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-   -   RIP Redbird... Fun while it lasted (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1660498-rip-redbird-fun-while-lasted.html)

LWT3 Mar 4, 2015 1:42 pm


Originally Posted by PaulMSN (Post 24454285)
Too many here are drawing the less likely conclusion. The two factors are deposits and withdrawals and most here are jumping on the deposits, but it seems to me the withdrawals are the more likely reason. It could be the combination of both, but quick withdrawals seems to me something they really wouldn't like. Why would they care what amounts you load with?

I agree.

BeyondtheWrap Mar 4, 2015 1:43 pm


Originally Posted by Ritley572 (Post 24454482)
When loading legitimately with actual cash even loads are FAR more likely than uneven loads. It makes no sense for them to flag loads based on even number amounts.

Exactly. If we were really the card's target audience, as a bunch of unbanked cash users, we would be loading with stacks of $20s and $100s, so it would definitely be even amounts.

CASACW2 Mar 4, 2015 1:45 pm


Originally Posted by BeyondtheWrap (Post 24454640)
Exactly. If we were really the card's target audience, as a bunch of unbanked cash users, we would be loading with stacks of $20s and $100s, so it would definitely be even amounts.

"hunnits"

michael_v Mar 4, 2015 1:47 pm

People, the letter posted in OP references $1,000 and $500 amounts, not general even amounts. There are no data points on whether $800 or $876.36 is safer. Until we have such data points, let's not speculate.

Wendigo Mar 4, 2015 1:47 pm

Irrational float panic. The source of most shutdowns.

explorer84 Mar 4, 2015 1:48 pm

Blogs have their material for the next few days...

pitkact Mar 4, 2015 1:50 pm

I don't think nice, round loads are the issue. If people (non-MS folks) load RB with cash at WM they will use round amounts $50 or $100.
I think odd numbers would raise more flags..

RickyBobby Mar 4, 2015 1:52 pm


Originally Posted by BeyondtheWrap (Post 24454640)
Exactly. If we were really the card's target audience, as a bunch of unbanked cash users, we would be loading with stacks of $20s and $100s, so it would definitely be even amounts.

Not unless you brought your piggy bank with all those hunneds :p!

michael_v Mar 4, 2015 1:53 pm


Originally Posted by michael_v (Post 24454663)
People, the letter posted in OP references $1,000 and $500 amounts, not general even amounts. There are no data points on whether $800 or $876.36 is safer. Until we have such data points, let's not speculate.

And here is that data point: the news of course hit the blogs and one commenter on View from the wing said:


I received the same shutdown notice, but it was a little bit different. It specifically called out my $750 loads

UnitedConnection Mar 4, 2015 1:54 pm

I call BS. One person claims to have received this email, and the only corroboration comes from an FT account created today? Not convinced.

Think someone is trying to play a not-actually-that-funny joke here.

iflyjetz Mar 4, 2015 1:55 pm


Originally Posted by Ritley572 (Post 24454617)
That doesn't mean loads of $998.57 are going to save you, nor does it mean ALL even loads are bad.

It means that one thing they look for are loads of exactly the load limits available.

It also states that he was immediately withdrawing in the same amounts, and the other poster above just got shut down for the same thing with no mention of even loads.

Stop pretending you are an inside man at AmEx and know definitively why this happened.

I'm not trying to 'play inside man'. I am simply able to comprehend the letter sent to the OP. It clearly states one of the reasons is $1K and $500 loads. The letter is very clear; no 'mystery' as to the two reasons why his account was flagged.

Inside man? No, I'm simply able to comprehend the written word. Which definitely states why they shut down the OP's account. Written at an 8th grade level.


Originally Posted by Ritley572 (Post 24454482)
It makes no sense for them to flag loads based on even number amounts.

... and yet that's one of the criteria written in the letter. Maybe you're right and AmEx/Target lied to the OP???

PWMTrav Mar 4, 2015 1:57 pm

Why do folks unload immediately? Mind you I've not had the card for as long as many, but even when it came to other techniques, I always waited until the end of the month to unload anyway. Part of it was convenience - mortgage and car payment are due first of the month - but part of it just seemed to make sense. I figured Amex would probably want to have the float for just a little longer than 24 hours. I've tried to frontload the loading, and then billpay what I haven't spent toward the end of the month.

I do load 500/1000 at a time, but I don't immediately take it out. I've also avoided doing the 1000/500/1000 in a day technique, although I did once do back to back 1000 swipes. I also do some shopping at Target each time I go and use the card for that - not huge in the grand scheme, but it is, you know, a Target card and they might prefer you use it for its intended purpose every once in a while.

larsok Mar 4, 2015 2:04 pm


Originally Posted by iflyjetz (Post 24454718)
It clearly states one of the reasons is $1K and $500 loads. The letter is very clear; no 'mystery' as to the two reasons why his account was flagged.

But maybe you have to see the two bullet points (loads and immediate withdrawals) together.
I would argue that high amounts for loading may be a red flag for them. Because it may hint that you intend to use the card not for its intended purposes. But I do not see why it would make the relationship sour for Amex if we load $500 instead of $493.71. What's the difference? You are not hiding anything from them. They see the whole transaction anyway.

At this point all of us will have to guess. But haven't shutdowns in other products in the past always been in conjunction with either 1) possible money laundering or 2) not being a profitable customer?
So, my guess still is that odd amounts will not save anyone. Profitable spending (at Target etc.) will.

LWT3 Mar 4, 2015 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by iflyjetz (Post 24454718)
I'm not trying to 'play inside man'. I am simply able to comprehend the letter sent to the OP. It clearly states one of the reasons is $1K and $500 loads. The letter is very clear; no 'mystery' as to the two reasons why his account was flagged.

Inside man? No, I'm simply able to comprehend the written word. Which definitely states why they shut down the OP's account. Written at an 8th grade level.



... and yet that's one of the criteria written in the letter. Maybe you're right and AmEx/Target lied to the OP???

If you draw a Venn diagram for even dollar amounts and loads of $1,000 and $500, one circle is inside of the other, but the outer circle is much larger than the inner circle.

PaulMSN Mar 4, 2015 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by iflyjetz (Post 24454551)
Are you serious? Did you read the letter. It states EXACTLY why his account was flagged. Two reasons.
One was: "Repeated suspicious activity on your account has been documented as follows:

Register "Cash" Reloads in $1000 or $500 increments"

It doesn't get much clearer than that.



Target/AmEx/Chase disagree with you. But feel free to continue with round number loading.

You take the line out of context. The full reason is:

"Register "Cash" Reloads in $1000 or $500 increments
Withdrawals and/or bill pays equal to the account balance immediately following "Cash" Reloads"

The reason given is more accurately that poster was loading amounts of money and then withdrawing the same amounts quickly. Note the reason given in TommyFlysAlot's post:

"Withdrawals and/or bill pays equal to the account balance immediately following "Cash" Reloads "

Sure, it doesn't get much clearer if you ignore everything else and focus on only the one line.


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