Westin St. Francis, San Francisco [Master Thread]
#301
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Next time you rent a car and its from where you by pass the counter either due to being a member of their program or filled out all the info when booking and you booked a compact ask the employee in the lot area if you can get an upgrade and when told yes grab a full size or luxury car/suv instead. Most likely no one even at the booth will say anything and the computer will simply update the rate accordingly yet you never signed anything acknowledging that you are willing to pay more. You asked for the upgrade since say you now have 5 people to fit in the car no longer just 2 like you thought when you made the res, or the weather will now be sunny and hot and you want a convertible, you can even mention how you rent from XYZ a few dz times a year.
Ive had the opposite occur I booked a mid-size and didnt see what I thought s/b a mid-size in that row and an employee told me every car in that row is a mid-size. well after leaving leaving the lot and looking at my printout sure enough it says Compact on it so I paid more then I should have (although nowadays at times economy and compacts are higher then mid-size) CS told me to call back after I drop the car off and they will issue some compensation to more then make up for the overcharge and they did. The pt is at times things due depend on how a person asks for something or is told something. Im not saying the hotel isnt at fault they should have (and maybe even did) mention about a fee for the UP but w/o having been there things may not have been fully understood by the OP or maybe they were understood and the hotel was at fault. Im positive William will get to the bottom of what took place and proceed accordingly
Ive had the opposite occur I booked a mid-size and didnt see what I thought s/b a mid-size in that row and an employee told me every car in that row is a mid-size. well after leaving leaving the lot and looking at my printout sure enough it says Compact on it so I paid more then I should have (although nowadays at times economy and compacts are higher then mid-size) CS told me to call back after I drop the car off and they will issue some compensation to more then make up for the overcharge and they did. The pt is at times things due depend on how a person asks for something or is told something. Im not saying the hotel isnt at fault they should have (and maybe even did) mention about a fee for the UP but w/o having been there things may not have been fully understood by the OP or maybe they were understood and the hotel was at fault. Im positive William will get to the bottom of what took place and proceed accordingly
I am afraid the fact you have come up with such an irrelevent explanation to try and justify your position about sums up how weak it is! If a hotel wishes to change the rate that you have booked and agreed to via that booked and also agreed to by signing the form at checkin they need to issue new forms or write the rate on the existing form and get you to sign / initial next to it. If they do not do this they simply do not have a position!
Simple question, what is to stop a hotel telling you the upgrade is free then just charge you anyway in your world? Afterall when was the last time you were given an upgrade at checkin did you ask for written proof it was a free upgrade?
#302
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sacramento
Programs: UA Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 261
Sulley -- sorry to hear about your experience there, we have had mostly great service when we go for our annual holiday trip.
I believe that Randy Zupanski is still the GM at the Westin so will PM you his email address and hopefully he can assist
good luck
Sacfitz
I believe that Randy Zupanski is still the GM at the Westin so will PM you his email address and hopefully he can assist
good luck
Sacfitz
#303
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
lol this happens to me all the time with National and they absolutely do NOT charge for the upgrade. In any event car rental company practices are simply not relevant to the question of how hotels handle elite upgrades. Nice try on changing the subject though
Returning to the thread topic, you know very well you have to initial a new rate card in order to be charged a higher rate than the one you booked.
Returning to the thread topic, you know very well you have to initial a new rate card in order to be charged a higher rate than the one you booked.
2- I honestly had no idea that a new rate card had to be initialed. I always on the rare occasion that I wanted a room facing 1 way or higher up or lower down and if it had a higher rate I simply thought it would be done w/o my having to do anything.and its extremely rare for me to request a room that would mean paying more
I dont get why everyone is in a tissy, William said he was going to look into this, I know over all the years that William has been with FT that he does what he says and usually hits the nail smack on its head and if need be makes sure a person is made whole and that a hotel is called on the carpet and made sure not to repeat something if in fact it ended they did something wrong. Nor am I saying the OP is hiding something , leaving something out or changed things around or is trying to get their $$ back fully knowing they agreed to the extra fee. I wasnt there so I cant say what was said and by whom or the way it was said and by whom. there may have been a complete misunderstanding by 1 or both partys to what was agreed to or proposed, I have no idea I wasnt there.. I just hope that the OP can and will eventually update us with how Williams hunt went.
I dont own the hotel , work there nor ever stayed there = I have no skin in the game
#304
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
Some people just keep track of who's doing things in a way they don't like and stop going there. After a while you run out of places to avoid or you forget why you stopped going and start over. If you're lucky they may have had an ownership/management change and things have improved. If you are not willing to address the issue with the property then you aren't giving them a chance to correct. Service recovery tells me a lot about the company because I expect all of them to make a mistake at some point (sometimes pleasantly surprised when it's a long time between).
#305
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Some people just keep track of who's doing things in a way they don't like and stop going there. After a while you run out of places to avoid or you forget why you stopped going and start over. If you're lucky they may have had an ownership/management change and things have improved. If you are not willing to address the issue with the property then you aren't giving them a chance to correct. Service recovery tells me a lot about the company because I expect all of them to make a mistake at some point (sometimes pleasantly surprised when it's a long time between).
#306
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
#307
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EUG
Programs: AS MVP, AA MM, HH Diamond, MR Gold
Posts: 8,220
Even though I was shouted down before, I will reiterate:
If the OP had said "are there any complimentary upgrades available, it's a special occasion" this thread would not exist.
And I bet the Lurker comes back to say:
"As a goodwill gesture, the hotel will not charge the OP for the upgrade".
Which will tell us nothing about who said what.
