Jun 5, 2014, 1:13 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Welcome to the FRA connection thread! If you are new to FRA or this thread, please read the first post where you will find a summary of all pertinent information before asking more specific questions.
Current MCT in FRA connecting to/from LH:
Current MCT in FRA connecting to/from LH:
Code:
DMLH/FRA/LH/17MAY22 FRA LH TO LH FRA-FRA FROM - TO D/D D/I I/D I/I CC FLTN-FLTR ORGN EQP TM CS-CC FLTN-FLTR DEST EQP TM CS HHMM HHMM HHMM HHMM LH BUS - ---- ---- ---- 0100 LH - TRN 0100 0100 0100 0100 LH BR - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH CA - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH CN - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH EG - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH ET - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH IN - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH JP - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH QA - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH SG - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH TH - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH US - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH ZA - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH - US ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH KJR - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH KWQ - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH QDU - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH QKL - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH QKU - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH ZWS - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH KLT BUS - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH SDA BUS - ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH 0400-0799 - ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH Y- TRN 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH KJR Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH KWQ Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH QDU Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH QKL Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH QKU Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH ZWS Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH KLT BUS Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH SDA BUS Y- 0100 ---- ---- ---- LH CA- ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH AC- TRN ---- ---- ---- 0200 LH PL LO- ---- ---- 0100 ---- LH PL LO- SC ---- ---- ---- 0100 TRN -LH ---- 0100 0100 0100 -LH BR ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH CA ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH CN ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH EG ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH ET ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH IN ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH JP ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH QA ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH SG ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH TH ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH US ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH ZA ---- 0100 ---- 0100 -LH TLV ---- 0100 ---- 0100 BUS -LH TLV ---- 0200 ---- 0200 TRN -LH TLV ---- 0200 ---- 0200 TRS -LH TLV ---- 0200 ---- 0200 -LH 0400-0799 ---- 0100 ---- 0100 BUS -LH 0400-0799 ---- 0115 ---- 0115 -LH 0780-0780 NKG ---- ---- ---- 0800 -LH 0720-0720 PEK ---- ---- ---- 0800 -LH 0728-0728 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 -LH 0732-0732 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 -LH 0720-0720 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 -LH 0782-0782 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 -LH 0786-0786 TAO ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0100 0100 0100 0100 LH -LH BUS 0100 0100 0100 0100 LH TRN -LH BUS INV INV INV INV LH TRS -LH BUS INV INV INV INV LH BUS -LH TRN INV INV INV INV LH BUS -LH TRS INV INV INV INV LH SC BUS -LH ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH SC TRN -LH ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH SC TRS -LH ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH -LH SC BUS ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH -LH SC TRN ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH -LH SC TRS ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH SC TRN -LH SC TRN INV INV INV INV LH SC TRS -LH SC TRN INV INV INV INV LH SC TRN -LH SC TRS INV INV INV INV LH SC TRS -LH SC TRS INV INV INV INV LH XER BUS -LH SC ---- ---- ---- 0100 LH -LH TLV ---- ---- ---- 0100 LH 0400-0799 -LH BUS ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH 0400-0799 -LH TRN ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH 0400-0799 -LH TRS ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH BUS -LH 0400-0799 ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH TRN -LH 0400-0799 ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH TRS -LH 0400-0799 ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH SC -LH 0400-0799 SG ---- 0045 ---- 0045 LH SC -LH 