Titanium - why do I bother?
 

I’m at the end of my rope lately with Marriott. Why do I go out of my way to stay loyal? I get treated like a y other guest. No upgrades are ever available, even when I can see on the app that there are rooms available. No recognition at all when I check in. Service is the bare minimum. On this road trip Ive stayed at Best Westerns and a few boutique hotels with no expectations and received a much warmer welcome than I ever seem to any longer with Marriott.

am I the only one? Taking this too seriously?

You've taken the red pill. Marriott continues to decline in terms of customer service and benefits but they are financially well. Book your stays at hotels that treat you right and be a free agent!

"Titanium" Customer Service .... not
 

On that same note, as a Titanium, I just called the "Titanium" customer service line and waited 45 minutes on hold before giving up and hanging up. While on hold, I dreamed of those days with SPG platinum when the platinum phone line not only gave you an agent without a wait, but you did not even have to navigate a voice activated menu! With Marriott, I have to tell the annoying system three times "representative" before finally transferring me to the queue, and then 45 minutes later no sign of anyone answering the phone. The automated system told me that the wait was "at least 10 minutes", which while factually correct, was clearly not indicative.

Marriott, if you are listening .... when a Titanium member calls, you can assume that the issue is not a question that can easily be solved by going online ... it should be safe to assume that someone who has stayed 75+ nights in your properties per year knows you have a website, knows the basic things, and has a real issue for a representative to solve.

For my money I don’t look beyond Hyatt.com right now unless I’m really desperate. I’m lifetime titanium with Marriott but the recognition just isn’t there. The treatment I get as a Globalist with Hyatt is a different ballpark, I really have no interest in Marriott at the moment.

Agreed. Just spent almost a month at a Marriott - everyone very kind, but not a ton of perks.
750/nt points for closed lounge is nice - but doordash in no sub for a restaurant on property. They decided to open it 7 days the day we checked out.
Happy for lifetime Titanium - but even with the lower spend threshold, no incentive to go to Ambassador.
Wish the local Hyatt had acted better so I could have given them the business instead - full breakfast, resto full service and can book an actual suite when I need one.
Not too far from lifetime Globalist by pre-pandemic standards. No idea when that'll happen now...

Status is worthwhile, if you are travelling in Asia. Upgrades and great service almost everywhere. Often in Europe I get upgraded, but it is best to keep my expectations low. In the US, almost never with Bonvoy.

Just stay at the hotels you actually want to stay in and don’t let the tail wag the dog. Status plays zero role for me when I’m choosing where to stay.

What amazes me is how frustrated so many lifetime Titaniums and annual Titaniums are frustrated w Marriott yet their #s are OK. Does this mean Marriott's spread and corporate contracts mean loyalty and satisfaction doesn't matter and they'll keep making money or does it mean Marriott will get smacked once covid is over?

I'm asking as a potential investor. I'm bullish on hospitality but perhaps it's time to think about a short on stock... Or maybe go long as customer satisfaction can't get worse

Because Marriott has figured out that a very high % of Marriott elites will continue to stay with them, regardless of how poorly they are treated. Because ultimately these elites fear being treated even worse elsewhere...

For any major hotel chain, "loyalty" is supposed to be a lower cost method of attracting guests. (vs. OTA commissions) So when the cost of servicing that loyalty can be reduced, corporate will benefit until it reaches the inflection point where guests do indeed switch their loyalty elsewhere. As long as the only real competition is Hilton, Marriott will feel safe to cut and cut...

Do not confuse the opinions of FlyerTalk members with the opinions of travelers, in general. This is a niche community.

Also, the main customer of a hotel group (Marriott International, Hilton Worldwide, Intercontinental Hotel Group) are the hotel owners, not the individual guests. A hotel group can be wildly successful even if the majority of the guests staying at their branded hotels aren't particularly happy. That fact is true because hotel groups are in the franchise business. (While most do offer management services, that's a side business they have so that they can be a "one stop" shop for hotel owners.)

If you insist on using individual guest satisfaction to guide your investments, you need to be buying stock in the companies that operate hotels. These are smaller companies that often operate multiple brands across multiple hotel groups.

