Changes to MVCI Program
 

Not sure if this is allowed - if not mods please feel free to delete. Over at tug2.net, there is a very active discussion regarding the change in Marriott Timeshare from a week based to a points system. As a flyertalker and owner at MVCI, I see value in the new system but most (all) of the timeshare owners see this is a big negative. Not saying the changes are best for the owners, but certainly value can be derived.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124194

Isn't this similar to the HH model?

I haven't studied timeshares in great detail but at a glance the points system seemed easier for a novice looking at the secondary market to understand.

Marriott's new "points" based system may or may not be better for those who aren't currently owners. But in looking at the changes, it looks like a large percentage of existing owners aren't going to like the new program.

We own two weeks (Aruba and Phuket) and our not too moved my the new points system. We use Aruba every year and Phuket about every other year.

Be on the lookout for second-hand MCVI timeshares to be selling for next to nothing soon....

I have to admit I scanned it really really quickly but I was left with the impression this would impact new owners but existing.....as an owner I haven't seen anything informing me of any changes

My understanding is that this is a new program that does not affect current owners.

New owners can buy into this new program or the old system.

I think I will convert to the new system as it opens up a few options that my regular week did not get me. I bought a Silver week to use and now I have access to a gold or Plat week, albeit for 5 nights. If I use the TS in partnership the Marriott Rewards program (or even cash/Marriott cheques) or even getaways through II - I can get great benefit from this system. If I am inclinde to trade, most of the TS that I am interested in have a FS Marriott Resort next door, so I can simply use points for two days to avoid the markup on the weekend nights. I like St. Kitts and all, but 7 nights is stretching it a bit. Five seems ideal with another 5 in PR or some near-by island seems more ideal.

I have been reading the TUG board, and even though I own a TS, cant understand why some people have 5-6 weeks, or trade for points.

I have 7 weeks because I'm retired. I don't trade for points anymore but having the option is nice.

I agree that the sentiment on the TUG board regarding the new points based Marriott Vacation Club system is running strongly on the negative side. I'd say that Marriott is getting blasted.

I find it interesting that Marriott has a rep who posts on this board, but I never see a "Marriott Concierge" equivalent posting on TUG.

MC only represents the MR Brand, not any of the lodging/time share products

In my limited browsings of TUG, that seems like a somewhat higher-flammability board than the normal FlyerTalk travel boards. Might be a bit of a tougher role to play as an official rep there... (I think we agree it'd be a different rep from our MC - someone intimately familiar with MVCI in particular.)

I just reread the press release and still am left with the impression it wont impact me as a current owner (I do have a few contacts over in that division but haven't reached out to them yet)

If you plan to use you home resort - on the face of it there really is no change.

I have to say, having bought our week at Ko Olina (EOY odd) that I would have bought more if I'd known this was really coming! When we bought, the only thing holding me back from buying more than EOY was that Marriott did not have the system similar to Disney. Our sales person said it was coming, but I was doubtful. Now, if we had added the other year last year for $15K, that same allotment of points would cost $20K. Yikes. And we would have the flexibility of using two weeks at a time, the year we wanted (with banking or borrowing).

I think also TUG must have some folks that are more not happy and also prefer to buy resale (nothing wrong with a bargain!).

I think it's a nice system, and you aren't obligated to join.

I did talk with Marriott today, and as of now, they are no longer selling WEEKS at a "home resort". They are only selling POINTS. Minimum initial purchase is 1,000 points at $9,200 right now. Add on is in 250 increments at 92 cents a point. For that price, I'm not adding any points. I was going to buy Disney years ago, and liked the banking and borrowing idea. Oh, and the new maintenance fees are 40 cents per point.

HTH

I'm an owner and not liking the idea that, basically, Marriott give me say 4000 vacation points for my week - but the cost of that week in points to buy in 4500+ points...

plus, that depending on the week on my deed - this may affect how many points I will be awarded if i decide to opt into the new programme.