0400-0799 US ---- 0045 ---- 0045 LH SC -LH 0400-0799 ZA ---- 0045 ---- 0045 LH SC TRS -LH 0400-0799 US ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH BUS -LH 0780-0780 NKG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0780-0780 NKG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0780-0780 NKG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0720-0720 PEK ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0720-0720 PEK ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0720-0720 PEK ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0728-0728 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0732-0732 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0728-0728 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0732-0732 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0728-0728 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0732-0732 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0720-0720 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0782-0782 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0720-0720 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0782-0782 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0720-0720 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0782-0782 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH BUS -LH 0786-0786 TAO ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRN -LH 0786-0786 TAO ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH TRS -LH 0786-0786 TAO ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH 0400-0799 -LH 0001-3799 BUS ---- ---- 0100 ---- LH 0400-0799 -LH 0001-3799 TRN ---- ---- 0100 ---- LH 0400-0799 -LH 0001-3799 TRS ---- ---- 0100 ---- LH Y-LH BUS ---- 0100 ---- ---- LH AC-LH TRN ---- ---- 0200 ---- LH US UA-LH ---- ---- 0100 0100 LH UA-LH BY ---- ---- ---- INV LH EW-LH 0780-0780 NKG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH EW-LH 0720-0720 PEK ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH EW-LH 0728-0728 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH EW-LH 0732-0732 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH EW-LH 0720-0720 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH EW-LH 0782-0782 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH EW-LH 0786-0786 TAO ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0780-0780 NKG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0720-0720 PEK ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0728-0728 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0732-0732 PVG ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0720-0720 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0782-0782 SHE ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH SN-LH 0786-0786 TAO ---- ---- ---- 0800 LH 0400-0799 -LH 0001-3799 BUS Y ---- ---- 0100 ---- LH 0400-0799 -LH 0001-3799 TRN Y ---- ---- 0100 ---- LH 0400-0799 -LH 0001-3799 TRS Y ---- ---- 0100 ---- -LH AC ---- ---- ---- 0100 -LH AI ---- 0115 ---- 0115 -LH XQ ---- 0130 ---- 0130 -LH PL LO ---- 0100 ---- ---- -LH BR OS ---- 0100 ---- ---- SC -LH PL LO ---- ---- ---- 0100 LH -LH UA ---- 0100 ---- 0100 LH -LH XQ ---- 0130 ---- 0130 LH BUS -LH AC ---- ---- ---- 0200 LH TRN -LH AC ---- 0200 ---- 0200 LH TRN -LH UA ---- 0130 ---- ---- LH BY -LH UA ---- ---- ---- INV LH QDU -LH US UA ---- 0130 ---- ---- LH QKL -LH US UA ---- 0130 ---- ---- LH ZWS -LH US UA ---- 0130 ---- ---- LH LG-LH AC ---- ---- ---- 0200 LH AC-LH LG ---- ---- ---- 0200 LH AC-LH AT OS ---- ---- ---- 0100
Connecting in Frankfurt [FRA] 2009-2023 (retired)
Oct 24, 2018, 7:52 am
#4936
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between DM464 and DM463 on the NAPSA26 RNAV TRANS in EDDM
Programs: this and that
Posts: 1,731
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding, my question wasn't about how to connect, but on how to read the wiki (the original flight was cancelled and I was rebooked).
There are only two lines with a I-D connection and an MCT below 1 hour; the one is limited to arriving flights with numbers 7330-7353 and the other is for LH 0443 to LH0126.
DMLH/FRA/LH/23NOV16
FRA LH TO LH
FRA-FRA FROM - TO D/D D/I I/D I/I
CC FLTN-FLTR ORGN EQPTM-CC FLTN-FLTR DEST EQPTM HMM HMM HMM HMM
LH 7330-7353 ZA - --- --- 045 045
LH 0443 -LH 0126 --- --- 050 ---
Quite possible that I misread something, or am misunderstanding something.
Does an arrival from Poland not count as an International departure (since it is a Schengen country)?
A small how to on reading the wiki would be appreciated...
There are only two lines with a I-D connection and an MCT below 1 hour; the one is limited to arriving flights with numbers 7330-7353 and the other is for LH 0443 to LH0126.
DMLH/FRA/LH/23NOV16
FRA LH TO LH
FRA-FRA FROM - TO D/D D/I I/D I/I
CC FLTN-FLTR ORGN EQPTM-CC FLTN-FLTR DEST EQPTM HMM HMM HMM HMM
LH 7330-7353 ZA - --- --- 045 045
LH 0443 -LH 0126 --- --- 050 ---
Quite possible that I misread something, or am misunderstanding something.
Does an arrival from Poland not count as an International departure (since it is a Schengen country)?
A small how to on reading the wiki would be appreciated...
STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .45 .45 .45 .45
OFFLINE .45 .45 .45 .45
** OR * ARE ALL
LH-LH DD 1.00 EQP ALL - BUS
LH-LH DD 1.00 EQP BUS - ALL
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KLT EQP ALL - BUS
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - SDA EQP ALL - BUS
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QKL
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QKU
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QDU
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KJR
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KWQ
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - ZWS
**-LH DD 1.00 EQP TRN - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KLT - ALL EQP BUS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 SDA - ALL EQP BUS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QKL - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QKU - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QDU - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KJR - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KWQ - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 ZWS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 EQP ALL - TRN
**-** DD 4.00 INTER FRA - HHN
**-** DD 4.00 INTER HHN - FRA
Oct 24, 2018, 8:00 am
#4937
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Programs: *G, OWS
Posts: 214
Since Poland is part of the Schengen Group of countries a connection from a flight arriving from Poland to a domestic flight within Germany falls under DD (domestic-domestic):
STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .45 .45 .45 .45
OFFLINE .45 .45 .45 .45
** OR * ARE ALL
LH-LH DD 1.00 EQP ALL - BUS
LH-LH DD 1.00 EQP BUS - ALL
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KLT EQP ALL - BUS
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - SDA EQP ALL - BUS
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QKL
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QKU
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QDU
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KJR
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KWQ
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - ZWS
**-LH DD 1.00 EQP TRN - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KLT - ALL EQP BUS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 SDA - ALL EQP BUS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QKL - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QKU - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QDU - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KJR - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KWQ - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 ZWS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 EQP ALL - TRN
**-** DD 4.00 INTER FRA - HHN
**-** DD 4.00 INTER HHN - FRA
STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .45 .45 .45 .45
OFFLINE .45 .45 .45 .45
** OR * ARE ALL
LH-LH DD 1.00 EQP ALL - BUS
LH-LH DD 1.00 EQP BUS - ALL
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KLT EQP ALL - BUS
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - SDA EQP ALL - BUS
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QKL
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QKU
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - QDU
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KJR
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - KWQ
**-LH DD 1.00 ALL - ZWS
**-LH DD 1.00 EQP TRN - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KLT - ALL EQP BUS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 SDA - ALL EQP BUS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QKL - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QKU - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 QDU - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KJR - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 KWQ - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 ZWS - ALL
LH-** DD 1.00 EQP ALL - TRN
**-** DD 4.00 INTER FRA - HHN
**-** DD 4.00 INTER HHN - FRA
1. Should that information not be put into the wiki (It seems to be missint there)?
2. Since both flights would have been on regional jets with a bus transfer should the 1 hour MCT not apply?
3. What's the difference between online and offline?
Oct 24, 2018, 2:34 pm
#4938
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,063
Online and Offline times are used for connections other than directly specified that are with the same airline or between different airlines.
Since netiher POZ, FMO or the flight numbers are mentioned, and you are connecting LH to LH, you go with ONLINE time of .45
Nov 5, 2018, 8:18 am
#4939
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: Priority Club Plat, SQ KrisFlyer Silver
Posts: 114
My apologies to all who assisted with this query - I've been without reliable internet connection in Kenya for a week, now back home.
Thank you again for all the helpful tips, in the end we decided to go for it and it worked like clockwork. We were able to meet for coffee and be back in good time for boarding - for one who is pretty risk averse this was adventurous, but certainly possible haha!
Thanks to all!
Nick
Thank you again for all the helpful tips, in the end we decided to go for it and it worked like clockwork. We were able to meet for coffee and be back in good time for boarding - for one who is pretty risk averse this was adventurous, but certainly possible haha!
Thanks to all!
Nick
Nov 5, 2018, 10:36 am
#4940
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
Thanks for reporting back. I’m glad it worked well for you. It’s always good to hear how things went on the day!
Nov 6, 2018, 12:45 am
#4941
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy BS, Hertz & Avis Pres
Posts: 653
Long-time, avid lurker here. Didn't notice a post about this post-security, non-Schengen transfer bus since the one above back in May, so I wanted to report that it was still active as of the morning of 14 Oct 2018. The bus runs during the AM hours (can't remember the exact time it stops) from Z11 to B63. When arriving to AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not ANS nor Z50A thru Z69A), the route you'll follow is: Arrival -> Z11 -> down a lot of stairs -> bus -> B63 -> non-Schengen area of T1B (B20 thru B63). No security checks or passport checks are encountered at all when you take this route.
If the bus isn't running, perhaps in the afternoon, you of course can still avoid a security check by taking the double passport check route as follows: Arrival to AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not ANS nor Z50A thru Z69A) -> follow signs to A gates (access either near Z13 or Z25) -> Schengen zone inbound passport check -> follow signs to B gates -> board elevators / lifts between A15 and A17 and descend to tunnel to B gates -> walk through tunnel to B gates -> ascend on elevators / lifts to B gates and arrive in Schengen zone B1 thru B19 -> follow signs to B20 thru B63 -> Schengen zone outbound passport check -> non-Schengen area of T1B (B20 thru B63). No security check is encountered when following this route, but passport controls are encountered twice. Of course, this route is not an option if you do not have a Schengen visa (but require one to enter the Schengen zone).
If the bus isn't running, perhaps in the afternoon, and you don't have a Schengen visa (and require one to enter the Schengen zone), you would of course just follow the regularly posted signs to B gates, making sure to avoid any routes which direct you to only B gates numbered 19 or lower. This route will be as follows: Arrival to AEUW, ANS, Z11 thru Z69, or Z50A thru Z69A -> up to the non-Schengen platform and then carriage of the SkyLine system -> SkyLine one stop to B gates -> right turn at bottom of stairs / escalator / elevator / lift toward B20 thru B63 -> security checkpoint -> non-Schengen area of T1B (B20 thru B63).
