offloaded [consequences of denied boarding due to intoxication]
May 24, 2014, 3:09 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dubai
Programs: EK Gold, FB Silver
Posts: 318
offloaded [consequences of denied boarding due to intoxication]
Hello,
A few days ago I flew from the Middle East to Frankfurt with LH. After checkin, immigration and security check was no problem, we were on time at the gate for boarding. There we were asked to wait until everyone else has boarded the plane after which they told us that we would be offloaded because we seemed to be intoxicated. We did drink alcohol before the flight. It was (and is) a shameful experience but we did not cause any troubles or problems. We got onto another flight a few hours later (not LH) and arrived safely home. I am worried that LH would put us on a black list or no fly list. Do you think this is a possibility?
A few days ago I flew from the Middle East to Frankfurt with LH. After checkin, immigration and security check was no problem, we were on time at the gate for boarding. There we were asked to wait until everyone else has boarded the plane after which they told us that we would be offloaded because we seemed to be intoxicated. We did drink alcohol before the flight. It was (and is) a shameful experience but we did not cause any troubles or problems. We got onto another flight a few hours later (not LH) and arrived safely home. I am worried that LH would put us on a black list or no fly list. Do you think this is a possibility?
May 24, 2014, 5:14 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, SQ PPS Solitaire
Posts: 3,599
No, they won't put you on any such list. The no-fly-list is a US driven government tool and that's for terrorists and not drunks.
Unruly passengers might get a letter that they are not welcome on future flights but that's pretty difficult to enforce.
LH might end your membership in M&M if you have seriously harassed staff or other passengers but from your description they just thought you are not fit to fly.
Unruly passengers might get a letter that they are not welcome on future flights but that's pretty difficult to enforce.
LH might end your membership in M&M if you have seriously harassed staff or other passengers but from your description they just thought you are not fit to fly.
May 24, 2014, 3:20 pm
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Unlikely that LH does anything if your report doesn't leave out any "bad" details, e.g., were you polite and non-harassing?
Cause trouble and you may receive a letter suggesting that you might be happier on another carrier.
Cause trouble and you may receive a letter suggesting that you might be happier on another carrier.
May 24, 2014, 5:21 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dubai
Programs: EK Gold, FB Silver
Posts: 318
I paid the other flight out of my pocket, obviously.
We did do difficult (and loud) at check in as the flight as delayed and would most likely not make our connection in FRA. But nothing offensive or personnel. And they let us through all the way to the gate with BPs with seat assigments... The report was in Arabic and I don't know what exactly they wrote as to how much or if we were found to be harassing.
Anyhow, I totally got what was coming to us and will never touch a glass before boarding a plane again, but as I understand from here, a letter from LH is the maximum penalty I should probably expect... But no future flight restrictions?? Let's hope so...
We did do difficult (and loud) at check in as the flight as delayed and would most likely not make our connection in FRA. But nothing offensive or personnel. And they let us through all the way to the gate with BPs with seat assigments... The report was in Arabic and I don't know what exactly they wrote as to how much or if we were found to be harassing.
Anyhow, I totally got what was coming to us and will never touch a glass before boarding a plane again, but as I understand from here, a letter from LH is the maximum penalty I should probably expect... But no future flight restrictions?? Let's hope so...
Last edited by gorbatzjov; May 24, 2014 at 5:28 pm
May 24, 2014, 7:00 pm
#7
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NCL and LBA
Programs: BD*G, BAGold, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 3,269
I paid the other flight out of my pocket, obviously.
We did do difficult (and loud) at check in as the flight as delayed and would most likely not make our connection in FRA. But nothing offensive or personnel. And they let us through all the way to the gate with BPs with seat assigments... The report was in Arabic and I don't know what exactly they wrote as to how much or if we were found to be harassing.
Anyhow, I totally got what was coming to us and will never touch a glass before boarding a plane again, but as I understand from here, a letter from LH is the maximum penalty I should probably expect... But no future flight restrictions?? Let's hope so...
