Flight delay - Incompetence of LH reservations saved by MIA airport staff
Nov 12, 2017, 1:19 pm
#16
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My 2 cents: LH telephone agents are much more constrained in rebooking than airport staff. Ultimately they seem to be bound by the ticket booking conditions whereas airport staff have much more flexibility.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but I can understand it may be a surprise to US passengers, as US airline call centres do seem to have a lot of flexibility.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but I can understand it may be a surprise to US passengers, as US airline call centres do seem to have a lot of flexibility.
Nov 12, 2017, 3:15 pm
#17
Join Date: Mar 2008
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To my view, OP was right to be preemptive, based on the information that was available to him, if his connection time in MUC was tight. To avoid the risk of not getting his connection in MUC, he came early to the airport and made sure he could complete his journey was planed: not much disruption for the airport staff, and certainly less disruption than a missed connection.
I would have done the same.
Nov 12, 2017, 4:31 pm
#18
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The OP asked to be rerouted to MIA-FRA-MUC. The *earliest* the OP could have arrived at MUC on that itinerary would have been 11:10 scheduled arrival time (LH463 + LH100), which would mean that he would arrive *after* LH461 even if LH461 had been delayed by 50 minutes. For the record, LH100 arrived at 11:13.
Not only was the OP asking to be rebooked to a routing with an additional stop, he was asking for an itinerary that would have delayed him more compared to his original flight even with the initially estimated delay. That is neither preemptive nor proactive. That's simply asking for trouble.
Since the MCT in MUC is 45 minutes and he asked to be put on an itinerary that would have had him arrive at 11:10 at the earliest, it is reasonable to assume that the MUC-xxx flight did not leave before 11:55. Even if the delay for LH461 had remained at 50 minutes, he would have been better off by staying on that flight compared to asking to be rerouted via FRA to MUC.
The OP should be grateful that the phone agent didn't rebook him MIA-FRA-MUC-xxx because it would have caused a shorter connection in MUC compared to MIA-MUC even with the initial delay, but instead the OP accuses the phone agent of "incompetence".
Last edited by DoTheBartMan; Nov 12, 2017 at 5:58 pm
Nov 12, 2017, 7:29 pm
#19
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Nov 12, 2017, 7:32 pm
#20
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Personally, it's disturbing to see the level of personal hostility in this thread. While we can disagree with the manner in which we would each tackle a particular flight issue, and moderators are, of course, the official determiners of what's permitted and not, are we really at the point that it's socially acceptable in this forum to all but push it over the cliff's edge in implying that another FTer is incompetent? Even barring any moderator intervention, I personally would wish for a better climate here.
Nov 12, 2017, 7:48 pm
#21
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- Original itinerary: LH461, MIA-MUC, scheduled arrival 10:15, estimated arrival 11:00, good chance of the delay being smaller because of customary padding of flight times for long haul flights.
vs.
- Itinerary requested by OP: LH463 + LH100 (or other flight from FRA), MIA-FRA-MUC, scheduled arrival 11:10 (or later, depending on which FRA-MUC flight the OP requested) assuming that the connection in Frankfurt works out. No knowledge about the odds of the FRA-MUC flight being on time.
I know which one I would have chosen.
Personally, it's disturbing to see the level of personal hostility in this thread. While we can disagree with the manner in which we would each tackle a particular flight issue, and moderators are, of course, the official determiners of what's permitted and not, are we really at the point that it's socially acceptable in this forum to all but push it over the cliff's edge in implying that another FTer is incompetent?
Last edited by DoTheBartMan; Nov 12, 2017 at 7:53 pm
Nov 13, 2017, 12:31 am
#22
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Indeed.
- Original itinerary: LH461, MIA-MUC, scheduled arrival 10:15, estimated arrival 11:00, good chance of the delay being smaller because of customary padding of flight times for long haul flights.
vs.
- Itinerary requested by OP: LH463 + LH100 (or other flight from FRA), MIA-FRA-MUC, scheduled arrival 11:10 (or later, depending on which FRA-MUC flight the OP requested) assuming that the connection in Frankfurt works out. No knowledge about the odds of the FRA-MUC flight being on time.
I know which one I would have chosen.
If the OP hadn’t come out guns blazing and accused the LH phone agent(s) of being incompetent, the tone of the replies would probably have been different. The OP set the tone.
- Original itinerary: LH461, MIA-MUC, scheduled arrival 10:15, estimated arrival 11:00, good chance of the delay being smaller because of customary padding of flight times for long haul flights.
vs.
- Itinerary requested by OP: LH463 + LH100 (or other flight from FRA), MIA-FRA-MUC, scheduled arrival 11:10 (or later, depending on which FRA-MUC flight the OP requested) assuming that the connection in Frankfurt works out. No knowledge about the odds of the FRA-MUC flight being on time.
I know which one I would have chosen.
If the OP hadn’t come out guns blazing and accused the LH phone agent(s) of being incompetent, the tone of the replies would probably have been different. The OP set the tone.
For that reason I asked in my message, if the LH phone agents or the OP were incompetent. I didn't choose the expression "incompetent". I was the OP in the heading of the threat.
Nov 13, 2017, 5:11 am
#23
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To my view, OP was right to be preemptive, based on the information that was available to him, if his connection time in MUC was tight. To avoid the risk of not getting his connection in MUC, he came early to the airport and made sure he could complete his journey was planed: not much disruption for the airport staff, and certainly less disruption than a missed connection.