I've been reading about it, and it appears to be a horrible system. With the current/old system, you get priority at your home resort if you want to exchange back in to a different time period. Not with the new points system. They also want more points to use my weeks than they say they are worth. What a crock. And if you want to exchange vacation points to MR points, you end up getting a LOT less than if you traded your week directly to MR points. They have weekend point rates jacked way up too.

Definitely will NOT be going into the new program. Also, they want to charge an outrageous fee just to join for the privilege to exchange my weeks for points and get less value out of them.
Time to send a nasty email complaining... boy I hope this new program really backfires and their sales drop down the crapper.

As of June 21st you can only buy points, they will no longer be selling weeks.

On the surface at the current time, I own three weeks and superficially it looks like my use of the program would have pluses and minuses...essentially a wash for me.

That being said,there are two very negative issues I can see with the program.

The first is the so called "breakage" tax whereby Mr. Marriott gets to extract his pound of flesh..simply because he can...in some cases, up to 20% but on average has been reported at 7%.

The second negative is that they are now selling arbitrary points that Mr. Marriott can, again, re-value to anything he feels like. Much like the MR hotel points system. The problem is the buyer buys a fixed # of points and when old Bill decides that his retirement fund is running low he simply re-values the points and viola he now has a nice cola(cost of living adjustment)--kind of like the government. :(

Given the sales tactics and the knowledge base of the general public, MVCI will get more then enough of the general public to 'drink the Kool Aid' and this program will be a success.

Well it'll be fun when I go on the next MVCI tour when I'm at staying at one in Sept. Sorry, I'm never going to buy into a 'points' system because it isn't anything tangible, and as you said Marriott can change the points levels at their whim as they did with MR and devalue everything.

This will negatively impact existing owners. I havent read the TUG forum yet. My opinion comes from my own first impression after reviewing the program last night.

Marriott will now maintain its own internal inventory for owners on the point program, decreasing the availability for those on the traditional week system. This can and will occur on ALL deposits, not just point deposits.

For example, I just deposited my Orlando week last night. Traditionally, the week would automatically go to Interval International for exchange and Marriott owners had first crack at it for 60 days.

With the new system, Marriott has no incentive to give it to Interval. They will maintain it and use it for inventory for their points system, excluding traditional owners who trade with Interval from using it.

Not only is there an up front cost with the new point system, the value that they are assigning to weeks is reduces the opportunity for people who own the less expensive resorts. I have four Marriott weeks that I have successfully traded to Hawaii every year for the last 10 years. They are offering me for my 1950 points for my Orlando Cypress Harbour property. When I searched how many points Maui and Kauai cost, they ranged from 4500 to 6800 points. Therefore, it would cost me two to three weeks for one week in Hawaii.

My Streamside Vail Colorado weeks are only worth 950 and my Hilton Head is worth 450 points!!! I just traded the same Hilton Head property for Kauai for this August. Under the new point system, one week in Kauai would cost me 15 years of Hilton Head weeks.

Now tell me it doesnt effect current owners.

I guess the system would benefit any owners who own Kauai or Maui. They can probably get 20 weeks in Branson for one of their Hawaii weeks.

Not true. The annual Club Dues is $165 which you must pay even if you occupy at your home resort. That was free in the old system.

So true. My weeks in Orlando are almost useless now for internal exchanges to other Marriotts. Devaluations already killed the old trade-for-points option (where Marriott makes an 64% profit with the growing spread between the 110,000 points that gives me and the 180,000 at which they sell that same week to other MR members). Basically MVCI became an ordinary and expensive timeshare for most owners who can use, rent or exchange to other non-Marriott properties through II.

I agree. I own one week (a 2BR lockoff at Desert Villas 2, white (Gold) season). I have owned this since 2004. Usually we lock off the unit, and I have gotten good exchanges. In the past, I could often get a 2BR for the 1BR portion, a 1BR in exchange for the studio, and sometimes even a 2BR in exchange for the studio portion.

