Sad "achievement": 200th complaint filed with LH Group
Jan 31, 2019, 1:10 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
Sad "achievement": 200th complaint filed with LH Group
Obviously, individual cases or not necessarily of strategic importance. But may be still shed some light on the perceived strategy by its customers.
Today, I filed my 200th complaint with a LH Group airlines (LH, LX, OS, EW, etc.), over the last almost exactly 10 years since I not only started recording flights, but also complaints etc. I have take 242 flights with the LH Group airlines during the same period. This results in a 82.6% complaints ratio - which is quite stunning.
It's even more surprising, because I'm not really complaining a lot, at least in general. In the same period I have taken 348 IAG Group flights (BA, IB, etc.) which only resulted in 2 (two!) complaints. That's a ratio of 0.5%. As for KL/AF Group it's 108 flights and 1 complaint (0.9%). And for the large rest: 714 flights and 3 complaints (0.4%).
It's obvious that I fundamentally disagree with the LH Group strategy and product, which results in what I perceive as miserable service. Some of my colleagues say I'm just unlucky, because almost every time I travel with them something goes badly wrong ... Now personally, I'd rather believe in the stategy explanation.
Today, I filed my 200th complaint with a LH Group airlines (LH, LX, OS, EW, etc.), over the last almost exactly 10 years since I not only started recording flights, but also complaints etc. I have take 242 flights with the LH Group airlines during the same period. This results in a 82.6% complaints ratio - which is quite stunning.
It's even more surprising, because I'm not really complaining a lot, at least in general. In the same period I have taken 348 IAG Group flights (BA, IB, etc.) which only resulted in 2 (two!) complaints. That's a ratio of 0.5%. As for KL/AF Group it's 108 flights and 1 complaint (0.9%). And for the large rest: 714 flights and 3 complaints (0.4%).
It's obvious that I fundamentally disagree with the LH Group strategy and product, which results in what I perceive as miserable service. Some of my colleagues say I'm just unlucky, because almost every time I travel with them something goes badly wrong ... Now personally, I'd rather believe in the stategy explanation.
Jan 31, 2019, 3:12 pm
#2
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,635
And it is most suprising that you continue to fly LH group airlines... Why do you do this to yourself?
I had a similar complaint rate with AF and stopped flying them after maybe 10 flights.
I had a similar complaint rate with AF and stopped flying them after maybe 10 flights.
Last edited by curt; Jan 31, 2019 at 3:19 pm
Jan 31, 2019, 10:44 pm
#3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FLR
Programs: BA Gold, LH Sen, FB Gold
Posts: 504
Obviously, individual cases or not necessarily of strategic importance. But may be still shed some light on the perceived strategy by its customers.
Today, I filed my 200th complaint with a LH Group airlines (LH, LX, OS, EW, etc.), over the last almost exactly 10 years since I not only started recording flights, but also complaints etc. I have take 242 flights with the LH Group airlines during the same period. This results in a 82.6% complaints ratio - which is quite stunning.
It's even more surprising, because I'm not really complaining a lot, at least in general. In the same period I have taken 348 IAG Group flights (BA, IB, etc.) which only resulted in 2 (two!) complaints. That's a ratio of 0.5%. As for KL/AF Group it's 108 flights and 1 complaint (0.9%). And for the large rest: 714 flights and 3 complaints (0.4%).
It's obvious that I fundamentally disagree with the LH Group strategy and product, which results in what I perceive as miserable service. Some of my colleagues say I'm just unlucky, because almost every time I travel with them something goes badly wrong ... Now personally, I'd rather believe in the stategy explanation.
Today, I filed my 200th complaint with a LH Group airlines (LH, LX, OS, EW, etc.), over the last almost exactly 10 years since I not only started recording flights, but also complaints etc. I have take 242 flights with the LH Group airlines during the same period. This results in a 82.6% complaints ratio - which is quite stunning.
