there is no code of silence. If this is real which you said it is, then you should be able to tell us WHICH AGENCY it was?

FBI?
DEA?
IRS?
etc

Why?

Because that would help people (that's partly why you are posting this to begin with right?) to discern more about their own situations.

Plus we want to know if something is close to illegal or illegal. If it is, we want to NOT be doing it or even coming near it.

If MS in itself is bad enough in the eyes of some LEO (I hate that word) who thinks you must be doing something bad right off, then it would help to know what specifically they did say they thought you did. If they actually did not, I personally would actually pursue THEM to find out more. Take it public, media, etc.

this would piss me off something huge. Oh sure if some black sedan pulled up and they got out and said hey we just wanna clear something up can we talk? And I said sure come into my home office and afterwards they left saying ok thanks, then that's one thing. But if a LEO gets on my case about this stuff you are talking about, well I have serious issue with it.

For one... the 911 thing and the terrorism thing.

My father was a victim on AA flight 11. My mother and others spend YEARS in a quest not to get money or recognition, rather, they fought in court to try to get answers. What did our security do or not do? What did the govt lapse on? What could the CIA or FBI have done better? Why arent the airlines or airports or airline security teams held more accountable?

They could not get even half the answers they wanted. This embittered all of us.

if some LEO came to me and accused me of anything even REMOTELY close to 911 sh*t or terrorism I would tell him to go suck and egg and go get those answers first and then come back to me and kiss my feet. And while he's at it, there's a 78 year old grandmother alone in her home wishing her husband was coming back home but he is not. My kids will never meet him. Go make her feel better and give her the answers you sorry ... boyscout and get the F out of my house!

(Yes I am pretty pissed off to be honest here)

This country is all about fraud scare, alerts, fear and terrorism. It's losing because of this. Fear is in the hearts and minds of so many people that's why people cant get ahead. I could go on for hours about this but the fact remains: I will not live in fear.

I do my MS because I can, it's legal and it works. It makes me money and gives me a chance to travel and to take my mother too--on trips to places my father dreamed of going. It gives me a chance to take my family to see extended family overseas and retain their culture (PS in much of western EU MS would never work and may not even be legal, so if this country wants to stop it, make it not legal. Otherwise, shut up and sell me my GC or MO!)

****

Some years ago I started a thread in FT about things I was shut down from. I cant find it now but at the time I was just trying to list what happened to me as a sort of helpful guide for others. Instead people started to think I was bragging. Then some thought I was the scammer. And because I was shut down from this or that store or FI, i was suddenly deserving of it and totally wrong. In fact this thread was even printed out by the Cartera lawyer when I took them to SCC over missing points on the US MOM promo. (In the end it was ruled that while I lost in court and would not get monetary compensation, I did that same day get ALL my missing miles and bonus miles from Cartera and United and other airlines involved. This was NOT to do with the AA Verizon Glitter Gate thing). Anyway that lawyer tried to present that thread to tell the judge what a known gamer and scammer I must be. Well it didn't really stick.

The point is, if you post something bad has happened to you in here, people often jump all over you. Right now I may be the only one doing that. That's because while what you say makes some sense, it also doesn't totally to me. I still want to know what agency.

And others have asked. Will you explain what volume you were doing?

I can tell you right now that in the winter I was pushing over $450k in combined MS ($400k of it on my TYP a couple months in a row) and doing like 75-90k DL miles a month on ST and nearly that much on AS. I had been applying--not in huge app o ramas--for many CCs and buying GCs daily to the tune of over $20k a day, sometimes up to $30k. I was burning everywhere and driving all over my state to hit like every Wmt there is. I can tell you one Market Manager from near where I live has effectively banned me from doing any financial anything at any Wmt in her market, and any one in the market of her husband, who works in the neighboring state as a market manager too. They have it out for me like a LEO would! lol. But I still find a way. Cuz I know I do nothing wrong. The reason she got into banning me is a sad story in fact:

basically I bought SOOOOOOooOoOOOOOo many Mos over time (once did $400k spend on ST in one month alone, and also had done $1 mil spend on 5 dif AS cards total in 5 months) and then a glitch happened with a $8k order that got someone there in trouble cuz they gave me MOs without getting paid. Even though I was honest and brought them in, I was part of it.

So combine those things together and add in an overzealous market manager and that is that.
this was pre GC so 20111/12.


well the way it worked is... i bought $8k mos

printer jammed so they reset.

then they all eventually came out after an hour.