If I sign up under the new program, I get 2150 points. I won't be able to do nearly as well with 2150 points as I did with the program in the past.

There are multiple threads on TUG that discuss the new program. If you try to read them, you'll be very busy. The main thread went well over 1,000 posts a few days ago.

I think many TS groups are going to points. Last stay I had at my home resort I had a lot of pressure to convert my existing contract to points. I have two one bedroom units. I can go one week with friends or stay for two weeks forever. That's all I need. The way I see it, if I convert to points I give the resort owners a lot of power to re value my contract any way they want. I opted for a fixed rate home loan many years ago when Adjustable Rate Mortgages were all the rage. ARM's are killing people financially now. I see time share points as the same poison. They may look good now, but when demand rises for certain properties, how many points will you have to spend to get a quality vacation. I'll keep my two guaranteed weeks in the room configuration of my choice.

Good Morning, all.

We have been relaying all of your comments (and, in fact, quoting many of these posts verbatim) to the appropriate contacts at Marriott Vacation Club. I am happy to share with all of you the following message directly from the Marriott Vacation Club team:

“Marriott Vacation Club welcomes the opportunity to answer individual questions and share information on how the benefits of the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations ownership program apply to each of our valued owners. Because every situation is different and each Owner unique, please contact us at your convenience so a Vacation Ownership Advisor or Marriott Vacation Club representative can assist you.

Marriott Vacation Club Owner Services
1-800-845-4226

Hours: 9 AM - 9 PM EST (Monday - Friday)
9 AM - 5 PM EST (Saturday & Sunday)

Marriott Vacation Club Corporate Office
Customer Advocacy
1-800-936-6824
[email protected]

Hours: 8:30 AM - 5:30 PM EST (Monday - Friday)”

I hope this proves to be a helpful resource for all of our Marriott Vacation Club members of FlyerTalk.

Thank you,

Andrew

"New Program" reduces value of loyal TS owners
 

Despite all the spin that Marriott puts on the New Option for reservations there is no denying that it reduces the value of prior "week owners" inventory. Giving the NEW POINTS PROGRAM participants --both those that convert and new members--the ability the RESERVE 3 days AHEAD of Weeks owners at 13 Months is a debasement of what we were SOLD by Marriott as a weeks program. Not only is it unfair, it is disrespectful and very devious on Marriott's part.

If they had given EQUAL reservation opportunity at 13 months for multiple owners at their HOME RESORT the outrage would have been 1) much less 2) nothing to complain about and 3) more honest.

After the many many complaints after raising the Rewards Hotel Points needed for stays plus creating the higher Category 8 --it is obvious that good customer relations does NOT exist within Marriott. Yes times are tough for Marriott --but aren't they also tough for us consumers.

I am a 7 week owner and have referred 2 timeshare purchasers in the past. While Marriott certainly can ADD new programs--but to do so on a basis that injures and debases the value that old owners purchased based on what MARRIOTT TIMESHARE salesman told us is very short sighted.

Grandfather in the old reservation system of 13 Months on the same day basis and I think that the improvement in Relations with previous purchasers will be great.

While there are not many posts here---if you look on the T/S website (link is in 1st post of this thread) there are 1553--yes 1553 posts and about 90% are existing weeks owners that feel like they have been treated unfairly. Marriott ought to consider that once their REPUTATION goes bad it will be almost impossible to restore it.

I own an MVCI developer week (platinum Ocean Pointe), a privately purchased Marriott Grande Ocean week, and assorted non-Marriott weeks.

I have read through all the Destinations Club documents, and the main conclusion I have drawn is that the new system is neither inherently good nor evil with respect to current owners. Everything depends on the specific needs and interests of a particular owner.

For example, someone who is happy with the current system is under no obligation to join the Club. One of the much maligned features of the club is the point credit given when one enrolls a week in the club, and the higher number of points needed to reserve the week. While this sounds incredibly evil, it probably helps the existing owner who stays with the old system.

