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Originally Posted by Newman
(Post 30550461)
And many of us appreciate the good holiday wishes coming from the highest levels.
Sadly, some here won't stop their Marriott-bashing until they get Arne Sorenson's head on a silver platter. It's really kinda sad they sink so low as to attack a holiday greeting. I personally consider it seasonal spam. And this isn't criticism directed just at Marriott -- they all feel the need to send these useless messages. I simply corrected bhrubin's claim that Marriott apologized for mistakes made by them. I didn't attack any holiday greeting. Enough, though. Happy holidays and may your next Marriott stay be a satisfying experience. |
I think there's a general feeling on this board that Marriott's integration issues are huge and affect millions of people (the SPG data breach did affect millions, but it's unrelated to the IT integration). However, for many people, including many here, the integration has gone just fine and we've experienced no problems.
So we're left with two sides: One which feels that the mistakes Marriott has made, and the resulting issues individuals have experienced, are so great that they are un-recoverable, and the CEO should be fired. And another that feels issues should be fixed, but that they only impact a small yet vocal group of customers. The second group can read an end of the year, happy holidays email for exactly what it is, and not have to analyze every word that was or wasn't included. It's certainly rational to believe that Marriott should do something to make it up to affected customers. But it's not rational to think that a standard, planned, annual customer email (which this year acknowledged the integration issues) should be the cure. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 30550498)
No; I meant that Marriott has fallen short of reasonable customer expectations with regard to the integration-related program changes; and that Marriott hasn’t shown much intent and capability to make things right very quickly and easily for the negatively-impacted customers. And so of course such Marriott customers shouldn’t ever be satisfied unless and until Marriott does right by the many wronged customers. Arguments by analogy don’t generally make for a logically sound and valid argument, so I’ll take that kitchen renovation story and chalk it up to being just friendly banter. become a Marriott-bashing haven and anyone commenting that doesn’t adhere to that narrative is all but trashed. Some people have had bad, even maybe terrible, experiences with the program merger, especially on the IT and CS ends. Others didn’t. I don’t have to feel miserable — and I won’t — just because someone else had a poor experience when in reality I for one am very happy with the outcome of the merger and the way things turned out — and I come from the SPG side and had never stayed in a Marriott property before 2017. This year I earned points like I never had the chance of earning with SPG and have been burning them in amazing properties for ridiculously low rates—sometimes as low as half what SPG charged. BRG success and reply rates are in a whole different league than what was the case with SPG. And on top of that in a single year I received more SNAs and free night certs than I would ever have received with SPG, got fabulous upgrades (after Aug 18); was made (or will soon be) a lifetime PPE or whatever new metal or alloy they will pick for that tier so that I will no longer have to worry about membership thresholds; and I now have a pretty decent (though not exceptional) ambassador. In my own experience, 2018 was terrific year for my membership in Marriott’s loyalty program and really hope they can keep it up for 2019. |
Originally Posted by JBord
(Post 30550559)
But it's not rational to think that a standard, planned, annual customer email (which this year acknowledged the integration issues) should be the cure.
I'm also in the camp to think that it isn't rational that integration issues and more likely serious integration wouldn't exist. I thought the email - though I haven't received it yet, was a nice gesture. Emotional connections do tend wreak havoc with rational thought. |
Originally Posted by craigthemif
(Post 30549233)
Another missed opportunity to do more than just offer a minimal apology...
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 30550210)
Marriott has fallen short of reasonable customer expectations with regard to the integration-related program changes and Marriott. hasn’t shown much intent and capability to make things right very quickly and easily for the negatively-impacted customers, so of course such Marriott customers shouldn’t ever be satisfied unless and until Marriott does right by the many wronged customers. I'm still waiting for the email apologizing for Marriott's backtracking on the previously touted "no blackout date" benefit ;) |
I'm still waiting for the Marriott mass email with the following subject line:
Bonvoy!!!!! |
Two things stand out to me.
First:
Originally Posted by stimpy
(Post 30549181)
You’ll be hearing more from us next year when we introduce our new brand name, representing the most rewarding loyalty program in hospitality.
Originally Posted by stimpy
(Post 30549181)
Best,
David Flueck SVP, Global Loyalty |
Originally Posted by JBord
(Post 30549567)
Perhaps for anyone who is above Silver level, Arne should knock on your door during the holidays and hand-deliver a nice gift basket as a personal apology, even for those customers who've had an extremely smooth integration. Of course, the longest thread of 2019 would then be how Marriott was so rude to interrupt your holiday celebration.
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Originally Posted by CCIE_Flyer
(Post 30549595)
Some people will be glad to see a public acknowledgement along with an apology. Others will wish that had come bundled with some free points or a certificate of some sort as a means of compensation for the frustration (extreme in some cases) they've endured.