It's even more surprising, because I'm not really complaining a lot, at least in general. In the same period I have taken 348 IAG Group flights (BA, IB, etc.) which only resulted in 2 (two!) complaints. That's a ratio of 0.5%. As for KL/AF Group it's 108 flights and 1 complaint (0.9%). And for the large rest: 714 flights and 3 complaints (0.4%).
It's obvious that I fundamentally disagree with the LH Group strategy and product, which results in what I perceive as miserable service. Some of my colleagues say I'm just unlucky, because almost every time I travel with them something goes badly wrong ... Now personally, I'd rather believe in the stategy explanation.
Feb 1, 2019, 1:36 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,754
It's obvious that I fundamentally disagree with the LH Group strategy and product, which results in what I perceive as miserable service. Some of my colleagues say I'm just unlucky, because almost every time I travel with them something goes badly wrong ... Now personally, I'd rather believe in the stategy explanation.
Feb 1, 2019, 6:54 am
#5
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Programs: LX SEN, AFKL Platinum, BA Bronze,
Posts: 5,638
Feb 1, 2019, 12:07 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
@curt: Answering your question, why I continue flying them, is easy. I‘m based in Zurich and most of my travel is work related. In particular within Europe, there is often no efficient alternative, in particular after the demise of AB. But rest assured, where there are alternatives (e.g. to AMS, LHR/LCY, MAD, CDG) and for most longhaul travel, I avoid LH Group. You, curt, seem to be based in HAM, where it‘s relatively easy to avoid AF (which seems to be what you are avoiding).
@denhaagflyer: Most of my complaints are about poor handling of IRROPS, lost luggage, lost bookings, disregarded (paid) seat reservations, very lengthy food service on redeyes etc. There are also some complaints about seat comfort, but they are not that numerous, because it‘s obviously pointless to complain more than once about a specific product which has been installed and remains to be so.
@8420PR: I used to like (not love) LH Group, at least the traditional full service members. This has then changed into frustration, which is my current steady state. Obviously, not much is needed to push me into anger from there.
@MichielR: You have to ask the lurker if it‘s reciprocal ... I have lost SEN status after 12 years, because (a) I shifted as much of my business as possible to IAG and AFKL, and (b) moved the remaining *A mileage accrual activities to TK (which I also fly very often to Central Asia and Africa).
@denhaagflyer: Most of my complaints are about poor handling of IRROPS, lost luggage, lost bookings, disregarded (paid) seat reservations, very lengthy food service on redeyes etc. There are also some complaints about seat comfort, but they are not that numerous, because it‘s obviously pointless to complain more than once about a specific product which has been installed and remains to be so.
@8420PR: I used to like (not love) LH Group, at least the traditional full service members. This has then changed into frustration, which is my current steady state. Obviously, not much is needed to push me into anger from there.
@MichielR: You have to ask the lurker if it‘s reciprocal ... I have lost SEN status after 12 years, because (a) I shifted as much of my business as possible to IAG and AFKL, and (b) moved the remaining *A mileage accrual activities to TK (which I also fly very often to Central Asia and Africa).
Last edited by swiss_global; Feb 1, 2019 at 12:11 pm Reason: typos
Feb 1, 2019, 1:13 pm
#7
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Programs: LX SEN, AFKL Platinum, BA Bronze,
Posts: 5,638
Thanks for taking the time to answer comprehensively.
My own perspective is different as I am HON and mostly C flyer (you appear to fly a lot of Y) so I have no issues with seat reservations and for long haul I prefer LH/LX over TK, BA and KL (not AF though). Clearly as HON transfers at LH hubs are much easier than for example LHR or IST. Don’t get me wrong I don’t dislike CDG or AMS but they don’t beat the HON experience at MUC or FRA.
Bun that said I am surprised that LH would have let a long time SEN down so much with IRROPS and lost bags not correctly dealt with.
And finally I will not waste an opportunity to tell LH how poor I find their NEK - indeed I just providdd that feedback an hour ago in my response to a survey.
My own perspective is different as I am HON and mostly C flyer (you appear to fly a lot of Y) so I have no issues with seat reservations and for long haul I prefer LH/LX over TK, BA and KL (not AF though). Clearly as HON transfers at LH hubs are much easier than for example LHR or IST. Don’t get me wrong I don’t dislike CDG or AMS but they don’t beat the HON experience at MUC or FRA.