As a point of reference, my week is worth 4325 points. I can reserve any week in the Jan to April time frame according to the current and continuing system. However, a point user wishing to reserve a week in February or March has to pay 6000 points, or so, 7300 for the prime President's Day week. These higher prices are certainly likely to dampen the rush of point owners to reserve those prime weeks. Incidentally, prime weeks will only be available to the extent that owners of those weeks join the club.

There are various other subtleties that can offer advantages to existing owners.

The key point that I am trying to make is that every owner has an obligation to work through the details and see if it makes sense for him to join. Rejecting the new club because someone else emotionally states that it is the world's worst system for him will be a grievous mistake as will be joining because someone else says it will work perfectly for him. And yes, both situations are possible because there are many different owner situations.

Art

My 2BR Platinum week at the just refurbished Sabal Palms, with access to all services at the Marriot World Center in Orlando, was valued at 2,150 points which are do not take me to any other MV resort during high or medium season. It would take me 2 weeks plus $2,500 worth of MFs, to book your week valued at 4,325 points. That's it until Marriott decides to devalue the whole system as they did many times with the Rewards Program. Crazy...

MC...Im sure that Marriott is monitoring Tug as well but if by chance they are not could you pls pass on that calling owner services as suggested in your post will only work once the reps are up to speed themselves on the program. We've called 3x since last weekend wanting clarification on a number of issues. During the first call we asked 2 questions. By the 2nd call we had further questions and asked the 2nd rep to clarify one of the answers given by the first rep, and we were given a completely different answer. For a further question we had, after the rep checked with a "points specialist" it was suggested to us that we call back in a few days, because "we're really not on top of all this yet". A little frustating when we cant get answers from Marriott, or when M isnt sure how they're own program is going to play out.

Thanks for passing this on !

Marriott has a strong portfolio of resorts and hotels and a well respected reputation for consistently high quality service and product. But this new points offering is disappointing.

Marriott gets much more then the owner in this deal. Marriott gets paid up front to take back its ownership and voting rights, but not any economic responsibility normally associated with ownership. Marriott gets an additional annual fee in the form of club dues (an administrative add-on to an already lucrative management fee buried in the annual maintenance fees).

Marriott gives an internal exchange capability with the ability to travel where, when and for how long the guest wants.

Marriott leverages the transaction further by giving fewer points for a week then the week requires.

It also appears that weeks owners who do not join will be disadvantaged at their own resort with a priority booking capability for points owners.

Here is a great example... I own a Gold week at Frenchman's Cove and it is valued at only 2775pts. To stay at my home resort during most of the season I purchased would cost 2975 points (about 7% breakage). My parents own a Plat week, their value is 3650 but it would cost over 4000 to stay (over 10% breakage).

I am told by various sales reps and insiders at Interval that Frenchman's Cove has the highest trade value in the entire system. In fact, this was one of the major things the sales people push at the property (I've been on several tours over the past few years at this location). As an owner, I am able to fairly easily exchange my gold week every year for platinum time and string a two week trip with my parent's week. I've also been able to easily exchange to other high demand properties in peak season. This would not be even remotely possible with the new system.

I am now extremely worried along with other posters that with this crappy points system Marriott will be holding more weeks back and reduce exchange inventory in the interval system, thereby making it much more difficult to exchange back in to your home resort or other locations. Marriott severely undervalue many locations as they are not taking into account supply/demand of your home property.

Boy, Timeshares are starting to sound more and more like all the Wall Street derivatives and other mortgage "products" that nearly sunk the country 2 years ago. Just keep adding options and confusion until the regular guy without an MBA can't keep up.

As a non-owner, I just can't see what the fuss is all out. For the first time ever, I stayed at a MVC at Grand Vista, Orlando paying $169 less a $30 night credit - in lieu of a normal hotel. Just me and 1500 other units sharing the same tiny pools off the side of a highway.