I'm not certain whether this last scenario would be possible or not, but where this post-security, non-Schengen transfer bus would come in handy most of all would be in the opposite direction. Unlike the Z to B direction, there is no way that I'm aware of to transfer from non-Schengen B to any other gates in the airport without passing through a security checkpoint. I only took the bus in the Z to B direction, so I didn't notice whether or not there was any signage near B63 (as there was near Z11). Therefore, it's possible that it may not even be allowed to board the bus at B63 to travel to Z11. However, if it hypothetically were possible, boarding the bus at B63 would give non-Schengen T1B passengers access to both the Z and A gates without requiring a security check. The hypothetical route would be as follows: Start in the non-Schengen clean B20 thru B63 gate area on levels 1 and 2 or the non-Schengen clean LH or AC lounge area on level 3 -> B63 -> bus -> Z11 -> up a lot of stairs -> Z gates. Optionally, continue on to A gates via only one Schengen zone inbound passport check near Z13 or Z25. Theoretically then from the A gates, in a very roundabout way, it would even be possible to access the Schengen zone of T1B without ever encountering a security checkpoint by concluding the circuitous route with this route extension: follow the signs to B gates -> board elevators / lifts between A15 and A17 and descend to tunnel to B gates -> walk through tunnel to B gates -> ascend on the elevators / lifts to the B gates, arriving at Schengen zone B1 thru B19 (rather than non-Schengen zone B20 thru B63 where you started). Has anyone ever tried to board the transfer bus at B63 and been able to travel to Z11?
Does anyone know if any other clean, non-Schengen, T1B-arriving flights other than just SQ25 from JFK provide arrival access into the clean area of B20 thru B63? If not, why don't those other flights from the US, Canada, UK, Ireland, etc. open up to the clean area of B20 thru B63, just as they would were they to arrive in AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not Z50A thru Z69A)? Even if they were clean non-Schengen bus arrivals to T1B, they could be designated as "BEUW" or "BEUO" and buses could let passengers off to enter the terminal at any of the bus gates B30 thru B33 or B54 thru B63.
As it stands today, almost all non-Schengen T1B arrivals, whether from clean or unclean origins, are treated as unclean and designated as B20A thru B28A, B41A thru B48A, or BNS. B20A thru B28A and B41A thru B48A arrivals ascend from their jet bridges directly to T1B level 3 unclean, non-Schengen corridors which meet the junction of the T1B west and east piers. BNS bus arrivals drop off in former gates B50 thru B53 from which passengers then take dedicated elevators / lifts / glass-enclosed escalators from level 1, skipping level 2, directly to level 3, letting them off in the same unclean non-Schengen level 3 corridor at the junction of the T1B west and east piers. The Schengen zone inbound passport control for all T1B non-Schengen arrivals is located at this same junction point, as is access to the unclean non-Schengen corridor to the non-Schengen carriage of SkyLine and other non-B non-Schengen gates.
Were T1B clean non-Schengen arrivals to actually be recognized for their clean status, then (1) terminating passengers, (2) non-Schengen transiting passengers connecting to gates other than B20 thru B63, and (3) non-Schengen to Schengen transiting passengers connecting to gates other than A or B1 thru B19 would simply proceed up to the clean corridor on level 3 (where the MLL and McDonalds food court are located) via the escalators adjacent to B22 and B42, pass through the clean to unclean exit portals located on either side of the opposite direction T1B level 3 non-Schengen transfer security checkpoint, and arrive at this exact same T1B unclean non-Schengen junction point as they do today. Clean non-Schengen passengers transiting to other non-Schengen flights departing from B20 thru B63 could just proceed directly to their next gate with no security checks or passport checks at all. And finally, if Fraport were to simply reverse the flow of a few of the passport check booths on level 2 at the T1B west and east pier junction point, they could enable clean non-Schengen to Schengen transiting passengers to connect to gates A and B1 thru B19 with no security check and just one passport check, just as they do when arriving at AEUW and Z11 thru Z69 (but not Z50A thru Z69A) today.