I left.

next day I came in to get more and when checking my bal online I saw that the ones from the day before never deducted from my bank.

So I showed the csr and she got csm.

she checked the books and then said omg yah that makes sense. We are off! I never check these.

so I handed her the 8 I now bought and she was so grateful

then a week later $8k was deducted from my bank!

I then wanted my 8k back.

took weeks. They even deducted again by mistake.

then the manager came and said no more for you.

mkt manager also got on it and told me no.

they fired the loss prevention lady (said she was transferring but the clerk I knew best told me in secret what happened to her. She was held responsible for letting this happen.)

Had I said nothing they would have just quietly fixed the glitch and it would have deducted automatically over time and all would be well. No one ever checks things so it would have sorted it self out. I would have been deducted the right ammt in that week and never had to say a thing or give up money.

***

three people I know have had version of this same sequence happen and wmt never deducted nor caught it. They left their funds avail to be deducted for a year. Nothing happened.

not that I would purposely do it, but I would imagine that might get someone's attention if investigated. Still, the fact is, the market manager uses this incident as a reason to stop me and she told me she thinks buying MOs for miles (compliance and her read blogs and threads) is immoral and fraud. That's what they think. Not much you can do there. They are wrong but that is what they think. So I must just wait it out til she leaves. Til then I shop in other markets.

So I also hate hearing stories of people complaining that they have to drive a bit further to go get Mos after work.

In the end, I am able and willing to disclose my situation and I aint even being investigated!

MDWCommuter, I got into the MS game several years back after the Bexar County District Attorney got caught flying on stolen Southwest vouchers. She was a Republican. The only talking points I have regarding politics relate to fraud and corruption and I happily tar and feather politicians from either party.:p

I'm no legal expert, have never gotten into trouble (or even alleged trouble) with the law. But this is disturbing. How can they pressure you to "talk" when you are not even charged with anything? I've seen youtube videos on advice from lawyers of never talking to cops without the presence of a lawyer, I would assume the same would hold true to you encounter as well. Cops have a bad habit of twisting the truth (they are trained to do that), and I'm surprised you didn't get into real trouble for sharing your MS story with them. I'm not saying what you did is illegal (it sure is NOT), but cops will always try to misinterpret what you said to see if they can fish or infer out a more nefarious or criminal angle, and when it goes to trial, it can get quite tricky.

Did you get a lawyer to be present during the questioning?

Dude, that was a looong post. Did not contain enough details for you???

Sad story, so basically you got banned for being honest about a $8k mistake (in your favor)? Some gratitude this people have...

I would have done what you did, but now after this story, I think I will just let it slip if it ever happens to me and allow their system to correct itself.

I believe in order to toll the statute of limitations they have to file charges. I don't get the impression it went that far from what I read. So "never" wouldn't technically be true.

No, we are neither schemers or scammers. Like corporate raiders, we serve the economy by constantly looking for and (legally) liberating the hidden value that can be found in companies. :p

Deleted.

Yup long

Guess why else im called marathon man!

But like i said... Im all about DETAILS. You dont want em? Dont read em.

Thats right. Next time i would just keep their money and let them either figure it out or not


I have been both in trouble with the law and investigated by agencies. One was the fbi although nothing to do with ft or ms or miles or points

You wanna know more? Give me all YOUR details

Oh... Also, i would imagine the leo or his superiors are or could be viewing threads such as these and would know seat17s real name just as that wmt market manager and wmt complaince knew mine by seeing things online. So did cartera. So if those lesser than government entities can know me, then the leo can know what seat17 is saying now. More reason to either say nothing here or say it all.

Me? When the leo visits me if i DO come into ft to tell yall, i will tell it ALL

Word to the wise: LEO shows up asking you questions about your MS activities, or really anytime LEO is investigating you, politely insist on having an attorney present. In other words, invoke your right to remain silent until you have someone to help you navigate the system...

Unless the activity or activities subject to the investigation have been ongoing.

I don't necessarily agree with you on this, if your guilty of something, Yes remain silent, but if you have nothing to hide....

What's the point of going through the extra loophole, and making yourself look guilty.

IMHOP: Innocent people do not immediately ask for their attorneys.

This discussion raises an interesting question: Would people be interested in a thread with legal issues related to MS?

No lawyer with half a brain will actually answer individual questions or provide legal advice (malpractice implications and ethics issues), but it does seem like a generalized thread could be useful...

I suspect you'd feel differently if you sat through a criminal procedure class or read some of the case law on searches.