If your hotel has moved to higher category than pre 8/18, any change made to the booking would VOID the initial level with the lower category cert.

Thank you for posting that. It proves a willing and capable agent CAN help.
It is correct the QP80 is for the OC6 mapped to NC4, while QP83 is for the OC5 mapped to NC4.
You now receive the 30K refund back, much sooner than those who are waiting for the handling of their requests submitted online.

IIRC the latest response was that there were technical difficulties so we cannot handle such requests now. Please resubmit it at later date. This is at least change of tone from the initial ridiculous response about no refund and your cert is now not valid because you have not attached to a property prior 8/18... blah blah blah. That was the Original Intent by Marriott which finally gave in to the public outcry and agreed to a refund. Unfortunately judged by how things have been going, one would be lucky to see the 30K refund by October.

What you have done can be applied to virtually any downgrade from higher category certs. A poster has downgraded his Old Cat 8 to NC4 and got back 135K from the OC8, reorder a QP83 with 45K as you did.

Any change done on existing booking on a property goes up in category would VOID the original booking and you wound up having a cert no longer can book the same hotel.

Agree. Sit tight and not be surprised when Sept 18th comes we still may not see ANY official announcement of any kind and the mess remains just the same.
While here we sweat over the unusuable certificates, folks on the SPG side are literally losing their points into Dark Hole. The highest disappeared points I have read, was 610K points... Some people's SPG accounts simply lost all their point balances, and many who canceled SPG bookings but the internal e-Certs attached to the bookings were not canceled simultaneously. As a result, no point is refunded from the canceled reward bookings!
They are getting even worse responses from Marriott CS while SPG CS could not help because SPG system is no more.

In the short run, it doesn't make much difference whether the lack of notice about upcoming changes in travel packages was due to neglect, incompetence or dishonesty. Although Marriott has regularly extended hotel certificates, allowed category changes, and provided modest refunds for unused hotel partial packages, MPG was under no obligation to continue the practice. Unlike SPG's Terms & Conditions which stated that advance notice of devaluations would be provided, Marriott's did not. Still, based on prior experience with both MR and SPG and the fact that the head of the combined Loyalty program was a (13-year?) SPG veteran, I would have expected some notice of impending changes.

It's amazing how the discussions on FT appear to have shifted from aggressive methods to achieve LTPP to looking at other hotel chains. Although I believe the apparent end of the policy of allowing extensions and categories should have been disclosed in advance, that loss of flexibility is less objectionable than not announcing the actual conversion rates. Since converting and attaching legacy hotel awards is still a time consuming process, allowing category changes to those certificates over the next few weeks might negate some of the recent negative feelings towards MPG.

I'm not despondent, but would like the option. The loss of flexibility to upgrade was revealed (if you can call it that) only very close to 8/18, well after the time I selected my TP. Together with Marriott's category changes which have moved many average 4 star hotels into NC7, it greatly limits my options. But it's an annoyance compared to the way the changes have affected others.

Update on my situation. So after getting my cat 4 night partial pack, I was unable to book the Springhill suites main gate in Anaheim on points advance.

Even after depleting my account, I was unable to book it on points advance (at 0 percent, 50 percent or 90 percent of the points of the booking)

So back to the phones. First agent was able to book it on points advance, but unable to attach due to September 19 quote, but at least have a booking to work with

Another 45 minutes later, gave new agent the booking reference number and he managed to attach the cert without issues.

I am not touching this booking in case of jinxing myself

Thanks for the update. Looks like you are all set. IIRC, you canceled a reservation online and the OC5 did not return to your account. Instead you got 45K pts refunded. Eventually you were able to reorder a NC4 (QP83) with the 45K but was not able to book.

This is the First DP that the NC can be attached to a property, unless I have missed posts on that.

I wonder why some (very few though) agent could do it but majority of them could not? Did the agent mention anything about "Old System" or anything like s/he had to go to a different screen to do it?

I have a 7 nights at HKG for 3rd week of Oct that is booked with Points Advance method. Currently my certs are the OC1-5 (the property is at 25K NC4). I have up to Oct 10 to attach the cert (per the 14 days rule). Hopefully by Sept 19th we could use our certs without having to jump thru hoops, waste many manhours / kill many braincells just to be able to use our certs.

I have my OC7 cert attached to a SpringHill that is now a NC6. What are the chances that a Marriott agent will be willing/forced to upgrade my OC7 (NC5) cert to NC6 without a fee if I request a date change for my reservation ? HUCA much ?