It doesn't seem to make any logical sense that flights on the same airlines from the same clean country origins be would treated as clean when they arrive to AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not Z50A thru Z69A), but nearly always as dirty when they arrive to T1B, especially when the fix to this problem seems so simple (as spelled out above). Other than the zero cost procedural changes of (1) opening the jet bridge doors to departure lounges B20 thru B28 and B41 thru B48 directly (rather than diverting clean arrivals to the level 3 unclean corridor via B20A thru B28A and B41A thru B48A) and (2) establishing a "BEUW" or "BEUO" clean non-Schengen bus arrival procedure via any of existing bus gates B30 thru B33 or B54 through B63, the only physical modification required to enable this solution would be spinning around a few of the passport check booths on T1B level 2. The money saved on the reduced volume of transiting passengers requiring security screenings pay for this modification rather quickly I reckon. Am I missing something here? What do you all think? Is there a reason that anyone is aware of that these simple changes haven’t been made to date?
Lastly, does anyone think this bus would be even more valuable if it added a stop in the C14 thru C20 range as well? It would seem the same justification exists for a Z11 – B63 route as a Z11 – B63 – C14-20 route. Does anyone think this would ever be considered or feasible?
If the bus isn't running, perhaps in the afternoon, you of course can still avoid a security check by taking the double passport check route as follows: Arrival to AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not ANS nor Z50A thru Z69A) -> follow signs to A gates (access either near Z13 or Z25) -> Schengen zone inbound passport check -> follow signs to B gates -> board elevators / lifts between A15 and A17 and descend to tunnel to B gates -> walk through tunnel to B gates -> ascend on elevators / lifts to B gates and arrive in Schengen zone B1 thru B19 -> follow signs to B20 thru B63 -> Schengen zone outbound passport check -> non-Schengen area of T1B (B20 thru B63). No security check is encountered when following this route, but passport controls are encountered twice. Of course, this route is not an option if you do not have a Schengen visa (but require one to enter the Schengen zone).
If the bus isn't running, perhaps in the afternoon, and you don't have a Schengen visa (and require one to enter the Schengen zone), you would of course just follow the regularly posted signs to B gates, making sure to avoid any routes which direct you to only B gates numbered 19 or lower. This route will be as follows: Arrival to AEUW, ANS, Z11 thru Z69, or Z50A thru Z69A -> up to the non-Schengen platform and then carriage of the SkyLine system -> SkyLine one stop to B gates -> right turn at bottom of stairs / escalator / elevator / lift toward B20 thru B63 -> security checkpoint -> non-Schengen area of T1B (B20 thru B63).
I'm not certain whether this last scenario would be possible or not, but where this post-security, non-Schengen transfer bus would come in handy most of all would be in the opposite direction. Unlike the Z to B direction, there is no way that I'm aware of to transfer from non-Schengen B to any other gates in the airport without passing through a security checkpoint. I only took the bus in the Z to B direction, so I didn't notice whether or not there was any signage near B63 (as there was near Z11). Therefore, it's possible that it may not even be allowed to board the bus at B63 to travel to Z11. However, if it hypothetically were possible, boarding the bus at B63 would give non-Schengen T1B passengers access to both the Z and A gates without requiring a security check. The hypothetical route would be as follows: Start in the non-Schengen clean B20 thru B63 gate area on levels 1 and 2 or the non-Schengen clean LH or AC lounge area on level 3 -> B63 -> bus -> Z11 -> up a lot of stairs -> Z gates. Optionally, continue on to A gates via only one Schengen zone inbound passport check near Z13 or Z25. Theoretically then from the A gates, in a very roundabout way, it would even be possible to access the Schengen zone of T1B without ever encountering a security checkpoint by concluding the circuitous route with this route extension: follow the signs to B gates -> board elevators / lifts between A15 and A17 and descend to tunnel to B gates -> walk through tunnel to B gates -> ascend on the elevators / lifts to the B gates, arriving at Schengen zone B1 thru B19 (rather than non-Schengen zone B20 thru B63 where you started). Has anyone ever tried to board the transfer bus at B63 and been able to travel to Z11?
Does anyone know if any other clean, non-Schengen, T1B-arriving flights other than just SQ25 from JFK provide arrival access into the clean area of B20 thru B63? If not, why don't those other flights from the US, Canada, UK, Ireland, etc. open up to the clean area of B20 thru B63, just as they would were they to arrive in AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not Z50A thru Z69A)? Even if they were clean non-Schengen bus arrivals to T1B, they could be designated as "BEUW" or "BEUO" and buses could let passengers off to enter the terminal at any of the bus gates B30 thru B33 or B54 thru B63.