We did do difficult (and loud) at check in as the flight as delayed and would most likely not make our connection in FRA. But nothing offensive or personnel. And they let us through all the way to the gate with BPs with seat assigments... The report was in Arabic and I don't know what exactly they wrote as to how much or if we were found to be harassing.
Anyhow, I totally got what was coming to us and will never touch a glass before boarding a plane again, but as I understand from here, a letter from LH is the maximum penalty I should probably expect... But no future flight restrictions?? Let's hope so...
You will be fine, don't worry. As long as you didn't assault anyone or do anything unsafe you are okay!
May 25, 2014, 9:16 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Does anyone think that auntie LH pulled a mid-sized scam here?
The OP et al were allowed to board. None of the GAs or crew had any objection.
The whole think reeks like a late revenge of the check-in personnel who was incapable and/or unwilling to assist the OP in their efforts to catch a connection and did not appreciate being told so.
I assume the OP is back in Belgium and LH did not collect any evidence of the intoxication. I would hence try to hold them liable for the delay and the additional cost incurred.
Write them, deny that you were unfit to fly, blame the check in agent for their actions and make specific demands what you expect as compensation. Don't forget 261 compensation for the IDB!
LH will deny the demands. But at least the additional ticket and the delay compensation you should be able to get in mediation. In Belgium you will also not have the problem of manipulated German courts who rule in favour of LH per default.
The OP et al were allowed to board. None of the GAs or crew had any objection.
The whole think reeks like a late revenge of the check-in personnel who was incapable and/or unwilling to assist the OP in their efforts to catch a connection and did not appreciate being told so.
I assume the OP is back in Belgium and LH did not collect any evidence of the intoxication. I would hence try to hold them liable for the delay and the additional cost incurred.
Write them, deny that you were unfit to fly, blame the check in agent for their actions and make specific demands what you expect as compensation. Don't forget 261 compensation for the IDB!
LH will deny the demands. But at least the additional ticket and the delay compensation you should be able to get in mediation. In Belgium you will also not have the problem of manipulated German courts who rule in favour of LH per default.
May 25, 2014, 6:16 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
And I explained my reasoning. OP being remove post factum from plane without an actual hiccup on the plane sounds very fishy to me.
I'd definitely had mediation or s SCC have a look at that.
May 26, 2014, 1:21 am
#13
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SIN (LEJ once a year)
Programs: SQ, LH, BA, IHG Diamond AMB, HH Gold, SLH Indulged, Accor Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,739
Lots of liquor and flying don't mix well in general and in the ME sensitivity runs a bit higher. You did the right thing by not causing more issues at your departure point and owning up to the fact here. There should be no issues with flying on LH in the future as others have pointed out.
May 26, 2014, 1:27 am
#14
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,455
My feeling: I've seen it that apparently drunken people were allowed to board many times (on LH, but also other LH group carriers) - but usually they were single travellers.
Probably LH is more afraid of letting intoxicated groups travel. Just a feeling, but for a single traveller, they probably expect him/her to fall asleep rather soon, or just be quiet, while for a group (that maybe even wants to continue the party in the air) it might be much harder, thus against groups of clearly drunk people, they might want to deny them boarding more easily.
Also, isn't LH actually responsible to rebook you onto another flight if they feel you're intoxicated? Otherwise, in any oversold flight, they could just deny any SEN/*G/FTL (in economy) class the boarding, stating they drunk too much in the lounge - and without even having to fly them home later? I doubt that can be..
Plus, what's "too much" anyway? 5 beers? 10 glas of wine?
A german guy, used to drink, weighting 100kg and 1.95m surely can drink some beers (say, 2 liter) without getting too drunk to fly. A slim woman of 1.60m and never drinking otherwise might pass out already.
So any decision will always be subjective based on the GA.
Probably LH is more afraid of letting intoxicated groups travel. Just a feeling, but for a single traveller, they probably expect him/her to fall asleep rather soon, or just be quiet, while for a group (that maybe even wants to continue the party in the air) it might be much harder, thus against groups of clearly drunk people, they might want to deny them boarding more easily.