Nil on both (willing/forced) but it does not hurt to try and report back. May be you would get super lucky.

Marriott will honor the booking made before category going up. Any change would void the original reservation and everything starts anew. That has been the practice long exists. Dont see how any agent would do anything differently, let alone being "forced" to allow an upgrade. not to mention "without a fee". .

First agent did mention multiple screens, and said that the screen she was looking at didn't have the certificate available to be attached.

Went to ask for a supervisor who mentioned that it's blocked until september 19. My stay starts Sep 19 so waiting wasn't really an option with the points typically debited out of the account a week before the stay

It was only after that that she tried to make a booking and points advance was available. I took it as it was still progress, and HUCA afterwards

I managed to attach my new NC4 (previously OC1-6) to a property in HKG (a new cat 1-4 ) by asking the agent after she downgraded the OC6 to NC4. The confirmed booking and 30k refund showed up instantly in my Marriott app.

All done on the same call? If so, you were very lucky to get an agent who is not only willing to help but also competent, knew how to go about it to make it work.

We now have enough DPs that NC CAN be attached to a point advance booking. It is just a matter finding an agent willing to attempt the process. SIGH. it really should not be this hard.

Wow! I put my request in on Saturday and it was still there then.

Marriott management just does not know how to run a company. Sad!

Clarifying my booking was not a points advance booking. I consider it a standard "new" 7 night travel package certificate booking after requesting a downgrading from a "legacy" 7 night travel package certificate and receiving a 30k points refund as well. Sorry for the confusion.

However the downgrade and the booking was done on the same call. I called 1 801 468 4000, rather than the elite Customer Care 1-800 number, to see if I got through to an experienced/knowledgeable Marriott Rewards agent, and it seemed I did. Perhaps it was luck of the draw?

Yes, I thought that Marriott's policy of having Starwood point conversion as 1:3 being generous. I also thought giving Starwood Gold with Marriott Gold, and Starwood Platinum to Marriott Platinum generous.

So yes, they are generous to the Starwood members.

Obviously they run out of money being generous ..... or the shareholders have knocked the door saying, I need to see value from my investments.

Cancelled a booking with OC5 , e-certificate disappeard
 

Did 45K back to your account? That was the case up till your post - canceled a reservation with a cert attached, the cert is cancelled and the pts returned to one's account. Everyone has been able to reorder a NC 4 with the returned 45K. May have to call back a few times but essentially those who wanted their certs back have been able to do so.

That is why you should DETACH the cert first before cancelling the reservation. There is a poster did exactly that after seeing what happened on the attached cert if the underlying booking is canceled. His post is very recent on this thread.

While the whole TP thing is a $hit show there are things the customers can do to prevent $hit happened to them if they take time to follow this thread and carefully read the DPs reported here, so to avoid perils and learn how to make things work.

You can get your cert back. Make sure to call Marriott Rewards department and not the general reservations. Make it clear it was their error. With this TP cert fiasco whenever I have pointed out the problems were all due to Marriott's error(s) they helped me, eventually. The first time they botched up when the agent said there was nothing she could do to fix Marriott's mistake I told her in no uncertain terms that she would need to connect me to a supervisor which she did and the supervisor then "fixed" it. And, by "fixed" it, I mean he thought he fixed it but he made a mistake and had upgraded my package from an OC8 (NC5) to an OC9 (NC6) and charged me 30k points for the upgrade which was wasted on me since I only needed an NC5 hotel. But, at least he tried and a few days and many calls later I am whole again with my replacement NC5 cert in my account and points exactly where they were before they cancelled my cert.

I was able to call to downgrade my OC8 and received 30k points refund.

• Description: PARTIAL PACKAGE - 7 NIGHTS CATEGORY 5
• Reward code: QP91
• Valid through: Tuesday, August 27, 2019
• Total points redeemed: 105,000
• Confirmed on: Monday, August 27, 2018

In fact, I agree with that. Without the 1:3 conversion policy, we weren't able to see the surge of lots of floating 7 night certificates in the last few months.
Marriott was also very generous turning SPG gold which is virtually useless into Marriott gold which is lot more useful.