As it stands today, almost all non-Schengen T1B arrivals, whether from clean or unclean origins, are treated as unclean and designated as B20A thru B28A, B41A thru B48A, or BNS. B20A thru B28A and B41A thru B48A arrivals ascend from their jet bridges directly to T1B level 3 unclean, non-Schengen corridors which meet the junction of the T1B west and east piers. BNS bus arrivals drop off in former gates B50 thru B53 from which passengers then take dedicated elevators / lifts / glass-enclosed escalators from level 1, skipping level 2, directly to level 3, letting them off in the same unclean non-Schengen level 3 corridor at the junction of the T1B west and east piers. The Schengen zone inbound passport control for all T1B non-Schengen arrivals is located at this same junction point, as is access to the unclean non-Schengen corridor to the non-Schengen carriage of SkyLine and other non-B non-Schengen gates.
Were T1B clean non-Schengen arrivals to actually be recognized for their clean status, then (1) terminating passengers, (2) non-Schengen transiting passengers connecting to gates other than B20 thru B63, and (3) non-Schengen to Schengen transiting passengers connecting to gates other than A or B1 thru B19 would simply proceed up to the clean corridor on level 3 (where the MLL and McDonalds food court are located) via the escalators adjacent to B22 and B42, pass through the clean to unclean exit portals located on either side of the opposite direction T1B level 3 non-Schengen transfer security checkpoint, and arrive at this exact same T1B unclean non-Schengen junction point as they do today. Clean non-Schengen passengers transiting to other non-Schengen flights departing from B20 thru B63 could just proceed directly to their next gate with no security checks or passport checks at all. And finally, if Fraport were to simply reverse the flow of a few of the passport check booths on level 2 at the T1B west and east pier junction point, they could enable clean non-Schengen to Schengen transiting passengers to connect to gates A and B1 thru B19 with no security check and just one passport check, just as they do when arriving at AEUW and Z11 thru Z69 (but not Z50A thru Z69A) today.
It doesn't seem to make any logical sense that flights on the same airlines from the same clean country origins be would treated as clean when they arrive to AEUW or Z11 thru Z69 (but not Z50A thru Z69A), but nearly always as dirty when they arrive to T1B, especially when the fix to this problem seems so simple (as spelled out above). Other than the zero cost procedural changes of (1) opening the jet bridge doors to departure lounges B20 thru B28 and B41 thru B48 directly (rather than diverting clean arrivals to the level 3 unclean corridor via B20A thru B28A and B41A thru B48A) and (2) establishing a "BEUW" or "BEUO" clean non-Schengen bus arrival procedure via any of existing bus gates B30 thru B33 or B54 through B63, the only physical modification required to enable this solution would be spinning around a few of the passport check booths on T1B level 2. The money saved on the reduced volume of transiting passengers requiring security screenings pay for this modification rather quickly I reckon. Am I missing something here? What do you all think? Is there a reason that anyone is aware of that these simple changes haven’t been made to date?
Lastly, does anyone think this bus would be even more valuable if it added a stop in the C14 thru C20 range as well? It would seem the same justification exists for a Z11 – B63 route as a Z11 – B63 – C14-20 route. Does anyone think this would ever be considered or feasible?
Does anyone know how late the Z --> B bus runs? We are arriving Thursday on LH447 around 11:15a (hopefully into Z!) and connecting to TK to IST with only 60 minutes.
Nov 6, 2018, 5:21 am
#4942
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: Priority Club Plat, SQ KrisFlyer Silver
Posts: 114
Thank you NewbieRunner - we did have a bus gate, but extremely close to the terminal, after an escalator up, this brought us out about 20 metres from immigration, then a quick walk to C gates check in and met our friend at Starbucks. Completely clockwork!
Nov 7, 2018, 2:51 pm
#4943
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Francisco
Programs: United 1K, Lifetime *G, KLM Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite + Others
Posts: 8
Hello. First time poster here. Very glad to stumble across this message board and find such a great resource with many knowledgeable contributors!
I will be arriving from AMS and connecting in FRA to DEL, all on LH. One option is to leave on 11:00 from AMS, arriving 12:10 in FRA, usually at gate A26 or A34 (something like that). Connecting flight has been from C16 the past few days since they are using A380 to DEL these days. Departure flight leaves at 13:20.
Connection time of 1:10 makes me very nervous to go all the way from one side (Schengen, high-numbered A gates) to far other end of Terminal 1 to C16. I did that last year going from AMS to Buenos Aires EZE, and I seem to recall walking for about 30 minutes, and rather briskly at that! That was on my own, but this will be with my wife and 15 yr old son. We move pretty well, but always slower to travel with others. And no way to avoid security going to C gates, and FRA security is really among the slowest I have experienced all over the world.
So my head tells me that discretion is better choice and we should take the earlier flight. Sadly, this will be on a Saturday, and there is only one earlier flight leaving AMS at 7:45.