I personally just think it was an opportunity missed - a corporate message such as this should've at least included something tangible, such as firming up a hard date for the new program or something along that line. I would've liked to have finished reading that e-mail knowing something I didn't know going in. But let's at least recognize that he didn't dismiss anyone as "fringe," he didn't claim that all systems are now a go in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, and he did in fact apologize - something that many around here have called for repeatedly. |
Originally Posted by kaizen7
(Post 30549621)
I wont be surprised if the introduction of the new program delayed from the January 2019 target
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Originally Posted by PointWeasel
(Post 30550032)
Two lumps of coal for the 'new and improved' Marriott this holiday season.
Anyone interested in splitting the costs? Private message me. |
Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 30550893)
Anyone interested in splitting the costs?
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Originally Posted by 360guy
(Post 30550080)
It would be nice if they would acknowledge your status.
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Originally Posted by closecover
(Post 30550813)
I'm still waiting for the Marriott mass email with the following subject line:
Bonvoy!!!!! |
Originally Posted by CLEguy
(Post 30549672)
I didn't get an email.
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 30549823)
Perhaps Hilton and others haven’t been running a lot of promos and status challenges because (1) Marriott’s integration isn’t the worst loyalty program merger ever, after all, and/or (2) anyone can get Hlilton’s highest tier Diamond status with a mere credit card, so why bother with a challenge? On (2): Just want to mention that for us located outside the US any such pathway to Hilton Diamond (or the 20 nights to Hyatt Glob) is not possibility so for us challenges still have a meaning... I would hope that MAR continues their property expansion outside NA by also amending the loyalty program to also cater to non-US residents. I count going from points tenor to year tenor in the LT program such a step ... |
Originally Posted by X-ON
(Post 30551934)
On (2): Just want to mention that for us located outside the US any such pathway to Hilton Diamond (or the 20 nights to Hyatt Glob) is not possibility so for us challenges still have a meaning... I would hope that MAR continues their property expansion outside NA by also amending the loyalty program to also cater to non-US residents. I count going from points tenor to year tenor in the LT program such a step ...
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Originally Posted by CCIE_Flyer
(Post 30549595)
Others will wish that had come bundled with some free points or a certificate of some sort as a means of compensation for the frustration (extreme in some cases) they've endured.
I quickly learned that there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all compensation plan. Different people react very differently to the same offer of compensation. One person would view a discounted/comped room very favorably. Someone else would that offer as offensive because she or he views it as an attempt to ignore the problem. Those people want problems fixed and they care little about tokens. Had Marriott offered points to everyone, it's clear that you'd be happy. Other people would undoubtedly see the offer as offensive because the underlying problems haven't been fixed. Finally, don't forget that while many people have had major challenges, many others have not had any issues. Giving points to everyone to compensate for problems that only a portion of members experienced is not something any company would do. Respectfully, I think your expectations are not in line with that reality. (Note: I'm not saying you personally aren't due compensation. I'm merely saying a blanket gesture to everyone isn't the way to address the problems some members have had.) |
Originally Posted by stimpy
(Post 30551946)
While I agree that Marriott and all chains could and should do a better job of catering to people in all countries, I will note that Amex Centurion members in every country they issue in get Hilton Diamond comped each year. So it's not impossible!
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 30550877)
This email would have been much better if they had ate the cost of sending a printed letter via the postal service to each customer or at least used software to customize the email and thank you for your given status.
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Originally Posted by X-ON
(Post 30551965)
I stand corrected, however spending 250K-450K USD a year (vs. paying 450 USD) in annual fee) as substitute of a Hilton Diamond challenge ... it is not impossible but hardly a substitute
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Originally Posted by christianj
(Post 30549231)
...not sure why they would waste our time sending out an email like that without addressing the elephant in the room when it comes to program integration.
Originally Posted by JBord
(Post 30549567)
I'll agree with others that the email said very little. But it certainly shows how Marriott is in a no-win situation.
Originally Posted by CCIE_Flyer
(Post 30549595)
...a corporate message such as this should've at least included something tangible...
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 30550119)
Renaming the loyalty program is an indicator of further devaluations to come — and worse and more frequent devaluations than before, if I had to make a guess.
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 30550877)
This email would have been much better if they had ate the cost of sending a printed letter via the postal service to each customer or at least used software to customize the email and thank you for your given status.
I suppose on the customization point, there's probably a 50/50 split. Some people feel their status needs to be acknowledged at every opportunity. I don't personally feel the need to have my status stated back to me in a letter, or at check-in, or really in most situations. In fact, in situations where I'm with a coworker, I actually prefer they wouldn't -- It's just personal preference though. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 30552508)
Lawyers wrote this. They cannot admit fault. They cannot crack open any liability risk. They cannot allude to / promise anything tangible. They can barely say anything. That is how business communications work today.
