LH sending out warning letters to account maximisers!
Jul 12, 2011, 2:37 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,729
Jul 12, 2011, 2:40 am
#17
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PDX/AUS
Programs: AA-UA-AS IHG-SPG-Carlson
Posts: 4,562
Jul 12, 2011, 2:59 am
#18
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,513
Jul 12, 2011, 4:08 am
#19
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 598
Travel agencies using their own card for this are violating IATA Resolution 890 which says that they are not allowed to do this. For some years now LH is sending out letters to them and is cancelling these accounts (mostly with millions of miles). Rumour has it that the top ten mileage accounts in Germany are all travel-agencies....
Jul 12, 2011, 4:31 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: MUC (home), DUS (office), XXX (customer)
Programs: LH, AB, SPG, CC, Sixt, EC
Posts: 6,334
Travel agencies using their own card for this are violating IATA Resolution 890 which says that they are not allowed to do this. For some years now LH is sending out letters to them and is cancelling these accounts (mostly with millions of miles). Rumour has it that the top ten mileage accounts in Germany are all travel-agencies....
Do it once in a while, build up a nice amount but don't exaggerate. Greed always gets you in trouble 
Not that I approve, just sayin...
Jul 12, 2011, 4:33 am
#21
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,513
Travel agencies using their own card for this are violating IATA Resolution 890 which says that they are not allowed to do this. For some years now LH is sending out letters to them and is cancelling these accounts (mostly with millions of miles). Rumour has it that the top ten mileage accounts in Germany are all travel-agencies....
Jul 12, 2011, 5:00 am
#22
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,182
Travel agencies using their own card for this are violating IATA Resolution 890 which says that they are not allowed to do this. For some years now LH is sending out letters to them and is cancelling these accounts (mostly with millions of miles). Rumour has it that the top ten mileage accounts in Germany are all travel-agencies....
Jul 12, 2011, 5:39 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: Migros Cumulus Platinum Hero
Posts: 1,628
No I haven't done such things, but I don't see why LH should have a right to complain:
- they earn money with every mile sold
- they should control the compliance with the rules at the time of the registration
- the newspaper is happy as they can advertise a larger subscription base
- ...
- they earn money with every mile sold
- they should control the compliance with the rules at the time of the registration
- the newspaper is happy as they can advertise a larger subscription base
- ...
Jul 12, 2011, 5:43 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Stuck on this planet - mainly in STR and LAX
Posts: 5,019
First of all i love all these promotions, miles for subscriptions, miles for money transfer etc. The more the better.
But i also completely understand that LH can set limits (like the number of subscriptions per account etc) as long as these limitations are not against the law. It does not matter if the limitations are fair, reasonable or if people believe they make sense or not. They are allowed to do this.
If they find out that accounts collected more miles than the restriction did allow they could take the additional miles away. They did not but sent out a a warning letter. They have the right to do that. I believe that is also pretty reasonable - and better than taking the miles away. I would be pissed if i had gotten such a letter, but that is a different issue.
But i also completely understand that LH can set limits (like the number of subscriptions per account etc) as long as these limitations are not against the law. It does not matter if the limitations are fair, reasonable or if people believe they make sense or not. They are allowed to do this.
If they find out that accounts collected more miles than the restriction did allow they could take the additional miles away. They did not but sent out a a warning letter. They have the right to do that. I believe that is also pretty reasonable - and better than taking the miles away. I would be pissed if i had gotten such a letter, but that is a different issue.
Jul 12, 2011, 5:46 am
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: Migros Cumulus Platinum Hero
Posts: 1,628
If I would have received such a letter i immediately would have send it back to the management level of LH. They should take immediate action against the person who has signed this letter due to the following:
1.) Selling miles to promotion partners, hotel groups and car rental agencies is a great source of revenue income for LH. So trying to stop this is like rejecting a revenue passenger on an empty flight.
2.) Furthermore there are many people out there who are not gold/silver members and face every 3 years the deduction of old and unused miles. This is a further source of income due to the fact that the paid price for the miles can be cashed in and nor product/service is delivered instead.
3.) Even the upgrade award from M->C generates revenue. At first through deduction of the equivalent miles (and therefore from profit centre M&M& to the passenger department) and secondly due to the fact that people copuldn´t use the cheapest booking class (e.g. when they are on vacation). So this upgrade award generates the upselling within Eco class and then the award miles revenue. Furthermore they get free space in Eco which they may need during peak holiday weeks.