So that will leave a 4 hour layover at FRA, which is also a lousy outcome, but probably the safer one.
Just interested to see if others would agree, or am I worrying too much, and we should be able to make the connection (assuming the inbound is basically on time)? Thanks in advance!
I will be arriving from AMS and connecting in FRA to DEL, all on LH. One option is to leave on 11:00 from AMS, arriving 12:10 in FRA, usually at gate A26 or A34 (something like that). Connecting flight has been from C16 the past few days since they are using A380 to DEL these days. Departure flight leaves at 13:20.
Connection time of 1:10 makes me very nervous to go all the way from one side (Schengen, high-numbered A gates) to far other end of Terminal 1 to C16. I did that last year going from AMS to Buenos Aires EZE, and I seem to recall walking for about 30 minutes, and rather briskly at that! That was on my own, but this will be with my wife and 15 yr old son. We move pretty well, but always slower to travel with others. And no way to avoid security going to C gates, and FRA security is really among the slowest I have experienced all over the world.
So my head tells me that discretion is better choice and we should take the earlier flight. Sadly, this will be on a Saturday, and there is only one earlier flight leaving AMS at 7:45.
So that will leave a 4 hour layover at FRA, which is also a lousy outcome, but probably the safer one.Just interested to see if others would agree, or am I worrying too much, and we should be able to make the connection (assuming the inbound is basically on time)? Thanks in advance!
Last edited by Gocard69; Nov 8, 2018 at 4:22 am
Nov 7, 2018, 10:56 pm
#4944
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
Hello. First time poster here. Very glad to stumble across this message board and find such a great resource with many knowledgeable contributors!
I will be arriving from AMS and connecting in FRA to DEL, all on LH. One option is to leave on 11:00 from AMS, arriving 12:10 in FRA, usually at gate A26 or A34 (something like that). Connecting flight has been from C16 the past few days since they are using A380 to DEL these days. Departure flight leaves at 13:20.
Connection time of 1:10 makes me very nervous to go all the way from one side (Schengen, high-numbered A gates) to far other end of Terminal 1 to C16. I did that last year going from AMS to Buenos Aires EZE, and I seem to recall walking for about 30 minutes, and rather briskly at that! That was on my own, but this will be with my wife and 15 yr old son. We move pretty well, but always slower to travel with others. And no way to avoid security going to C gates, and FRA security is really among the slowest I have experienced all over the world.
So my head tells me that discretion is better choice and we should take the earlier flight. Sadly, this will be on a Saturday, and there is only one earlier flight leaving AMS at 7:45. :^( So that will leave a 4 hour layover at FRA, which is also a lousy outcome, but probably the safer one.
Just interested to see if others would agree, or am I worrying too much, and we should be able to make the connection (assuming the inbound is basically on time)? Thanks in advance!
I will be arriving from AMS and connecting in FRA to DEL, all on LH. One option is to leave on 11:00 from AMS, arriving 12:10 in FRA, usually at gate A26 or A34 (something like that). Connecting flight has been from C16 the past few days since they are using A380 to DEL these days. Departure flight leaves at 13:20.
Connection time of 1:10 makes me very nervous to go all the way from one side (Schengen, high-numbered A gates) to far other end of Terminal 1 to C16. I did that last year going from AMS to Buenos Aires EZE, and I seem to recall walking for about 30 minutes, and rather briskly at that! That was on my own, but this will be with my wife and 15 yr old son. We move pretty well, but always slower to travel with others. And no way to avoid security going to C gates, and FRA security is really among the slowest I have experienced all over the world.
So my head tells me that discretion is better choice and we should take the earlier flight. Sadly, this will be on a Saturday, and there is only one earlier flight leaving AMS at 7:45. :^( So that will leave a 4 hour layover at FRA, which is also a lousy outcome, but probably the safer one.
Just interested to see if others would agree, or am I worrying too much, and we should be able to make the connection (assuming the inbound is basically on time)? Thanks in advance!
Nov 8, 2018, 2:16 am
#4945
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
Connection time of 1:10 makes me very nervous to go all the way from one side (Schengen, high-numbered A gates) to far other end of Terminal 1 to C16. I did that last year going from AMS to Buenos Aires EZE, and I seem to recall walking for about 30 minutes, and rather briskly at that! That was on my own, but this will be with my wife and 15 yr old son. We move pretty well, but always slower to travel with others. And no way to avoid security going to C gates, and FRA security is really among the slowest I have experienced all over the world.
To add to what chris63 wrote, there is now a Skyline train platform for C gates (previously B and C shared a stop) and the distance you have to walk will be shorter than when you last connected from a C gate. However, I agree that 1h10m is too tight for an A > C connection to a longhaul flight.