Nov 13, 2017, 8:36 am
#24
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My 2 cents: LH telephone agents are much more constrained in rebooking than airport staff. Ultimately they seem to be bound by the ticket booking conditions whereas airport staff have much more flexibility.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but I can understand it may be a surprise to US passengers, as US airline call centres do seem to have a lot of flexibility.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but I can understand it may be a surprise to US passengers, as US airline call centres do seem to have a lot of flexibility.
Those agents may have the flexibility to make the requested changes, but that doesn't mean they can accomplish it in less than an hour and without needing to involve supervisors, the ticketing desk, and a few more people. That is incompetence.
Nov 13, 2017, 5:33 pm
#25
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I'm trying, after 15 years here, to sincerely determine again what standard of decorum we should strive for.
Nov 14, 2017, 1:40 am
#26
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The problem is that each passenger takes up however much time he thinks is necessary to solve his problem, without regard to other passengers. The fact that this negatively impacts all passengers, sometimes the passenger calling, is lost on 99.9% of the traveling public.
OP's over-dramatized post simply points to a well-known fact, he is GS and therefore an experienced traveler, that IRROPS such as this, is best accomplished at the airport and may well be deferred to the arrival airport for all of the reasons others have pointed to.
Had it become necessary to reroute OP with an extra segment, any airport agent could have done this for OP and that agent could also have rebooked the later onward connection if the xMUC was to be a misconnect.
The reason for this is simple. The airport agents have a better sense of what is really going on. LH does not have multiple flights at the same time and thus when a departure is delayed, everyone knows what is going on. They also know the rough met and routing situation and have better sense of whether the passenger will make his connection and the consequences of a misconnect.
As it happens, OP's aircraft was delayed by 2 minutes on arrival at MUC. Because OP chose not to provide the details of his onward flight, we can't know what that 2 minutes meant. But, it is a reasonable inference that there is a 2 minute tolerance in the schedule of an experienced traveler. Moreover, experienced travelers are well aware that flight schedules are padded to accommodate routine delays and this one was as it turned 55 minutes into -2 minutes, thus making up 53 minutes between the push and arrival.
Thus, he tied up aircraft staff, had his luggage pulled (presuming checked luggage) from carts ready to load and was rerouted when there was likely no need of it.
Methinks LH staff did this to rid themselves of someone nattering at them, so that they could help passengers with real problems.
OP's over-dramatized post simply points to a well-known fact, he is GS and therefore an experienced traveler, that IRROPS such as this, is best accomplished at the airport and may well be deferred to the arrival airport for all of the reasons others have pointed to.
Had it become necessary to reroute OP with an extra segment, any airport agent could have done this for OP and that agent could also have rebooked the later onward connection if the xMUC was to be a misconnect.
The reason for this is simple. The airport agents have a better sense of what is really going on. LH does not have multiple flights at the same time and thus when a departure is delayed, everyone knows what is going on. They also know the rough met and routing situation and have better sense of whether the passenger will make his connection and the consequences of a misconnect.
As it happens, OP's aircraft was delayed by 2 minutes on arrival at MUC. Because OP chose not to provide the details of his onward flight, we can't know what that 2 minutes meant. But, it is a reasonable inference that there is a 2 minute tolerance in the schedule of an experienced traveler. Moreover, experienced travelers are well aware that flight schedules are padded to accommodate routine delays and this one was as it turned 55 minutes into -2 minutes, thus making up 53 minutes between the push and arrival.
Thus, he tied up aircraft staff, had his luggage pulled (presuming checked luggage) from carts ready to load and was rerouted when there was likely no need of it.
Methinks LH staff did this to rid themselves of someone nattering at them, so that they could help passengers with real problems.
Nov 14, 2017, 1:43 am
#27
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Luckily for the OP, he's a GS, so he most likely get very good service from the GS phone agents. If the OP wants to see true incompetence, try being a UA General Member and have to deal with the agents at the UA call center for the "common people".
Those agents may have the flexibility to make the requested changes, but that doesn't mean they can accomplish it in less than an hour and without needing to involve supervisors, the ticketing desk, and a few more people. That is incompetence.
Those agents may have the flexibility to make the requested changes, but that doesn't mean they can accomplish it in less than an hour and without needing to involve supervisors, the ticketing desk, and a few more people. That is incompetence.
Nov 14, 2017, 1:46 am
#28
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I am sure nobody could tell you reliably that the scheduled arrival time is 11am. You performed this extrapolation from the planned departure time.
You only could be told and you only could find on any flight specific IT tool, that the departure time was going to be delayed by 50 minutes.
Nov 14, 2017, 3:18 am
#29
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No.
I am sure nobody could tell you reliably that the scheduled arrival time is 11am. You performed this extrapolation from the planned departure time.
You only could be told and you only could find on any flight specific IT tool, that the departure time was going to be delayed by 50 minutes.
I am sure nobody could tell you reliably that the scheduled arrival time is 11am. You performed this extrapolation from the planned departure time.
You only could be told and you only could find on any flight specific IT tool, that the departure time was going to be delayed by 50 minutes.
Nov 14, 2017, 6:49 am
#30
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I was referring to the service you receive when you deal with UA as a UA GS member. If that is the service level you expected from LH, of course you'd think they're "incompetent". But that is setting your expectations too high, IMO.
Why did you request to be routed MIA-FRA-MUC, a routing that would have had you arrive at MUC at 11:10 at the earliest, assuming that the FRA-MUC flight would operate on time? Even if LH461 hadn't arrived until 11:00, the phone agent did you a favor by not routing you through FRA since that would have delayed you further. Yet you think that the agent was "incompetent"...
Last edited by DoTheBartMan; Nov 14, 2017 at 4:17 pm