefit is probably worth $50-80 per night in Europe/Asia. I do still often choose Marriott properties when alone for work, but my last few family trips have led me to prioritize maintaining my Hilton status over my Marriott status for the breakfast.

+1, it is when I go on vacation with family that it is a big deal. The Marriott no benefits at Resorts policy is especially annoying.

Travelling with my father-in-law and staying at Marriott hotels we got comp. breakfast for us 3 at Marriott Stuttgart (Sindelfingen), Gold - and Marriott Paris Champs Elysees, was no elite that time, reward stay points plus cash. The latter ("here is your voucher for three, you are our valued guests") was a kind of key experience for me (and not to forget how we were treated there in general), it impressed me so much, that as result I stay more and more at Marriott hotels and the group will next year be my no. 1 travel choice.

I find it convenient on business stays to have my coffee and my rolls with butter in the hotel as I leave early and usually have no time to loose to stop somewhere at the road.

But Elite breakfast I see mainly as a holiday benefit for stays with my family. We choose JW Marriott, Marriott, Ren, Autograph for holiday stays and get comp. breakfast. The resorts are excluded from the breakfast benefit. If someone pays with points a room at an expensive destination, IMHO he can - if not given as benefit - spend some money (full amount or some amount compensated by a voucher) for breakfast (and for F&B, dinner and so on in general), I think this is fair, and should support the hotel to keep up the high quality I want to get when on holidays. *) On stays at expensive luxury properties paying high rates I see it different (see Leaders Club - Elite breakfast benefit).

Hopefully the Marriott elite breakfast benefit of the joined program will include at least Sheraton, Westin, Tribute Portfolio, W and some Luxury Collection properties *)

EDIT:

*) I suggest Platinum members should get on paid and reward stays comp. breakfast (and Lounge access) at all properties incl. resorts and top luxury branded hotels (Ritz-Carlton, St. Regis, etc.)

It's unfortunate the results displayed in your link aren't accurate. Marriott IT at its best (not!).

I'd recommend checking these threads instead for the 5 full-service brands (JW Marriott, Renaissance, Autograph Collection, Marriott, Delta, Asia CYs) that offer free brekkie and/or lounge access to GoldPlats.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...-weekends.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...-weekends.html

For the limited service brands such as SHS, FI, RI, TPS, doesn't matter if someone is even a member of Marriott Rewards breakfast is provided to everyone.

Cheers.

MR breakfast benefits are weak even for plats. This is why I have been avoiding CY and resorts all the time.

Marriott bennies are weak if you want to stay at a CY (outside of Asia) & resorts. Other than that, breakfast bennies are not weak.

BTW - as I mentioned up thread, not all elites care about brekkie. Some are more interested in evening offerings.

Cheers.

I concur. Even when served in a lounge, the offerings are not what they used to be.

The best is when they offer or give you a continental breakfast in the restaurant and let you buy the full spread for $5 which I enjoyed in Monterey and Oakland. Now that is a good use of the $10 PLT welcome "gift".

Or they let you have the full spread for $0. ;)

Are these results not accurate in showing all the MR properties that offer free breakfast to everyone ?

The Breakfast Benefit is the most important of the Gold/Platinum benefits to me.

I don't eat lunch.
I pay my own expenses.
I love buffet breakfasts. I would prefer the buffet in the restaurant over the lounge.
I don't stay at Courtyard!

No the results aren't accurate. Marriott IT at its best (ie, Marriott IT sucks). It shows Ritz Carltons, Autograph Collections that are resorts, executive apartments, etc. I've heard SPG's IT dept is better than Marriott's. If that's the case hope we get the SPG IT team! :)

Cheers.

It'll never fly, but wouldn't it be nice if MI let us double up on one (semi-)guaranteed benefit if we gave up another? "Long Distance" could get the breakfast (that I rarely eat and wouldn't miss) at any property he's staying in, just for taking basic rooms in his paid class, and I could get the biggest free room in the hotel (even if it's just me for one night :)) w/o having to beg for it at check-in.

As indicated by the word "anyway," that link brings up Fairfield Inn, Residence Inn, Springhill Suites, and TownePlace Suites properties -- at least those that comply with the brand standards and are properly flagged in the Marriott.com database.

But that has nothing to do with the Gold/Platinum lounge/breakfast benefit at non-resort Marriott, Renaissance, JW Marriott, Autograph Collection, and Delta Hotels properties.

Sharon's lists are wonderful because they provide additional information about how the lounge/breakfast benefit is provided.

I eat breakfast every day, whether at home or on the road. I pay for rooms with my own money, and I appreciate a good breakfast.

The Gold/Platinum breakfasts at full-service properties, whether in the lounge or in the restaurant, are usually much better than the breakfasts at select-service properties where the room rate includes breakfast for everyone, regardless of status. The coffee is usually better at full-service properties too.

Agree the breakfast in lounges & restaurants is better than the limited service brands breakfast.

The link isn't correct in what it brings up though, since some of the entries on the link are Ritz Carltons, resort Autograph Collection properties & executive apartments, none of which offer free breakfast. Marriott IT sucks.

Cheers.

I like that idea!


.

Marriott's breakfast policy is THE original reason I discovered Hilton Honors and continue to do enough in that program to retain at least Gold status, if not Diamond.

My first frequent-travel job was at a company that was 100% Marriott corporate rates worldwide. I was a high Plat and mostly loved it. On business trips, I don't really care about breakfast or really much of elite status recognition (as long as they got bed/smoke right, which they always did).