Nov 8, 2018, 4:31 am
#4946
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Francisco
Programs: United 1K, Lifetime *G, KLM Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite + Others
Posts: 8
Welcome to FlyerTalk, Gocard69!
To add to what chris63 wrote, there is now a Skyline train platform for C gates (previously B and C shared a stop) and the distance you have to walk will be shorter than when you last connected from a C gate. However, I agree that 1h10m is too tight for an A > C connection to a longhaul flight.
To add to what chris63 wrote, there is now a Skyline train platform for C gates (previously B and C shared a stop) and the distance you have to walk will be shorter than when you last connected from a C gate. However, I agree that 1h10m is too tight for an A > C connection to a longhaul flight.
So I think we will go with the painful, yet safe, choice of leaving AMS on the 7:45 am flight. Thanks again, and I look forward to following the great conversations on FlyerTalk!
Nov 8, 2018, 7:06 am
#4947
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,848
Personally, I would never take the > 3 hours earlier flight from AMS when a 1h:10min connection at FRA is possible, valid and perfectly doable. Even with a slight delay of your incoming AMS flight you should make it to the C gate in time. But admittedly, there will be no time for shopping, excessive toilet visits, lounge visits etc - obviously, you need to go straight to the C gate. In my view this is a LH problem if incoming flight is late and you miss the flight to DEL; LH will have to rebook you to DEL (many options available) and maybe even have to pay EC Reg. 261/04 comp. for delay. In fact, if your inbound flight from AMS arrives on time and you nevertheless doesn't make it to the designated C gate in time, I expect LH to be reluctant to rebook you for free as there is sufficient time to make this connection. Nevertheless, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the tight connection rather than spending 4 hours in transit at FRA.
Nov 8, 2018, 7:41 am
#4948
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
Thanks to Chris63 and NewbieRunner for the helpful replies. I did not know FRA has added a new Skyline platform for C gates, so that will at least cut down on the amount of walking. I always thought that shared B/C platform was pretty useless for C gates. But even with this new platform, I am assuming we would still need to clear passport control and another security check before walking the final stretch to the outer C gates? Just checking today's arrival time for LH 989, which arrived 10 min late -- at gate A40, mind you! -- that would be an iffy proposition!
So I think we will go with the painful, yet safe, choice of leaving AMS on the 7:45 am flight. Thanks again, and I look forward to following the great conversations on FlyerTalk!
So I think we will go with the painful, yet safe, choice of leaving AMS on the 7:45 am flight. Thanks again, and I look forward to following the great conversations on FlyerTalk!
A few weeks ago I had a 55 min connection from an AMS-FRA flight which arrived at A23 to a flight departing from B47. I regretted booking this connection especially since the departure from AMS was delayed. Fortunately we arrived in FRA only a few minutes late and I was in row 2. By politely asking a few people to move including my seat neighbour I managed to get from A23 to B47 via the transfer tunnel and e-pass gate in about 12-13 minutes but I don’t want to do it again.
Nov 8, 2018, 9:20 am
#4949
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
Nov 8, 2018, 9:49 am
#4950
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Francisco
Programs: United 1K, Lifetime *G, KLM Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite + Others
Posts: 8
Personally, I would never take the > 3 hours earlier flight from AMS when a 1h:10min connection at FRA is possible, valid and perfectly doable. Even with a slight delay of your incoming AMS flight you should make it to the C gate in time. But admittedly, there will be no time for shopping, excessive toilet visits, lounge visits etc - obviously, you need to go straight to the C gate. In my view this is a LH problem if incoming flight is late and you miss the flight to DEL; LH will have to rebook you to DEL (many options available) and maybe even have to pay EC Reg. 261/04 comp. for delay. In fact, if your inbound flight from AMS arrives on time and you nevertheless doesn't make it to the designated C gate in time, I expect LH to be reluctant to rebook you for free as there is sufficient time to make this connection. Nevertheless, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the tight connection rather than spending 4 hours in transit at FRA.
Otherwise, have to wait until the next day, which is also not great.But like NewbieRunner mentioned, I don't relish the stress of that potentially tight connection. And if we do take the early flight, and I get upgraded to First Class, then at least I can use the First Class Terminal. I saw in another thread that First Class boarding card holders can take one guest and any family members traveling with them. If I read that correctly, would I be able to take both my wife and son with me to the FCT? I know the usual LH Lounge rules allow only one guest. Thank you for the help.
Last edited by Gocard69; Nov 8, 2018 at 10:00 am