Attn: Marriott competitor
 

This idea may be a bit crazy, but a savvy competitor could swoop in now with a marketing coup. - Just ask us to surrender our Marriott certificates for equivalent certificates (or points) in your program. Logistically, it's easier than most status matches. To start, just have us book a 7-night award stay checking in tomorrow, which would automatically be nonrefundable. Then, the member can cancel the award and email proof of cancellation. (Or you can ask us to close out our Marriott account, but I'll need more incentive to give up my Lifetime Marriott Silver.)

Why would a hotel chain want to give you a 7 night stay for free, exactly?

Status matches work because it is only marginal costs which arise only when you stay with them. They are not going to foot the bill for 7 nights of free stays.

Wyndham very briefly offered a 4 to 1 match for SPG members that donated their points to charity instead of transferring to Marriott. It was cancelled after a couple hours - presumably due fraud issues. So - not completely out of the realm of possibility.

Besides, Wyndham is Ramada, not in the same league as Starwood, and Starpoints (or three Marriott points) were worth more than four Wyndham points each in redemption value, so you'd actually lose value by making the exchange. The exchange rate would have to be 1:5 or better IMHO

Poaching Starwood members may have been a good idea, but suffered from the implementation.

Presumably the fact that: 1. it was Wyndham, and 2. it was cancelled after just hours, shows that the same deal is not going to be offered by any credible competitor to the combined SPG/Marriott chain.

Bear in mind that we are talking about anything up to 7 nights at the chain's most expensive properties. That's one heck of a customer acquisition cost, in exchange for what?

I edited the Wiki.

It appears NC4 is QP83, NC5 is QP91, NC6 is QP99. Assuming my original guess is right, NC7 is QP107.

Happy received a NC80 which coded as QP80 which seems to be a special case.

Thanks! With the amount of posts in this thread I think the wiki is underutilized here.

QP80 is the +30k conversion (from Nick's work). Same as QP88 and I presume 96.

OC5->NC4-45 QP83
OC6->NC4-75 QP80
OC7->NC5-105 QP91
OC8->NC5-135 QP88
OC9->NC6-165 QP99
OCT3->NC6-195 QP96
OCT5->NC7-315 QP107

The last two are guesses.

​​​​​​​Few data points suggest that upgrades and downgrades are being allowed based on the point values attached to the category designation. Maybe this is by design for implementation after Sept18, maybe a one time only, or maybe something allowed in the system but not supposed to happen. Might be worth attempting to upgrade if that is your aim before that option is closed, if in fact it will be.

QP80 is NC4 with 75K pts versus QP83 with 45K pts. Skimthetrees has special codes for his OC8 to NC5.
I believe there is a set of codes for those OCs that have overpaid 30K, i.e. only apply to OC6, OC8 and Tier1-3 when you convert.

I also agree with zozeppelin's assessment of the situation.

Else the sequence on the "normal" OCs would be as what you listed above in the increment of 8.

I have an OC7 that is now an NC5 by new table. I wonder if I can call and go from an QP91 to a QP99 which would end up being 60k points for a two tier upgrade. Or if I could convince them that since I have an NC5 now that I should go from a QP88 to a QP91 for 30k points. Certainly that would take some acting. But in all seriousness, has anyone had any luck UPGRADING the newly converted TPs?

I was aware of the special cases. I decided to leave the decision about whether or not to add them to the Wiki to others because I wasn't sure if the additional data points would make things clearer or more confusing for those who haven't been following the drama.

Has anyone been able to downgrade their cert more than 1 level? i.e. Cat 9 to Cat 6 for a 90k point refund?

Great. It seems it is worth all the way going up to NC7-QP107 before category 8 kicks in next year.

I didn't find NC6 hotels I really want to stay for 7 nights. But there are many ones at category 7-8 I would love to stay.

Definitely, it is worth a try. Is there anyone successful doing this?

If one time upgrade opportunity is given, I will definitely upgrade my cert all the way up. (special thanks to spg luxury card)

I believe we now have enough DPs to finetune the table Nick has posted. He has 2 tables one for the normal conversion one for the additional value inbedded in the NCs.
The 2 tables would help those who want to downgrade or upgrade.

Called to have my old Tier 4-5 replaced with an equivalent new category 7. They cancelled old certificate and were unable to issue a new one. Supposedly the new cat 7's will not be available until next week. So my points are back in my account and I asked them to notate what happened so that I don't get any pushback on "buying" a new certificate a week from now.

Was able to book the Marriott Wailea Resort with a points advance reservation. Hoping I'll be able to attach my cert once Marriott gets their heads screwed on.