Yes, the rooms were larger and nicer than a normal hotel but to lock yourself in at these rates, year after year, is it just me that's crazy?

No, it isn't just you.

I really do like staying at MVCI properties. The extra room, full kitchen, in-room laundry, and quite often access to a nearby resort amenities more than makes up for no CL. But over the last few years, when I've looked, I've been fairly lucky enough to find rates like what you mention that end up being less than a yearly mainenance fee would be, much less add in the cost of purchasing a week. :eek:

So I also just don't really see the big benefit either. That is probably why I don't own any MVCI (or other Timeshare) weeks, but have been on quite a few of the tours for points or a reduced nightly rate. :cool:

Be glad you didn't - you could save a bundle purchasing on the resale market. As it stands now, you only got ripped off for the week your purchased.

Actually ARMs were a better deal at various points during the last decade. My 5/1 just adjusted down to 3.25% for the rest of the year. And if I refi now I can get 4.5% on a 30-year fixed which is the lowest rate on record. I don't know anyone getting killed on ARMs except for the subprime borrowers who probably should not have been underwritten in the first place. People with fixed rate loans are generally doing refi's now (if they haven't already) , but there is no way for them to get back the interest that they overpaid by taking a 30 year fixed product with a higher initial rate.

Agree 100%. Timeshares are a ponzi-like scheme but perhaps similar to FF mileage programs than social security. Demand will always be very high for peak weeks and peak properties, such that those who own lesser properties may find it difficult to trade for the prime weeks. And the maintenance fees will only go one direction (over the past decade they have doubled on my brother's SVO week). Hence many strapped owners are selling their units for next to nothing just to escape the burden of maint fees.

That being said, both my parents and my in-laws get good value from their timeshares vs. the cost of booking resort hotel rooms for the entire extended family. They are able to do so because they are able to make reservations for peak weeks as soon as the schedule opens (365 days @ 9am) or trade for peak weeks at the earliest opportunity.

But for many of us it would be a ripoff, and we all know how points inevitably get depreciated. Not good news for Marriott owners.

Count us out (I think)
 

I am very glad that we own where we're happy to return each year -- Maui Ocean Club (2 weeks) and Canyon Villas (PHX)(1 week). We've been using an old Grande Vista week to pair woth CV to get 13 month booking rights, and bought Lakeshore Reserve planning to use it every other year or so, or rent it out. We have liberally traded GV for MR points, occasionally deposited and traded through II over the years since our first MVCI purchase in 1995 (Kauai Beach Club, which Marriott took in trade from us in 2007 or 2008 for our MOC purchase at much more than we had paid for it - a rarity, I suspect) When we trade, it is almost always to other top-trading properties.

All that said, I have NO interest in the new points system. I suspect most owners of Platinum weeks in premium locations, esp. those (like us) who bought from Marriott, will NOT join, though there will be outright revolt if and when Marriott cuts the MR link. (We have kids living outside the US, so the MR points have been very useful.) Our GV property will be worth little, but it was paid off long ago, and I expect we'll be able to rent it to cover the maintenance fee. If Marriott inventory available through II dries up, so be it - going back to Maui and PHX every year isn't so bad, especially since those are working vacations, and we'll find a use for the FL weeks.

However, this is only first impression - I reserve the right to change my mind completely after I delve into the materials more thoroughly!

Browsing all of this makes me even more glad I was able to resell my Kauai TS(shortly before the 2008 stock market crash). For me, I'd been sold a bill of goods by the sales mgr there and didn't know enough of what I was doing to figure it out at the time(my fault).

Just highlights to me how often these deals are not so good, as one never knows how things are gonna change(such as 'extra' assessments for building repairs, higher taxes, etc., etc., etc.).

I'll take my chances with either conventional reservations or TS rentals; not much downside there, just a known $cost$ up front.