Of course -- all programs of this nature undergo predictable, inevitable devaluation owing to inflationary pressure and dumb money-supply management (e.g. too many points in the "economy."). This is a universal force. I'm surprised at the howls of pain on FT whenever another program is diluted. It's as natural and expected as the sunrise. But the issue here is also that not only is Marriott hell-bent to rush into devaluing the program, they are also willing to make it worse and more painful for customers than it needed to be by rushing the so-called program integration. There is no good reason for Marriott loyalty customers to keep a stiff upper lip in the face of being punched by Marriott just because some hits were to be expected by some substantial minority of the program customers. The lawyer review of the communication seems to have not stopped Marriott from at least acknowledging that some of its customers have been annoyed by the program integration hassles — probably because most of those customers most deeply messed up by Marriott in this regard are those with some of the most business given to Marriott hotels as by measure of points accumulation history of such members’ accounts. |
Originally Posted by Newman
(Post 30550461)
Sadly, some here won't stop their Marriott-bashing until they get Arne Sorenson's head on a silver platter. It's really kinda sad they sink so low as to attack a holiday greeting.
Newman |
Originally Posted by JBord
(Post 30552546)
I'm not sure I follow. Paying for postage would have made it "much better"? Is that because you or some others would have felt better about the print and postage serving as some type of penalty for Marriott? A printed letter is just waste that ends up in my garbage can, and I think most people don't feel a need to punish Marriott (nor do they really care about the overall issues being fixed), they just want their own issues fixed because they are annoying to them. I'm not particularly "green" but I don't see a point in wasting paper when an email will do.
I suppose on the customization point, there's probably a 50/50 split. Some people feel their status needs to be acknowledged at every opportunity. I don't personally feel the need to have my status stated back to me in a letter, or at check-in, or really in most situations. In fact, in situations where I'm with a coworker, I actually prefer they wouldn't -- It's just personal preference though. There are ways you can customize the email through the bulk-mail lists that would have made this look more personalized and less like a copy-and-paste form letter. My guess is this letter was reviewed by 20 different people from investor relations, public relations and media affairs, the loyalty division, general counsel, and likely the chief executive officer before it was sent. It probably took a week to draft. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 30552010)
That would be a waste of paper |
Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 30552792)
Marriott sends out at least one mailer every year to all of its program members so it's not like they don't do this. To me, the email correspondence would have came off as more genuine and sincere had it been sent even if it was an auto-pen signature.
There's another perspective too, that many customers would probably be angry if they received paper. There would likely be a thread on here complaining about how they wasted paper rather than sending an email. There's a thread somewhere about people who are upset about the plastic shampoo bottles in rooms, because they aren't eco-friendly. To be clear, that's not my issue -- I just don't see the point of paper here unless it's coming in an envelope with some type of redeemable certificate (and even that could just be placed in my online account). |
Originally Posted by writerguyfl
(Post 30551950)
Had Marriott offered points to everyone, it's clear that you'd be happy. Other people would undoubtedly see the offer as offensive because the underlying problems haven't been fixed.
Finally, don't forget that while many people have had major challenges, many others have not had any issues. Giving points to everyone to compensate for problems that only a portion of members experienced is not something any company would do. Respectfully, I think your expectations are not in line with that reality. (Note: I'm not saying you personally aren't due compensation. I'm merely saying a blanket gesture to everyone isn't the way to address the problems some members have had.) |
I read and wondered in this day of useless email, spam and such not what was the purpose?
Probably on a check list of informing the consumer, just like the security breach email too. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, probably won't come in an email but read it on some other site. |
Originally Posted by Cledaybuck
(Post 30552609)
I believe the platter should be platinum. Silver isn't worth anything.
I receive the email as well. While I understand some people who badly affected with the issue will not be satisfied, but I can guess majority of members are have no or very minor issues with MR Yes, the points and nights credis was slowly post on August-October. but on my November stays everything post as usual. |
Originally Posted by kaizen7
(Post 30553304)
Yes, the points and nights credis was slowly post on August-October. but on my November stays everything post as usual. |
Originally Posted by Newman
(Post 30550461)
I believe that you mean that Marriott has exceeded unreasonable customer expectations.