4.) ANY mile collected on Miles&More is a valuable source of information. If someone collects MANY hotel miles without flying there - marketing should investigate. and so forth..
So if this letter has been really sent the only way is to send it back to LH so that they can fix the staff problem behind.
1.) Selling miles to promotion partners, hotel groups and car rental agencies is a great source of revenue income for LH. So trying to stop this is like rejecting a revenue passenger on an empty flight.
2.) Furthermore there are many people out there who are not gold/silver members and face every 3 years the deduction of old and unused miles. This is a further source of income due to the fact that the paid price for the miles can be cashed in and nor product/service is delivered instead.
3.) Even the upgrade award from M->C generates revenue. At first through deduction of the equivalent miles (and therefore from profit centre M&M& to the passenger department) and secondly due to the fact that people copuldn´t use the cheapest booking class (e.g. when they are on vacation). So this upgrade award generates the upselling within Eco class and then the award miles revenue. Furthermore they get free space in Eco which they may need during peak holiday weeks.
4.) ANY mile collected on Miles&More is a valuable source of information. If someone collects MANY hotel miles without flying there - marketing should investigate. and so forth..
So if this letter has been really sent the only way is to send it back to LH so that they can fix the staff problem behind.
problem is that lh management would not even read such letters. they live in their own odd world.
Jul 12, 2011, 5:52 am
#26
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,182
If you read the conversation over at VFT, it seems those who maxed out each subscription (newspaper or telekom) offer using every way possible (multiple 'servicecard' numbers, different mailing addresses etc) and then booked awards in other names without flying much are getting a shot across the bows from the corporate audit department.
Of course these individuals will cry the loudest on FT and the rest of the web 2.0 sphere and selectively highlight mistakes LH made and conveniently forget their own actions.
Are there loopholes in the current and past systems? Yes.
Should we or others who get wind of it use them? Yes.
Should we overdo it? No.
Reminds me of the 20$ mistake J fare LX had to India ex Canada. Some FTer booked an entire marriage party to India plus informed his community of the deal and then acted surprised why LX wouldn't honor the tickets.
Of course these individuals will cry the loudest on FT and the rest of the web 2.0 sphere and selectively highlight mistakes LH made and conveniently forget their own actions.
Are there loopholes in the current and past systems? Yes.
Should we or others who get wind of it use them? Yes.
Should we overdo it? No.
Reminds me of the 20$ mistake J fare LX had to India ex Canada. Some FTer booked an entire marriage party to India plus informed his community of the deal and then acted surprised why LX wouldn't honor the tickets.
Jul 12, 2011, 6:27 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
This is what last year's credit card warning letter looked like:
"Sehr geehrte(r) xxx,
wir haben festgestellt, dass sie mit dem Überweisungsservice umfangreiche Überweisungen durchgeführt haben. Wir gehen davon aus, dass diese Überweisungen keinen wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund haben, sondern lediglich in der Absicht getätigt wurden, dadurch an Prämienmeilen zu gelangen.
Wir machen Sie darauf aufmerksam, dass wir die Nutzung des Überweisungsservice in dieser Weise nicht gestatten. Bitte nehmen Sie künftig Abstand von Überweisungen ohne wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund. Vielen Dank!
Sollten Sie weiterhin Überweisungen tätigen, die nur zum Ziel haben, Prämienmeilen zu erlangen, kündigen wir den Überweisungsservice für Ihre Karte gem. Ziffer IX. der Bedingungen für die Teilnahme am Überweisungsservice.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
"
Looks like now they are sending termination notices?
"Sehr geehrte(r) xxx,
wir haben festgestellt, dass sie mit dem Überweisungsservice umfangreiche Überweisungen durchgeführt haben. Wir gehen davon aus, dass diese Überweisungen keinen wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund haben, sondern lediglich in der Absicht getätigt wurden, dadurch an Prämienmeilen zu gelangen.
Wir machen Sie darauf aufmerksam, dass wir die Nutzung des Überweisungsservice in dieser Weise nicht gestatten. Bitte nehmen Sie künftig Abstand von Überweisungen ohne wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund. Vielen Dank!
