Jan 3, 2019, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: randomperson24
NEW TO MS? It's suggested that new arrivals should do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here (2019-2024)
Nov 19, 2019, 9:52 pm
#256
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, Starwood Preferred Guest, Marriott Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 255
Do the meta fivebacks work the same as regular metas for WM MO/Serve liquidation? I would have assumed they do but my local OD/OM was wiped out of regular metas and had a bunch fivebacks left so wondering if they were left behind for a reason
Also is the default PIN still the last 4 digits?
Also is the default PIN still the last 4 digits?
Last edited by deker0; Dec 3, 2019 at 9:43 pm
Nov 20, 2019, 2:06 am
#257
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 463
Do the meta fivebacks work the same as regular metas for WM MO/Serve liquidation? I would have assumed they do but my local OD/OM was wiped out of regular metas and had a bunch fivebacks left so wondering if they were left behind for a reason
Also is the default PIN still the last 4 digits?
Also is the default PIN still the last 4 digits?
Nov 20, 2019, 10:17 am
#258
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, Starwood Preferred Guest, Marriott Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 255
Nov 20, 2019, 2:01 pm
#259
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, Starwood Preferred Guest, Marriott Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 255
Do the meta fivebacks work the same as regular metas for WM MO/Serve liquidation? I would have assumed they do but my local OD/OM was wiped out of regular metas and had a bunch fivebacks left so wondering if they were left behind for a reason
Also is the default PIN still the last 4 digits?
Also is the default PIN still the last 4 digits?
Nov 20, 2019, 3:20 pm
#260
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 4
At least I'll know for next time! Also to follow up on my own question about the fiveback pins they work the same way as regular metas (last 4 digits)
Nov 20, 2019, 3:44 pm
#261
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, Starwood Preferred Guest, Marriott Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 255
Dec 3, 2019, 2:01 pm
#262
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
I bought my first MO today 
, but boy, what a nerve racking experience.
Stopped by 3 local WMs...
1) I screwed up and didn't read the post thoroughly on how to do the debit switch for MCs. The CSR was way too patient with me, and let metry fail over and over again. I eventually gave up and thanked her for trying.
2) I read and re-read these threads, and thought I understood the process. I lined up and got a nice looking CSR, but she wasn't authorized to sell MOs. She directed me to another, grumpy looking CSR. I asked to swipe before she inputted the amount so I could ensure it went through as debit, but she was having none of it. She said no, then after the transaction failed to go through twice, she asked to see what card I was using. She didn't really wait for me to hand her the card, and more so took it from me. When she saw it was a gebit, she immediately shut me down. "No gift cards. Cash or debit".
3) I decided to push my luck and tried a final WM. I never knew there were so many around me! It went pretty smoothly. I was in and out in under 10 minutes.
This didn't go the way I envisioned at all, but at least I have a better understanding of the WMs in my area. Now to deposit this MO.
, but boy, what a nerve racking experience.Stopped by 3 local WMs...
1) I screwed up and didn't read the post thoroughly on how to do the debit switch for MCs. The CSR was way too patient with me, and let me
2) I read and re-read these threads, and thought I understood the process. I lined up and got a nice looking CSR, but she wasn't authorized to sell MOs. She directed me to another, grumpy looking CSR. I asked to swipe before she inputted the amount so I could ensure it went through as debit, but she was having none of it. She said no, then after the transaction failed to go through twice, she asked to see what card I was using. She didn't really wait for me to hand her the card, and more so took it from me. When she saw it was a gebit, she immediately shut me down. "No gift cards. Cash or debit".
3) I decided to push my luck and tried a final WM. I never knew there were so many around me! It went pretty smoothly. I was in and out in under 10 minutes.
This didn't go the way I envisioned at all, but at least I have a better understanding of the WMs in my area. Now to deposit this MO.
Dec 3, 2019, 2:34 pm
#263
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1
I bought my first MO today , but boy, what a nerve racking experience.
Stopped by 3 local WMs...
1) I screwed up and didn't read the post thoroughly on how to do the debit switch for MCs. The CSR was way too patient with me, and let metry fail over and over again. I eventually gave up and thanked her for trying.
2) I read and re-read these threads, and thought I understood the process. I lined up and got a nice looking CSR, but she wasn't authorized to sell MOs. She directed me to another, grumpy looking CSR. I asked to swipe before she inputted the amount so I could ensure it went through as debit, but she was having none of it. She said no, then after the transaction failed to go through twice, she asked to see what card I was using. She didn't really wait for me to hand her the card, and more so took it from me. When she saw it was a gebit, she immediately shut me down. "No gift cards. Cash or debit".
3) I decided to push my luck and tried a final WM. I never knew there were so many around me! It went pretty smoothly. I was in and out in under 10 minutes.
This didn't go the way I envisioned at all, but at least I have a better understanding of the WMs in my area. Now to deposit this MO.
, but boy, what a nerve racking experience.Stopped by 3 local WMs...
1) I screwed up and didn't read the post thoroughly on how to do the debit switch for MCs. The CSR was way too patient with me, and let me
2) I read and re-read these threads, and thought I understood the process. I lined up and got a nice looking CSR, but she wasn't authorized to sell MOs. She directed me to another, grumpy looking CSR. I asked to swipe before she inputted the amount so I could ensure it went through as debit, but she was having none of it. She said no, then after the transaction failed to go through twice, she asked to see what card I was using. She didn't really wait for me to hand her the card, and more so took it from me. When she saw it was a gebit, she immediately shut me down. "No gift cards. Cash or debit".
3) I decided to push my luck and tried a final WM. I never knew there were so many around me! It went pretty smoothly. I was in and out in under 10 minutes.
This didn't go the way I envisioned at all, but at least I have a better understanding of the WMs in my area. Now to deposit this MO.
as a noob to this as well, I thought I was armed with all the knowledge but I got shutdown today at WM trying with MCGC for an MO. I agree it was def nerve racking haha. I tried just the one store and gave up to do some more research but it’s great to hear your experience. I’ll try a few other locations around me.
Dec 4, 2019, 7:22 am
#266
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SAN
Programs: Delta Gold. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Explorist.
Posts: 1,674
Mastercards are trickier to use at WM, and they also seem to be more prone to fraud. I recommend that newbies stick with Visa gift cards.
Dec 4, 2019, 6:40 pm
#268
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SAN
Programs: Delta Gold. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Explorist.
Posts: 1,674
Dec 4, 2019, 7:09 pm
#269
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
It is MS anytime you convert it to a MO, to make a CC payment, but not if you buy itbto spend on merchandise,
Dec 4, 2019, 8:08 pm
#270
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, Starwood Preferred Guest, Marriott Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 255
Yes, I did meet a guy at one of the NY meetups that does this (buys and sells retail store GCs). Since it's so hard to liquidate a VGC into an MO there, people need to think of other creative ways to MS.