Bun that said I am surprised that LH would have let a long time SEN down so much with IRROPS and lost bags not correctly dealt with.
And finally I will not waste an opportunity to tell LH how poor I find their NEK - indeed I just providdd that feedback an hour ago in my response to a survey.
Feb 1, 2019, 8:50 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,642
Thanks for taking the time to answer comprehensively.
My own perspective is different as I am HON and mostly C flyer but they don’t beat the HON experience at MUC or FRA.
Bun that said I am surprised that LH would have let a long time SEN down so much with IRROPS and lost bags not correctly dealt with.
to tell LH how poor I find their NEK -
My own perspective is different as I am HON and mostly C flyer but they don’t beat the HON experience at MUC or FRA.
Bun that said I am surprised that LH would have let a long time SEN down so much with IRROPS and lost bags not correctly dealt with.
to tell LH how poor I find their NEK -
It is disappointing to see how poorly a SEN was treated so regularly
Feb 2, 2019, 3:39 pm
#10
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
Either I've been lucky or my expectations are low. I've had 320 flights on LH Group of airlines in the last 10 years and the number of times I might have sent complaints (but didn't) was probably half a dozen. I've been SEN during this period except for 2.5 years when I was HON.
Feb 2, 2019, 3:48 pm
#11
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
Out of curiosity do you get any resolution from your complaints?
i know in my line of work if we received 200 complaints over 10 years from one customer, frequent flyer or not, they’d be extremely easy to dismiss as a crank and a complainer
i know in my line of work if we received 200 complaints over 10 years from one customer, frequent flyer or not, they’d be extremely easy to dismiss as a crank and a complainer
Feb 2, 2019, 4:02 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,024
...Today, I filed my 200th complaint with a LH Group airlines (LH, LX, OS, EW, etc.), over the last almost exactly 10 years since I not only started recording flights, but also complaints etc.
I have take 242 flights with the LH Group airlines during the same period. This results in a 82.6% complaints ratio - which is quite stunning.
I have take 242 flights with the LH Group airlines during the same period. This results in a 82.6% complaints ratio - which is quite stunning.
Feb 2, 2019, 4:05 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 967
They must be bad to you, quite an astonishing hit rate. I have flown Air NZ over 1,000 times in the same time-period and complained about five times (again, irrops handling and flight cancellations). NZ are pretty tight on any compensation - I have never received any miles for my inconvenience. I have only flown LH about 130 times in that period and have never had a complaint.
And Flight Memory helped me with these statisitics.
And Flight Memory helped me with these statisitics.
Feb 3, 2019, 1:50 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
Well, I think this is legally not possible, at least not in Europe. Airlines operate under sort of a concession, which requires them to provide transportation. The limits are of course violence or abuse - but complaining is a legal and legitimate way of expressing disagreement.
Not really. Firstly, I'm mainly flying Iberia and they are very punctual (according to flightstats). Consequently, there are virtually no IRROPS (I can only remember one delay over 45mins with IB!), no missed connections, no need to rebook, etc. Also, IAG has very clear policies on reimbursements and if you are entitled, you will get the money back - always. Very clear policies also help in terms of the "friends & family" problem, e.g. I never lost a seat to the spouse of the captain on IAG, in contrast to LH Group. So there's usually simply no reason to complain about IAG.
Not really. Firstly, I'm mainly flying Iberia and they are very punctual (according to flightstats). Consequently, there are virtually no IRROPS (I can only remember one delay over 45mins with IB!), no missed connections, no need to rebook, etc. Also, IAG has very clear policies on reimbursements and if you are entitled, you will get the money back - always. Very clear policies also help in terms of the "friends & family" problem, e.g. I never lost a seat to the spouse of the captain on IAG, in contrast to LH Group. So there's usually simply no reason to complain about IAG.
Last edited by swiss_global; Feb 3, 2019 at 2:06 am