Yes, you probably are taking this too seriously. Like LondonElite posted don't wag the dog. I didn't get to be an LT by chasing status, I got here by staying with the chain that has properties where you want them, amenities that you want and treats you best. My last stay at a full Hilton wasn't any better than a Motel6 but I won't let that color my future stays with them.

That's my point. We have also interviewed hundreds of properties owners. As an investor, you need to see if there is a disconnect between property owner and end guest satisfaction and how to invest on that. Short. Go long. Or buy out another chain like Hyatt that is too nice to guests and squeeze.

You can't just base off what property owners think esp as they often tied up in decades long contracts

I agree. The late Arne Sorenson claimed that Bonvoy loses Marriott money. Starwood’s SPG/upscale + luxury model was obviously unsustainable. I am curious to see how Hyatt navigates the industry in the long run. My hunch? Many people chasing lifetime Globalist (including that guy that said you should just purchase LTG for $200K cash) are setting themselves up for disappointment.

1 point of disagreement: I think franchisees are impacted far more by a) underlying asset prices b) fundamental macroeconomic trends than they are by franchise-level guest satisfaction. Obviously, it also depends on the specific market the franchisees are positioning themselves in (ie I find it hard to believe the owners of STR Atlanta are driven by cash flow in their ownership of that property).

This is excellent advice, and how I try approach things myself now. But I admit I used to worry about keeping my status way more than I should have.

I honestly dont think this issue to just confirmed to Marriott, but to all the major hotel chains...
the sense of our loyalty to either hotels, airlines, car rentals etc is often met with lack of loyalty of the companies that we are loyal too.

I become a Marriott Titanium and a Hyatt Globalist in the upcoming months. I'll see what's up next year when I start booking even more.

As a MB LTT (former SPG LTP) and Hyatt Globalist, I always book Hyatt if at all possible, then Marriott as backup. There are many locations where the nearest Hyatt is the next city or country, so not an option. My expectations for Marriott are much lower.

If SPG had the better business model from an investor perspective, they would have bought out Mariott, not the other way around.

In fact, if I was an investor and was told our hotels are so popular that we don't have to give away free upgrades to attract people, chances are, business is good. What business thrives based off of freebies?

I would also call into question the number of Titanium guests that are truly frustrated with Marriott to the point of taking their business elsewhere. If I had to bet, I would say that many people, including many Titaniums, are willing to accept poorer service, recognition, and benefits as a consequence of the pandemic and subsequent recovery period that they feel are going to be found across the entirety of the hospitality and service industries. Personally, as a Titanium and a Globalist, I have found that Hyatt properties seem to be recovering towards pre-pandemic norms a bit faster than many Marriott properties (although, of course, this is still very property-dependent as I have had some really positive Marriott stays, too), but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't worried that Hyatt will eventually go into the same financial pitfalls that SPG did back in the day (if they haven't already).

If you think Titanium is disappointing for the service levels and benefits you get in return for your time/money, you're in for a surprise when you get to Ambassador Elite status.

khabah

This is all interesting to read. I'm two stays away from Titanium and have a pile of points I'll burn up next year on a luxury stay and then I won't worry about it. I've only had two actual hotel stays so far this year. I'm also Globalist and will enjoy burning some Hyatt points as well.

Thankfully, I don't have to travel a lot for business anymore.

Hyatt's financial position doesn't matter IMO. World of Hyatt will be gutted eventually (the same as all). The biggest driver of their top line is M&F vs. O&L properties. As this portfolio of franchised hotels grow, so too will the need for WoH's differentiation diminish as will Hyatt's ability to control rogue franchisees. We should enjoy things while we can and accept things when they go.

This is my reason to bother!!
 

I”m not convinced that Starwood’s model was unsustainable. I think that they had they been private for example, they would have been a lovely chain and been able to stay that way. As far as I know (and maybe I’m wrong), if the merger had not gone through with Marriott, Aanbang, Hyatt, etc. no one was saying Starwood should be liquidated.

I actually think that Starwood could have existed even as a smaller hotel chain if they wanted - they could have sold off Sheraton and Four Points too if they wanted and had a small network of hotels - St. Regis, Luxury Collection, Westin, Element, W, aLoft, and called it a day.