I will continue to always use the word "complimentary" (it's not embarrassing, it's sensible)...and if I get upgraded to a fabulous suite, I will call the FD to ask "wow, this is great, are you SURE this is free?"
An ounce of prevention...
If the OP had said "are there any complimentary upgrades available, it's a special occasion" this thread would not exist.
And I bet the Lurker comes back to say:
"As a goodwill gesture, the hotel will not charge the OP for the upgrade".
Which will tell us nothing about who said what.
I will continue to always use the word "complimentary" (it's not embarrassing, it's sensible)...and if I get upgraded to a fabulous suite, I will call the FD to ask "wow, this is great, are you SURE this is free?"
An ounce of prevention...
Last edited by Eujeanie; Dec 27, 2017 at 6:28 pm
#308
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
Because your argument is ridiculous? You yourself admitted that you don't actually know hotel SOP so why do you act confused when others rebut your commentary?
The notion that the onus is on the guest to figure out the intent of a hospitality venue is beyond absurd. The venue has already failed hospitality at that point.
#309
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Because your argument is ridiculous? You yourself admitted that you don't actually know hotel SOP so why do you act confused when others rebut your commentary?
The notion that the onus is on the guest to figure out the intent of a hospitality venue is beyond absurd. The venue has already failed hospitality at that point.
Because your argument is ridiculous? You yourself admitted that you don't actually know hotel SOP so why do you act confused when others rebut your commentary?
The notion that the onus is on the guest to figure out the intent of a hospitality venue is beyond absurd. The venue has already failed hospitality at that point.
#310
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
well it seems you were standing there at the time and know exactly what each side said so why not fill us all in. Ive been waiting to checkin at times when the person ahead of me would say something like,I really need that upgrade isnt there anything you can do, why are you so sure something like that wasnt said by the OP, maybe not and the hotel is 100% at fault. I just dont get why everyone is blaming the hotel(maybe rightly so but still unknown) when all they have to go on is what the OP said happened, Im not saying the OP isnt telling the truth, but as Ive said already when a person says something and it appears to the other person that this person wants/ needs the better room for a special night/s then i too would assume if the party asking didnt say I really need a comped upgrade that they would be willing to pay for it. You dont see it that way, thats fine. i prefer to let someone know Id really like it and need it but Im not willing to pay for it then assume that & after all my begging pleading that well if I have to pay for it then its no longer that important to have.
It's amazing to me that you admit you don't know hotel operations, yet act surprised that others are so quick to rebut your points.
#311
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Silicon Valley
Programs: Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 1,243
...
An example maybe a rental car, where you go and pick the car you want, if you tell the employee that the cars in the row you are to chose from wont do can I grab a car from the other lane, they will say go ahead and although the contract you have has a rate that was what you booked you car for drive out in a full size and not a midsize you will find a new amount when you drop off the car...
An example maybe a rental car, where you go and pick the car you want, if you tell the employee that the cars in the row you are to chose from wont do can I grab a car from the other lane, they will say go ahead and although the contract you have has a rate that was what you booked you car for drive out in a full size and not a midsize you will find a new amount when you drop off the car...
This notion of leaving the rental lot without that contract is inconsistent with my experiences.
#312
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Silicon Valley
Programs: Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 1,243
well it seems you were standing there at the time and know exactly what each side said so why not fill us all in. Ive been waiting to checkin at times when the person ahead of me would say something like,I really need that upgrade isnt there anything you can do, why are you so sure something like that wasnt said by the OP, maybe not and the hotel is 100% at fault. I just dont get why everyone is blaming the hotel(maybe rightly so but still unknown) when all they have to go on is what the OP said happened, Im not saying the OP isnt telling the truth, but as Ive said already when a person says something and it appears to the other person that this person wants/ needs the better room for a special night/s then i too would assume if the party asking didnt say I really need a comped upgrade that they would be willing to pay for it. You dont see it that way, thats fine. i prefer to let someone know Id really like it and need it but Im not willing to pay for it then assume that & after all my begging pleading that well if I have to pay for it then its no longer that important to have.
I think that is the main point of contention. Who prevails absent proof of what actually transpired. I am very comfortable to say that the guest should generally prevail.
#313
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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And I would say also that the guest will prevail if the hotel can't present that evidence. There will certainly be multiple writings (including the initialed rate card) showing that the guest agreed to the original rate . . . if the hotel can't show an amendment to that reflecting the higher rate, it's going to lose. Though this should never get to the stage of either a chargeback or a small claims action. I would expect it to be resolved in guest's favor as soon as management is involved.
#314
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
That is not my experience. Whenever I have requested an upgrade whether complimentary or paid, a new contract is signed either electronically or on paper. I have been renting cars for nearly 20 years from Budget, Avis, Hertz and Enterprise and not once have I rented a car without a contract in hand which details the specific car type, mileage and rate. This contract is presented to me for signature either at the front desk or at the guard station.
This notion of leaving the rental lot without that contract is inconsistent with my experiences.
This notion of leaving the rental lot without that contract is inconsistent with my experiences.
I on the other hand when I was told the Nissan Versa was indeed a mid-size along with what seemed to be compacts to me asked for a printout and she went to the next booth to get it for me, as I pulled away it showed I took a Compact but booked a Mid-size. Another time when the row was empty and I was told to simply take from the next row again after asking for a printout it showed a higher rate and booked Mid-size but took a Ful- size. Ive had problems in FL as well
the other week @ Alamo LAX where I was able to simply by pass the counter had I not mentioned Irenes name the employee who OKed taking a full when I booked a mid and when i told that to the person in the booth and she looked towards Irene who gestured with her hand that she OKed it Im sure otherwise I would have been charged.