Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22608858)
Another great example of brilliant Aviation Management; making a profitable flight even more profitable by employing a cheaper aircraft and working with capacity benefitting the change even more.
And for the poor souls (with a certain affection for airline food) there is TK (and since a few months now, apparently also...Air Serbia) The network management in recent months is simply spectacular and I am happy to see that there are no (well, okay..., hardly any) sacred cows anymore. Hence, the prof. biz traveler prefers Lufty and a good Turkish or Serbian restaurant at home on the weekend. Reminds me a bit of the good old Fairy Ultra commercial. While the biz pro is already at home enjoying Turkish food in a good restaurant, the lame duck is still consuming Turkish food at a TK lounge in IST. The really poor soul has to overnight in Belgrade. :D OTOH, if the C cabin if full of people who don't really care about the price, and there isn't a decent direct alternative, LH will sell the space (and I suspect that is the case on this route). In theory that opens the opportunity for a competitor to compete with better product, but some routes are too thin to even fight over...@:-) |
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22608858)
Another great example of brilliant Aviation Management;
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22608858)
making a profitable flight even more profitable by employing a cheaper aircraft and working with capacity benefitting the change even more.
Here is my take: Another great example of desperate Aviation Management; making an unprofitable flight profitable on the short term by employing a cheaper aircraft that will dent yield in the long run. |
Originally Posted by N1003U
(Post 22609309)
OTOH, if the C cabin if full of people who don't really care about the price, and there isn't a decent direct alternative, LH will sell the space (and I suspect that is the case on this route). In theory that opens the opportunity for a competitor to compete with better product, but some routes are too thin to even fight over...@:-)
If LH cannot make it work ex Germany, hardly anyone can make it work, even with a strong partner less ruthless than Lufty. Not surprisingly, hardly any route is picked up by the competition after LH pulled out. If you exclude routes that are being operated due to political reasons, in Europe many routes to/from BRU are among those, it is even worse. |
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22608858)
Another great example of brilliant Aviation Management; making a profitable flight even more profitable by employing a cheaper aircraft and working with capacity benefitting the change even more.
Otherwise, what would there be to stop LH from NEKing the long-haul fleet as well? After all, it would save the traveller the hassle of connecting somewhere else.
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22608858)
Hence, the prof. biz traveler prefers Lufty and a good Turkish or Serbian restaurant at home on the weekend.
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22609376)
If LH cannot make it work ex Germany, hardly anyone can make it work, even with a strong partner less ruthless than Lufty.
Key Asian markets send their regards, by the way. |
Originally Posted by GBM.flights
(Post 22609349)
How do you know it is currently profitable?
Originally Posted by gojko88
(Post 22609427)
Key Asian markets send their regards, by the way.
|
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22609488)
Oh boy, now the naysayers are focussing on prime markets [...]
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22609488)
[...]and pretend that even oil markets and key destinations in Asia operated in a duopoly (at best) are not profitable.
Still my take: LH is cutting capacity by ~15%. Not selling F. (Signs of trouble) Miserable seat for the distance, no IFE in C/Y. Repeat customers for that experience are either highly price sensitive or masochists. The yield will go down long term. Let's see when the reductions/cuts will arrive. |
PNR was cut because the contract with Privatair was reduced. The yield was fine. SGN is part of the greater S.E.Asia disaster.
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Frankfurt – Osaka Kansai – Tokyo Narita Planned service consolidation for Osaka and Tokyo Narita service will operates until 19JUL14 (from FRA) only. From 20JUL14, both airports receive dedicated nonstop service once again
30MAR14 – 19JUL14 LH740 FRA1320 – 0710+1KIX0810+1 – 0925+1NRT 744 D LH741 NRT1055 – 1215KIX1315 – 1800FRA 744 D eff 20JUL14 Frankfurt – Osaka Kansai LH740 FRA1320 – 0710+1KIX 744 D LH741 KIX1005 – 1450FRA 744 D Frankfurt – Tokyo Narita LH710 FRA1355 – 0750+1NRT 744 D LH711 NRT0945 – 1425FRA 744 D 3 daily flights between FRA and Japan, all on 747s :eek: |
Originally Posted by OsakaWino
(Post 22613676)
3 daily flights between FRA and Japan, all on 747s :eek:
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Originally Posted by malmostoso
(Post 22613695)
Also to HND? I wouldn't mind trying that out once.