But on leisure trips, especially now with kids, I realized we want some sort of breakfast option - lounge or buffet, anything is fine. And with Marriott, that meant we could never redeem at anything they arbitrarily deem a "resort", or at an increasing number of properties that simply opt-out of status benefits.

So I started kicking some business stays over to Hilton. Got their credit cards, started working their promos, and figured out how to work their program pretty well. Got hooked on them back when Gold/Diamond upgrades were amazing....6 nights in Hawaii with a huge upgrade and great breakfast easily trumped Marriott's 7 nights with little/no upgrade and no food option at all.

In 2017, I'm doing 75% of my business stays with Hilton and 25% with Marriott. I'm frustrated by how unstable the HH program is compared to Marriott and SPG (three major devaluations in 10 years vs. MR/SPG programs that are structurally pretty stable). But they follow the devaluations with juicy promos, so I keep playing the game. I know I don't want to lose status there, because that's where most of our bigger family trips are going. I just need enough Marriott points to do the occasional Travel Package, and as much as I love TP's I'm running out of ideas for city hotels that I want to spend a full week in...

And Hilton's russian roulette w/ exec lounge access (once I dropped to Gold) is the reason I basically dropped Hilton several years & switched my stays to Marriott vs. splitting them. With Marriott even as a Gold I would have had lounge access. With Hilton the only way I had lounge access was if I was upgraded to exec lounge floor & that didn't always happen. Breakfast is not as big a deal for me; I primarily use exec lounges in the evenings.

Cheers.

Both of them (MR and HH) have such weak evening offerings in the U.S. that I often forget to go up there and check out the lounge at night.

Internationally, yes...definitely love to use the lounges in the evening and would probably be booking Marriott if I were Gold in both programs.

Is that why Marriott's breakfast benefit seems a lot more limited? Giving too many people the benefit likely dilutes it for everyone.

No breakfast at resorts, and more than half the brands seems limited.

The 3 Ritz Carltons on the list (1 in Indonesia and 2 in Thailand) all specifically say "free breakfast" in their summary description, similarly for all 4 of the listed Autograph Collections (2 in Azerbaijan, 1 each in Greece & Spain). What gives ?

Indeed. This illustrates that MR has a huge 'free breakfast for all' hotel estate in the US, and a very sparse offering everywhere else in the world. One could equally argue that MR can 'afford' to offer free breakfast at the Gold tier level (compared, say, to SPG, which can't) because the heartland of MR gold members are the USA-based ones who earn and use their gold status in this huge estate where they get a free (cheap to provide and low quality) breakfast anyway.

We must be reading different descriptions, as I'm not seeing free breakfast as the standard offerings for those properties (or the exec apartments listed as well where free breakfast is not the norm).

Marriott has 469 full-service properties (am not including resorts unless there's a report by FTers of free brekkie offered, such as Vietnam) outside of the US that either have an exec lounge or offer free brekkie if there isn't one. That's not really 'sparse'. It also doesn't include the int'l limited service brands that offer free brekkie as part of their brand standards.

Are there less MAR limited service brands outside of the US? Yes. Limited service brands is something Marriott is slowly rolling out rest of world. However, SPG isn't exactly robust in brands in general that offer free brekkie or have lounges, whether that be full-service or limited service & have less of both outside of the US. I'm perplexed by your comment that SPG can't afford to offer its Golds free brekkie in the USA.

The one thing I think most of us are in agreement on is that Marriott comes in 2nd/3rd to SPG & Hilton wrt resorts & free brekkie. The lack of free breakfast at resorts has been a thorn in most MAR elites side for years & is nothing new.

Anyway, DELee did a nice job w/ his summary as did sdsearch's additional main point so well done them:) But as mentioned, free brekkie has been discussed in this forum & other hotel forums for years & periodically crops up every year or every couple of years. So we're all probably commenting on items we've commented on before.

Can't speak for others, but I'm moving on as I'm not sure much that's new will be added (well until the programs merge late '18/early '19& we find out how both sides will be affected wrt breakfast!).

Have a good weekend!

Cheers.

When I'm on business breakfast isn't as important because I can generally expense breakfast to a client or my employer.

When I'm on vacation having a free breakfast is important to me, which is why I've never understood Marriott's stupid policy of denying a free breakfast to elites at so-called resort properties. By the end of 2017, I'll be at 150 nights with Marriott. I've already re-qualified for 2018. Giving me a complementary yogurt parfait, medium-sized latte, and maybe an egg-white with spinach omelet at a resort property isn't going to bankrupt Marriott.

I was in Los Cabos at the wonderful J.W. Marriott recently. The breakfast buffet was a rip-off at $30 per person. Off the menu, I had an egg-white with spinach omelet and coffee, including tax and tip, for under $20 in the restaurant. Other days I had a yogurt and oats bowl and cappuccino in the coffeehouse cafe, by the lobby, for $15-ish.

What's even worse is that an increasing number of properties, as has been documented on FlyerTalk, seem to be skirting the spirit of a complimentary breakfast by providing only coffee and a doughnut/pastry.

Just click the link, then filter by brand, then by country. What do you read ?

I'll drink four to five cans of Diet Pepsi per day. So, for me, the lounge or M Club is a value in that regard.

I have found that some Courtyards look the other way and comp one or two bottles of Diet Pepsi for a platinum. Not always, but often enough.

Let's not forget that breakfast buffets cost the hotel practically nothing. They make a fortune.