1) Have a website which works: It's 2018, not 1998. Is it too much to ask for a website which actually works? I'm talking the basics -- to search for hotel rooms, BY PRICE, and be able to successfully book a room! Just last week I tried, twice, to book rooms for this week using Marriott.com and both times, the website crashed and became unavailable. I moved those stays over to Hilton where I was able to successfully do this task in under 2 minutes for both bookings. Let's remember that the original MARSHA was created in ~1972, so Marriott's had 46 years to play with technology. Marriott.com's woes began a bit over a year ago when they re-platformed their operations from MARSHA to "The Cloud!" Rather than fix the underlying issues, marketing got their way and the website's look changed multiple times in the past year. Then add in a merger on top of that mess. Down the road in business schools, do expect to see chapters on how NOT to perform a corporate merger, especially systems merger, to discuss this case. 2) Have call centers which work: Call center wait times skyrocketed on the Marriott side well before the August cutover. Further, specialist teams (elite agents, Marriott Rewards agents, reservations agents) were all stripped of their titles/positions and thrown into a general phone queue. A jack of all trades is a master of none. As a result, phone wait times grew to unreasonable (waiting 45-90 minutes on hold) wait times as representatives were now working with things they were unfamiliar with. I don't know what Marriott has done with staffing their call centers, but the overall gist on FlyerTalk seems to indicate the current CSRs aren't well-trained, nor are they always pleasant. I came to this party as a Marriott loyalist and from MY perspective, the call centers are well below the standards we had about a year ago. There was some hope that the dust would settle after the systems integration happened in August, BUT just like the broken website, calling the Marriott 800# feels more like calling 1-800-COMCAST. 3) Communicate to stakeholders: It's not just us chickens getting the shaft here -- the hoteliers are also being treated about the same. Like I posted in another thread earlier in the year, it's like Marriott hired the Iraqi Information Minister to do their PR. "Nothing wrong here! Just some noise on the fringe. Everything's fine! Ignore that when you go to Marriott.com, the website doesn't load. Or that hotels can't access the reservation systems. Everything's fine!!!!" I think a lot of us (including the hoteliers) would feel more confident in Marriott's abilities if they came out early and said, "Obviously, things aren't going as well as expected. Please be patient, we are working on it. We've hired outside consultants and teams to help us expedite the fixes" Instead, we're given a 29 Ways to Fail promotion, which couldn't even work because of how bad their IT systems are. This could have been (mostly) prevented. For the IT systems merger, someone, somewhere should have been screaming "STOP!" and management should have listened. It had to be obvious to someone in the organization that the new Marriott.com platform wasn't ready for prime time. Until it was ready, it made no sense to continue pushing the integration forward. For items 2 & 3, look how Kroll has handled the Starwood IT security breach compared to how Marriott has handled their merger. First, they immediately come out and say that they screwed up. They then gave a relatively detailed account of what happened. Last, they say what they're doing to fix it and what steps customers can take. They even established a special call center with agents dedicated & trained specifically on how to handle this issue. Everything on this, so far, has been by the book on how you should handle a situation like this. As I type this, I'm working on a merger in the transportation sector. Due to the intricacies of the case, we are being forced to merge much faster than we wanted to. BUT, we've wisely decided to leave things status quo as much as possible. Other than payroll & insurances which are being combined due to logistical factors, everything else is being left separate. Both sides of the merger are having regular meetings and trying to take the best of both companies to be the plans for the future. |
It's clear that someone at Marriott International needs to do a proverbial seppuku over this.
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As PP, I never got the email. Not that it matters. |
Originally Posted by KRSW
(Post 30555780)
3) Communicate to stakeholders:
It's not just us chickens getting the shaft here -- the hoteliers are also being treated about the same. Like I posted in another thread earlier in the year, it's like Marriott hired the Iraqi Information Minister to do their PR. "Nothing wrong here! Just some noise on the fringe. Everything's fine! Ignore that when you go to Marriott.com, the website doesn't load. Or that hotels can't access the reservation systems. Everything's fine!!!!" I think a lot of us (including the hoteliers) would feel more confident in Marriott's abilities if they came out early and said, "Obviously, things aren't going as well as expected. Please be patient, we are working on it. We've hired outside consultants and teams to help us expedite the fixes" Instead, we're given a 29 Ways to Fail promotion, which couldn't even work because of how bad their IT systems are. I get the concerns being posted here, but I think from an objective perspective, most people are like me -- my account was straight by Labor Day -- and I have well over 2000 lifetime nights, my stays keep posting (even a day quicker than before 8/18) in an accurate way (well -- I did have one Sheraton that I had to email in to get it credited), and I keep making reservations through the website even though it seems to have been updated by people who don't actually book hotel reservations and has reliability issues. My main concern is the hotel experience -- the operators don't seem to be aware of everything and in some cases, seem to have adopted some cost cutting measures and blamed it on the program. Plus, there continues to be confusion on elite levels at the properties. I'm hoping Bonvoy will fix that. |
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