The big surprise is returning NRT to a direct flight. Both ANA and JAL recently announced that they would be switching their LHR flights from NRT to HND with the opening of the new slots at HND. I would think that a 747 each for KIX and NRT would be a lot of excess capacity. Loading a bunch of package tour passengers at NRT with a stopover at KIX seemed to make more sense. |
Originally Posted by OsakaWino
(Post 22613740)
Yes, HND will be the prize route, especially after they switch to the 748, which is just pending gov approval. I imagine 90% of people buying airfare only tickets would rather use HND than NRT.
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Originally Posted by GBM.flights
(Post 22609707)
So you have no evidence. I understand.
Originally Posted by GBM.flights
(Post 22609707)
Pointe Noire or Ho Chi Minh fit that description. Indian destinations (see wiki post) were operated in duopoly as well to Germany. They were all cut. So LH did cut profitable routes in your opinion?
Originally Posted by GBM.flights
(Post 22609707)
Still my take:
LH is cutting capacity by ~15%. Not selling F. (Signs of trouble) Miserable seat for the distance, no IFE in C/Y. Repeat customers for that experience are either highly price sensitive or masochists. The yield will go down long term. Let's see when the reductions/cuts will arrive. In my book, these people are called pros, not surprisingly you find a lot of pros on Lufty whereas you find a lot of leisure travelers, sun seekers, bargain hunters, airline food aficionados on other airlines. |
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 22609376)
Not surprisingly, hardly any route is picked up by the competition after LH pulled out. If you exclude routes that are being operated due to political reasons, in Europe many routes to/from BRU are among those, it is even worse.
|
Originally Posted by OsakaWino
(Post 22613676)
3 daily flights between FRA and Japan, all on 747s :eek:
Originally Posted by malmostoso
(Post 22613695)
Also to HND? I wouldn't mind trying that out once.
One disadvantage of a later arrival is a later departure from HND for those like myself with a connecting European flight from FRA.
Originally Posted by OsakaWino
(Post 22613740)
Yes, HND will be the prize route, especially after they switch to the 748, which is just pending gov approval. I imagine 90% of people buying airfare only tickets would rather use HND than NRT. And that the majority of those on package tours where the airport is not guaranteed will be routed out of NRT.
The big surprise is returning NRT to a direct flight. Both ANA and JAL recently announced that they would be switching their LHR flights from NRT to HND I would think that a 747 each for KIX and NRT would be a lot of excess capacity. Loading a bunch of package tour passengers at NRT with a stopover at KIX seemed to make more sense. Since all 747s will be converted to two-class aircraft within the next year or so, they will have to find an alternative unless they plan to turn some (FRA-NRT? FRA-KIX?) into two-class services. |
Originally Posted by NewbieRunner
(Post 22614084)
Don't forget FRA-NGO on 344 which may permanently become two-class in due course.
Remember that FRA-NRT was served by the A380 with 526 seats for a few years. 2x747 will be between 660 and 704 passengers depending on the configuration. 748 + 747 will be between 660 and 738 passengers but still fewer than 380 + 747. Since all 747s will be converted to two-class aircraft within the next year or so, they will have to find an alternative unless they plan to turn some (FRA-NRT? FRA-KIX?) into two-class services. I had assumed they had discontinued the 380 because they couldn't fill it, but now they'll have 150 to 200 more seats in/out of Tokyo than when the were using the 380. And they had already increased capacity from KIX from the 340 they were once using to the 747. They must be looking for a lot more passengers ex Europe, since they are definitely not going to find them in Japan. I imagine ANA and JAL depend a lot more on Japanese customers, which is probably why they've dumped all their 747s and are using smaller planes. Their might be a short-term increase in Japanese pax with all the baby boomers retiring, but the rapidly shrinking population is going to have a long-term effect. At least for pax ex Japan, they could easily do away with F from KIX, and maybe even from NRT, since they'll have 1st class out of HND on the 748. |
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