Sollten Sie weiterhin Überweisungen tätigen, die nur zum Ziel haben, Prämienmeilen zu erlangen, kündigen wir den Überweisungsservice für Ihre Karte gem. Ziffer IX. der Bedingungen für die Teilnahme am Überweisungsservice.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
"
Looks like now they are sending termination notices?
Jul 12, 2011, 6:46 am
#28
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Italy
Programs: LH SEN, FB platinum, BAEC bronze
Posts: 473
This is what last year's credit card warning letter looked like:
"Sehr geehrte(r) xxx,
wir haben festgestellt, dass sie mit dem Überweisungsservice umfangreiche Überweisungen durchgeführt haben. Wir gehen davon aus, dass diese Überweisungen keinen wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund haben, sondern lediglich in der Absicht getätigt wurden, dadurch an Prämienmeilen zu gelangen.
Wir machen Sie darauf aufmerksam, dass wir die Nutzung des Überweisungsservice in dieser Weise nicht gestatten. Bitte nehmen Sie künftig Abstand von Überweisungen ohne wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund. Vielen Dank!
Sollten Sie weiterhin Überweisungen tätigen, die nur zum Ziel haben, Prämienmeilen zu erlangen, kündigen wir den Überweisungsservice für Ihre Karte gem. Ziffer IX. der Bedingungen für die Teilnahme am Überweisungsservice.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
"
Looks like now they are sending termination notices?
"Sehr geehrte(r) xxx,
wir haben festgestellt, dass sie mit dem Überweisungsservice umfangreiche Überweisungen durchgeführt haben. Wir gehen davon aus, dass diese Überweisungen keinen wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund haben, sondern lediglich in der Absicht getätigt wurden, dadurch an Prämienmeilen zu gelangen.
Wir machen Sie darauf aufmerksam, dass wir die Nutzung des Überweisungsservice in dieser Weise nicht gestatten. Bitte nehmen Sie künftig Abstand von Überweisungen ohne wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund. Vielen Dank!
Sollten Sie weiterhin Überweisungen tätigen, die nur zum Ziel haben, Prämienmeilen zu erlangen, kündigen wir den Überweisungsservice für Ihre Karte gem. Ziffer IX. der Bedingungen für die Teilnahme am Überweisungsservice.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
"
Looks like now they are sending termination notices?
Jul 12, 2011, 6:53 am
#29
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Just for clarification: Überweisungsservice is not free of charge ?!
This is what last year's credit card warning letter looked like:
"Sehr geehrte(r) xxx,
wir haben festgestellt, dass sie mit dem Überweisungsservice umfangreiche Überweisungen durchgeführt haben. Wir gehen davon aus, dass diese Überweisungen keinen wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund haben, sondern lediglich in der Absicht getätigt wurden, dadurch an Prämienmeilen zu gelangen.
Wir machen Sie darauf aufmerksam, dass wir die Nutzung des Überweisungsservice in dieser Weise nicht gestatten. Bitte nehmen Sie künftig Abstand von Überweisungen ohne wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund. Vielen Dank!
Sollten Sie weiterhin Überweisungen tätigen, die nur zum Ziel haben, Prämienmeilen zu erlangen, kündigen wir den Überweisungsservice für Ihre Karte gem. Ziffer IX. der Bedingungen für die Teilnahme am Überweisungsservice.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
"
Looks like now they are sending termination notices?
"Sehr geehrte(r) xxx,
wir haben festgestellt, dass sie mit dem Überweisungsservice umfangreiche Überweisungen durchgeführt haben. Wir gehen davon aus, dass diese Überweisungen keinen wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund haben, sondern lediglich in der Absicht getätigt wurden, dadurch an Prämienmeilen zu gelangen.
Wir machen Sie darauf aufmerksam, dass wir die Nutzung des Überweisungsservice in dieser Weise nicht gestatten. Bitte nehmen Sie künftig Abstand von Überweisungen ohne wirtschaftlichen Hintergrund. Vielen Dank!
Sollten Sie weiterhin Überweisungen tätigen, die nur zum Ziel haben, Prämienmeilen zu erlangen, kündigen wir den Überweisungsservice für Ihre Karte gem. Ziffer IX. der Bedingungen für die Teilnahme am Überweisungsservice.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
"
Looks like now they are sending termination notices?
All what it leaves is ?????? As an Amex card holder I don´t know the details. Anyone could bring light in ?