I think the bigger mistake SPG made right before the merger was the huge expansion of hotel brands very quickly - and those that had limited service benefits - the so-called “tribute portfolio”, the Design Hotels thing, and others.

The asset light model made/makes a lot of sense in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. I’m curious how people will feel about that in the next recession/economic activity. These hotel chains may decide that owning the assets is more to their advantage the next go around.

Starwood was missing EPS and had mounting debt. Chasing after highly profitable limited service hotels makes sense (we've seen Hyatt do this too). No flags deliver higher average returns than brands like Hampton Inn and Residence inn do. The super-majority of Starwood stays were completed by SPG. Bonvoy has been an unprofitable venture for Marriott. Imagine what SPG was like for Starwood.

The asset-light model makes sense for these chains because it allows them to expand their portfolios quickly and massively without needing to seek leverage for / underwrite the risk for each new hotel opening. I find it very unlikely we ever shift to world where hotel chains once again begin buying assets heavily. Even Hyatt's strategy is entirely around F&M over O&L.

Spoiler Alert: Globalist is better. Better than Ambassador. By a lot.

That's good to know. I'll have to keep Hyatt on the top of my list then.

Hmmm I would disagree with that. As an Ambassador myself I always ask and get the resort fees waived when I stay at a property that has them. I always have my ambassador send a pre-arrival email to the hotel alerting them to my requests like extra feather pillows and to deactivate the motion sensor in the room. I'm currently at an Element and was upgraded to a 1 bedroom suite(only 4 in the hotel). I'm heading to another Marriott at the end of the month and the GM has already upgraded me to the Presidential Suite.

So I think Marriott treats me very well as an Ambassador member.

- As another lifetime titanium I do agree. I am writing this from a Hyatt.

You have an exceptional Ambassador.

How do you like the Element? Many are new around the world. I booked a 26 night stay at one. Just a regular studio with kitchen.

I'm only a Platinum, I've been reasonably happy with Marriott, I usually stay at Hyatt or Hilton, but for a mid range status I can't complain

I like it for the most part. Suite is nice and spacious and the staff are very friendly.

My Ambassador definitely helps but I have found that I get more "perks" when I reach out to the hotels myself. Then she sends a pre-arrival email and will contact the hotel if needed. Between the 2 of us it works very well.

Sorry, I'm not buying. Personal Ambassadors were abolished last year, per David Flueck's March 26, 2020 email ("I know many of you will miss the one-on-one relationship you may have built or were looking forward to building with your Ambassador this year.").

M&F = Managed & Franchised
F&M = Franchised & Managed
​​​​​​O&L = Owned & Leased

You're not buying? Well not that it's any of your business but I was given an exception by my Ambassador's manager to continue to use her 1 on 1 even during the past year. We work well together and she asked her manager last April if she could continue to be my personal Ambassador even though Marriott was doing away with that once the pandemic hit. And her manager approved it and it's noted on my account. I still call her direct number, leave her messages, we speak semi-regularly especially before an upcoming trip when she sends the pre-arrival email to the hotel.

And who are you to question me anyways? I post on here my experiences, sorry you feel the need to question it. And you know the sad part of your response to me? You got 6 likes calling me a liar. Ridiculous.

I wonder how many people with ambassador status have called Marriott since this post demanding that they have a personal ambassador reinstated….

I could see one-off high value clients still having a Marriott sanctioned direct relationship with an Ambassador given that Cobalt still exists and functions this way with a direct contact, but I agree the policy is clearly personal ambassadors are no more. Personally, I have not seen any evidence of dedicated personal ambassador arrangements.

I still know the extension and contact for my Ambassador, but they aren’t my dedicated Ambassador anymore.

What the truth is only the OP will know. 🙌🏻

Not enough to have Marriott even consider a change to the policy would be my guess. I don’t believe Marriott truly values the AE tier, perhaps a limited set of high spend guests, otherwise Marriott has demonstrated customer service and loyalty isn’t a priority.

The personal ambassador has been abolishef but that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions - maybe the ambassador and the client continue to cooperate specifically even if not officially (or semi - sanctioned) or of course some people spend a ton and thus earn special consideration

In my experience in this world there are always exceptions and it would be exceptional if there weren't

I often get specialty suites at Marriott and Hyatt even if I am paying on points. Why? I have no idea

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