While TS are ok for some, I sure wouldn't recommend it for most. Most surprising to me(dumb, I know) was how Marriott turned out to be just one more corporation out for max $$$. BUT, I'm OUT and I learned my lesson on that one :)

As an owner of 7 TS's myself, I guess you guys would need to spend as much time on TUG as you spend here to understand the value of TS's. ;)

I'm a frequent lounger at TUG and went back and forth about buying a Marriott until I finally decided to sit it out with the new points program coming onboard and bought Hilton instead. I am so glad I did despite being a pretty loyal MR user for 20 years.

Marriott has just killed the resale market for their owners with this new system with points that do not transfer with the sale. Pretty soon Marriott resales will be selling on ebay for $1 like Wyndham and other TS's do. Lucky for Marriott they have ROFR and will be scooping up those $1 deals to fund their points program. It's actually pure genius on the part of Marriott. Ruin the market for sellers who need to sell so you can fly in and grab those killer ebay deals without having to lift a finger to find them.

No expensive resorts to build and have to carry while selling, just resell what you've already built and during these tough times how can they lose. Unless of course a buyer sitting in a MVCI sales presentation goes back to his room to research if what he just bought is worth the price he paid. When google brings him right to TUG and he sees all the flame throwing going on then Marriott might be processing alot of recission letters.

It's a shame they decided to skim on their most loyal fan base. It's just such bad business practice. Unfortunately all this negative press has tarnished my 25 plus year relationship with the brand and am happy that Hilton treats it's resale customers with much more respect.

And in case you are wondering why I own 7 TS's, it's because when you learn to work the TS systems, you can stay in nice 2 bedroom resorts for about $50 a night or even less by learning the ins and outs of TS's. It might surprise you to know that I've even stayed in a 2 bedroom for 7 nights in Orlando for $79 a week. Now this was no dump but a great TS with all amenities included. So that's why many people on TUG own several weeks. We are as fanatical about TS's as you guys are about flying.

That said, I hope to learn alot from everyone here and I hope that I can share my knowledge of TS'ing. :D

After digesting the latest thread on TUG, I'm thinking you won't be changing your mind anytime soon.

The idea of having two separate pools and not allowing legacy (enrolled weeks owners) access to the points pool is total insanity. But to make matters worse, the official Marriott points experts at MVCI (MVCD?) can't even agree on what the rules are regarding this point. After a dozon or so calls to these experts, half say one thing and the other half contradict the first half. That single point really make Marriott look bad. Who wants get involved with a major corporation that can't get it's act straight?

This new program is just wrong on so many levels.

You will change your mind and join. The new program is a slap on the face for most owners but you are among the 20% that will benefit from it. You weeks are strong traders in the destinations exchange program and your annual fees will be lower if trade for MR points or trade internally through II.

Existing Owners Not Expected to Join!
 

I own three great weeks through MVCI and called this morning to get clarity on this new "Enhancement". Basically if we want to preserve the trading power of our weeks, existing owners need to NOT opt into the points system! That's the only way there will still be inventory going into Interval so that we can trade as we always have. Otherwise, with points, it will take up to two years' worth of what we own to be able to trade into other Marriott resorts for a week! That's so crazy that the Marriott Advisor told me this morning that "Marriott doesn't expect existing owners to want to opt into this new system!"

I urge all existing owners to look long and hard at the specifics of this program. Then you, too, will see that our only option is to NOT go with the ridiculously low points they are giving us for our weeks!

Great weeks are in the eye of the beholder. Great weeks which are defined by receiving lots of points when enrolled in the Destination Club may do better by participating in the DC.

Great weeks defined as low cost off season (silver or bronze) weeks that have traded into Waiohai or Crystal Shores should not enroll. However, they should expect fewer of the up-trades because the owners of the prime resorts can gain by enrolling their weeks.

It is important for every owner to look at the specifics because there are two options- join and not join - and no one can say for anyone else what his best option is. Of course, each of us would like everyone else to make the choice that is most beneficial to me.

Art