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-   -   How much do you have to play? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/las-vegas/283972-how-much-do-you-have-play.html)

dhuey Oct 5, 2005 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by JerryGuitar
...what am i missing?

Poor play. Relatively few blackjack players play properly. Those free drinks don't help, either. It doesn't take too many errors (e.g., I'll stand on this 16 since my gut tells me the next card is a ten) to turn a <1% house advantage into a 5%+ one.

Doppy Oct 5, 2005 2:50 pm

Generally casinos can expect to make around 2% off of players, even with rules that would lead to a low house advantage.

JerryGuitar Oct 5, 2005 3:09 pm


Originally Posted by Doppy
Generally casinos can expect to make around 2% off of players, even with rules that would lead to a low house advantage.

even 2% in my previous example would still leave the casino with a net loss. i think the key is that the Venetian is able to buy the gift cards from the retailers at a significant volume discount. Any way you slice it though, this seems to be a great deal for the player.

coplatsat Oct 5, 2005 3:24 pm

Well I play probably 25% craps, 25% Carribean, 50% Black Jack and a little roulette.

I have a fairly decent line of credit with them, and last time I was their I wrote them a nice check.

I think that they are assuming that I will play more than 6 hours and that average is what they told me but does not truly reflect what I actually play.

In Black Jack I will start at $50 and work my way up to $300 or $400 depending on how the table is doing.

In craps I play $50 on the pass line, play up to 3-4 numbers with full odds.

In carribean, my afternoon drinking game, I play $50 up front backed up with $100 behind mostly blind. Ie - I stay in every hand, or bluff the dealer. I know that they count this as $75.

Roulette, I will take $500 in chips, have each chip valued at $5, and play about $100 per spin 75% outside, 25% inside, until I run out of money. I have them pay me in color not more chips for the inside bets and some outside. This drives them nuts, and it is like they forgot english when I demand it.

Last time I was there it was $75 per hour for like 22 hours over three days. Plus, I do other protocol as explained in previous replies/posts. Tip, be nice, do not table hop too much, show your card, get to know the dealers, bosses, marketing, and credit. Talk up the hotel, and I come back with various friends who are at or above my level.

I also spend a lot on hotel amenities which are mostly comped, but they did not comp my spa last time, told me they could not, and it was about $500.

I think it is a good offer, and I may do it, if my schedule permits.

Personally, they are pobably counting on much more than 6 hours of play. The 6 hours is in the fine print at the bottom of the letter. I wonder how many other people got it. If I go, I will report back on how many people were at the gala breakfast.

Of course, each table game is rated differently (craps is the best).

coplatsat Oct 5, 2005 3:33 pm

Agree with the other poster that they probably have a good discount at the retail stores. Also, think of it this way, with the people who are getting this invitation, they will probably spend more at the stores than the gift card provides.

dhuey Oct 5, 2005 4:46 pm

I agree with the consensus -- big discount on that gift card. Niemans and Saks have high margins to begin with. The user of the card is probably giving them business that they wouldn't otherwise get. Plus, as noted above, this might lead to sales beyond the card amount and to a new customer relationship. My guess: 40-50% discount.

Doppy Oct 5, 2005 4:52 pm


Originally Posted by JerryGuitar
even 2% in my previous example would still leave the casino with a net loss. i think the key is that the Venetian is able to buy the gift cards from the retailers at a significant volume discount. Any way you slice it though, this seems to be a great deal for the player.

Ah, but now that we've had a look at the distribution of games our fellow member plays, it would seem to the casino that he's a valuable player.

Caribbean stud has a house edge of 5.224%, and double zero Roulette, 5.26%. Craps depends on the specific bets, but a pass line bet with 3-5 times odds is pretty good.

On blackjack, some casinos try to rate the skill of the player; a bad player will yield a much higher expected house win than 2%. I've seen some real doozies.

dhuey Oct 5, 2005 5:09 pm


Originally Posted by Doppy
...I've seen some real doozies.

Me too. You don't usually have to sit at a table too long to see some astonishingly bad play.

GDIW Oct 6, 2005 7:26 am

deleted because my comments were redundant.

coplatsat Oct 10, 2005 2:44 pm

As a follow up to the letter I received regarding a comp in December, I was just personally called by a different host to see if I got it, and if I am coming. I told her I was inticed but could not make a decision yet do to some other issues. She said she would send a follow up letter.

stngfn Oct 18, 2005 7:13 pm

Hotel San Remo/Hooters
 
I was at the Hotel San Remo/Hooters over the weekend, and was advised that their comp system has changed. In order to get even rated, you need to play $25 a hand for 4 hours. While I can understand that type of rating once the renovation is complete, right now the place looks like a construction site. Most of the casino is either off-limits or unsightly, and for them to change their rating system during this time is puzzling at best..

StSebastian Oct 21, 2005 9:35 pm

Wow...last time I was there we played $2 blackjack and it was empty. $25/hand seems like the Bellagio/Venetian levels, and I don't think they're going to upgrade the property that much.

I'm at MGM next week, so we'll have to run over and look at the progress.

hlburi Feb 14, 2006 3:09 pm


Originally Posted by dhuey
Poor play. Relatively few blackjack players play properly. Those free drinks don't help, either. It doesn't take too many errors (e.g., I'll stand on this 16 since my gut tells me the next card is a ten) to turn a <1% house advantage into a 5%+ one.

dhuey is spot on. I've been playing BlackJack for over 10 years now. I used to deal. I go to Las Vegas at least once a month. The only game I play is BlackJack. It has the best odds for the player. Especially if you can find a good single or double deck game that does not have the crappy 6:5 payout. But it never fails to amaze me the people who will not play basic strategy! Either they are too scared to hit a 15 or 16 (when they are supposed to) or they hit a bust hand when the dealer is showing a bust card. Or do other equally stupid things like split 10s, etc.

I give the same advice to everyone who wants to learn blackjack. Trust the numbers. The casinos do. :) Basic Strategy is the only way to go.

dhuey Feb 14, 2006 3:25 pm


Originally Posted by hlburi
...
I give the same advice to everyone who wants to learn blackjack. Trust the numbers. The casinos do. :) Basic Strategy is the only way to go.

Great advice. If someone wants to depart from basic strategy, tell them to use some entry level counting, like counting 5s and/or 6s. If the players had a choice of removing one rank of cards from the deck, it would be 5s. Next best is 6s.

bumpme Feb 14, 2006 3:27 pm


Originally Posted by hlburi
dhuey is spot on. I've been playing BlackJack for over 10 years now. I used to deal.

I thought former bj dealers are banned from playing.


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