Also, isn't LH actually responsible to rebook you onto another flight if they feel you're intoxicated? Otherwise, in any oversold flight, they could just deny any SEN/*G/FTL (in economy) class the boarding, stating they drunk too much in the lounge - and without even having to fly them home later? I doubt that can be..
Plus, what's "too much" anyway? 5 beers? 10 glas of wine?
A german guy, used to drink, weighting 100kg and 1.95m surely can drink some beers (say, 2 liter) without getting too drunk to fly. A slim woman of 1.60m and never drinking otherwise might pass out already.
So any decision will always be subjective based on the GA.
May 26, 2014, 1:55 am
#15
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 948
My feeling: I've seen it that apparently drunken people were allowed to board many times (on LH, but also other LH group carriers) - but usually they were single travellers.
Probably LH is more afraid of letting intoxicated groups travel. Just a feeling, but for a single traveller, they probably expect him/her to fall asleep rather soon, or just be quiet, while for a group (that maybe even wants to continue the party in the air) it might be much harder, thus against groups of clearly drunk people, they might want to deny them boarding more easily.
Also, isn't LH actually responsible to rebook you onto another flight if they feel you're intoxicated? Otherwise, in any oversold flight, they could just deny any SEN/*G/FTL (in economy) class the boarding, stating they drunk too much in the lounge - and without even having to fly them home later? I doubt that can be..
Plus, what's "too much" anyway? 5 beers? 10 glas of wine?
A german guy, used to drink, weighting 100kg and 1.95m surely can drink some beers (say, 2 liter) without getting too drunk to fly. A slim woman of 1.60m and never drinking otherwise might pass out already.
So any decision will always be subjective based on the GA.
Probably LH is more afraid of letting intoxicated groups travel. Just a feeling, but for a single traveller, they probably expect him/her to fall asleep rather soon, or just be quiet, while for a group (that maybe even wants to continue the party in the air) it might be much harder, thus against groups of clearly drunk people, they might want to deny them boarding more easily.
Also, isn't LH actually responsible to rebook you onto another flight if they feel you're intoxicated? Otherwise, in any oversold flight, they could just deny any SEN/*G/FTL (in economy) class the boarding, stating they drunk too much in the lounge - and without even having to fly them home later? I doubt that can be..
Plus, what's "too much" anyway? 5 beers? 10 glas of wine?
A german guy, used to drink, weighting 100kg and 1.95m surely can drink some beers (say, 2 liter) without getting too drunk to fly. A slim woman of 1.60m and never drinking otherwise might pass out already.
So any decision will always be subjective based on the GA.
There are some guildes.
Originally Posted by IATA
Green Behaviors
Sociable
Relaxed
Comfortable
Happy
Yellow Behaviors
Reduced inhibitions
Impaired judgment
Talking or laughing louder than normal
Being overly friendly
Arguing or baiting
Increased use of foul language
Increasing alcohol consumption
Careless with money
Red Behaviors
Moving in slow motion
Needing time to respond to questions
Glassy-eyed
Losing train of thought
Making irrational statements
Spilling drinks
Walking awkwardly
Stumbling or falling down
Unable to sit up straight
[...]
However, if a group
demonstrates concerning behavior, special efforts could be made to monitor their behavior from the
time of check-in to the time they board the flight. It might be necessary to communicate the unruly
behavior policy to the group leader and for the airline to ask for their cooperation to ensure
adherence to the policy
Sociable
Relaxed
Comfortable
Happy
Yellow Behaviors
Reduced inhibitions
Impaired judgment
Talking or laughing louder than normal
Being overly friendly
Arguing or baiting
Increased use of foul language
Increasing alcohol consumption
Careless with money
Red Behaviors
Moving in slow motion
Needing time to respond to questions
Glassy-eyed
Losing train of thought
Making irrational statements
Spilling drinks
Walking awkwardly
Stumbling or falling down
Unable to sit up straight
[...]
However, if a group
demonstrates concerning behavior, special efforts could be made to monitor their behavior from the
time of check-in to the time they board the flight. It might be necessary to communicate the unruly
behavior policy to the group leader and for the airline to ask for their cooperation to ensure
adherence to the policy