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Originally Posted by rny321
(Post 31342219)
No problem with tip pooling, but I believe a mandatory 18% service charge (which is less than I normally leave), regardless of how it is distributed should be enough. What I object to is a waiter telling a customer that she doesn't receive any of the service charge in an effort to get an additional 15 to 25% tip.
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Originally Posted by emma dog
(Post 31342056)
I agree.
How would you define someone who is working for tips? These sorts of posts are nothing more than an attempt to rules lawyer a justification for not tipping. But the thing is, you don't need to justify it. Just don't tip if you don't want to. |
Originally Posted by pinniped
(Post 31341912)
Paradoxically, tipping people who are not traditionally tipped could ultimately punish them, at least in some parts of the U.S.
The US Department of Labor provides very little protection from a business owner legally declaring that a given employee is working for tips. It's a laughably low bar - something like $30 per month in tips. As soon as the employer can show you're receiving that, they can cut your wages to $2.13/hr and essentially use your first $5.12/hr in tips to "true you up" to minimum wage. On the surface, you may say "well, worst case they're still in the same financial position." Maybe...but two things then happen: the employer starts measuring tip levels and has a financial incentive to retain the better-tipped people. And second, it accelerates the injection of the tipping scourge into places where it doesn't exist today, pissing off at least some subset of the customers. You say you see tipping in lounges. I don't. Either way, I think we'd both agree that they're not raking in the tips. They're not restaurant waiters pulling 18-20% of their total handle. They're maybe pulling a buck or two when they pour a glass of wine, and $0 from the guy who gets his own cheese & crackers and a Coke from the fridge. They're in that terrible place where they'll easily exceed the Labor Department minimum for a tipped employee, but probably never eclipse $5/hr. They're financially in the same place they were before, but with additional pressure to get customers to tip - possibly to save their jobs. Some states are doing away from the tipped minimum wage, but I'm sure the hospitality industry will fight that wherever they can. None of this is likely to happen to a lounge attendant who accepts a random one-off tip from bringing someone custom eggs. But in hotels where they're prodding guests to room-charge tips, there's no doubt they can and will use that data against their employees if they can. This is another case where you can just quietly not tip and keep it to yourself rather than make up a fancy-sounding reason for not tipping. Literally nobody is going to think less of you for not tipping in a lounge. Even super-liberal tippers know that this is one of those situations where it's not customary (other than maybe at breakfast, depending on how much of a mess one makes). |
Originally Posted by rny321
(Post 31342062)
Although this is off topic, one thing that annoys me is when a restaurant has an 18% service charge and the waiter insists that the tip doesn't go to him or her.
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68
(Post 31342400)
These sorts of posts are nothing more than an attempt to rules lawyer a justification for not tipping.
But the thing is, you don't need to justify it. Just don't tip if you don't want to.
Originally Posted by emma dog
(Post 31341978)
There's social pressure to tip, so putting me in a position to put $0 makes me feel like jerk. Or I can just tip a couple of dollars but then feel angry about the "hidden" tax. So either way there's nothing about this situation that makes me, as a customer, feel good about the experience and makes me not want to frequent that business.
Originally Posted by rny321
(Post 31342048)
There are instances where waiters have posted receipts online that make it appear that guests were being cheap
I'm asking for your perspective because I genuinely would love to understand who you think the people are who are working for tips and to see how your point of view differs from mine. |
I already answered this, literally nobody is going to report you to the tipping police if you stiff your lounge attendants.
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Originally Posted by emma dog
(Post 31342869)
I'm asking for your perspective because I genuinely would love to understand who you think the people are who are working for tips and to see how your point of view differs from mine.
Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68
(Post 31343150)
I already answered this, literally nobody is going to report you to the tipping police if you stiff your lounge attendants.
I think your position that "you should tip whoever you want to tip" is clear, but you've made numerous comments about people who work for tips or deserve tips but it would be helpful for you to define that group more specifically than "anyone you feel like tipping". |
Why would that be helpful? What would you do differently with that information?
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Originally Posted by emma dog
(Post 31342869)
Tipping is a social contract and I want to fulfill my duty to tip those who should be tipped. I'm not trying to "rules lawyer" anything; I want to ensure that I do the "right thing." Please see the above quoted posts to explain why I feel the way I do.
I'm asking for your perspective because I genuinely would love to understand who you think the people are who are working for tips and to see how your point of view differs from mine. If you would have felt a tip was appropriate without a tip line on a receipt, then I believe you should do so. If someone who has never waited on you asks that you sign a receipt, I don't see a reason to tip. As I said before, one can simply write cash tip on the receipt and leave what you want later. |
Not only is it not necessary to not tip at uncustomary locations like in the lounges, I would prefer that people DIDN'T. I've had a few instances where the lounge staff largely ignored the rest of the guests and the emptied-out food trays and the piling dirty plates because the sole lounge staff was more or less "butler-ing" the table who tipped her $20 (it could even have been more, but I did see $20 being handed). Unlike waiters in restaurants, I believe the lounge staff is hired to manage the lounge operations (dirty plates, refill empty food trays etc) and not host specific guests who tip more. In a bar down the road? yes. In an executive lounge for elite guests? no.
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