Select Seating (again)
 

One of the supposed benefits of Select Seating is that middle seats will be kept open unless the flight is so full that they are needed.

When OLCI'ing I of course select a row with a vacant middle seat, only to usually find that there is somebody in that seat anyway when I board the aircraft. This in spite of the fact that far more often than not I can see plenty of empty seats around, sometimes even one, two or more rows that are completely unoccupied.

I've now decided to resort to the tactic of boarding as the very last pax, and then simply picking whatever seat that takes my fancy. This works like a charm on all but really full flights. Yesterday I selected three seats for myself, instead of taking my assigned seat in an otherwise full row.

Why on earth is it so difficult to properly implement Select Seating? On yesterday's flight KL wanted me to sit in a full row, while a non-elite colleague of mine had a row of six seats to himself. Good for him, but are they just really stupid, lazy and incompetent or what?

I just don't get it!!!

Johan

For all I know it would be a very simple algorythm to implement. Realy VERY simple.

Johan seems like you have been asking KLM "how difficult" is this for sometime now surely you must realise that its their job to do this in order for you to contribute to FT

Select Seating goes from strength to strength!
 

Having a preference for aisle seats, I've long since accepted that I'm usually pre-assigned a window seat. That this was the case again this morning did therefore not come as a surprise. What caused me to raise an eyebrow, then, was the novel idea of pre-assigning me a seat in one of the very last rows on the aircraft. On an F70, which has tail-mounted engines!

Many years ago Interflug used to operate Ilyushin 18s with the first class cabin located at the very back of the aircraft. This was not for communist ideological reasons, but because the rear end of the cabin was far quieter than the front.

Perhaps KL has hit on a new way of keeping disgruntled PEs from voicing their opinions: drown the chorus of despair in the roar of two F70 engines.

Johan

Welcome to the club! This has been happening to me for years, especially on F70s (well, most of my flights ARE on F70s these days, so that's not really surprising).

It happens a fair bit of the time when I'm travelling on my own. It happens nearly 100% of the time when I am travelling with my other half (who is also GE)

Me too (GE) always given a window or middle seat, rarely an aisle though this has been in my profile since I joined.

Again, elite benefits are not implemented properly, if at all.

Shame really. On a BA I fare for my vacation - assigned 2A & C, welcomed by name, "more champagne, sir?".

Guess what... we are travelling on KLM tomorrow, LCY-AMS for a change (usual departure airport is NWI). Just checked us in - preallocated two seats in Row 14 right at the back of the F50. PLENTY of seats available everywhere - in fact only 5A and 5C were shown as taken.

What are they playing at???

Isn't that the cancelled flight?
















:)

I thought you were serious for a moment. Until I realised you were winding me up. (I hope...) :confused:

Couldn't resist, sorry.

Flights seem quiet except the 1564 @ 15:55

Does Select Seating Still Exist?
 

As I wrote in the first post: I just don't get it.

The other day, I boarded the aircraft to discover that I was the only person on the entire plane in a row with an occupied middle seat. Even though the load factor was very low (lekker puh!), the so-called Select Seating zone was a lot busier than the rest of the aircraft: there was not a single pax in any of the rows in the middle section over the wing, and not all that many more sitting farther aft.

Johan

Have the same "problem" on CityJets flights.

We're two (who more or less always flying together) and both of us are E+. Every single time we're automatically assigned seats at the very front of the plane and with any if's and but's there is always some one sitting next to us even though there are plenty of seats available further down the plane :( We have now started to get one of the last three rows as these are the only 2 seaters next to each other...

Is the blocked seat only for Plat holders or is there a trick around the problem?

We have tried to change seats so the middle seat is open when checking in online but this has never worked either :rolleyes:

Definitely not for Plat. I had the same experience yesterday from Ams to FCO (as so often), middle seat occupied while almost all other rows had no-one in the middle - and plenty off empyt rows in the back. Very annoying, shows again that KLM does not care too much about elite+ customers that only fly in economy class.

Btw, where is it actually written that a middle seat will be blocked unless the flight is full for Elites?

So I fired off some questions to my Schiphol sources on this one.

For European sectors in Y cabin, it's not possible to reserve a seat before checking in.
So theoretically, the whole cabin should be empty when Internet check-in opens 30 hours before departure.
But this is not the case.
Firstly, pax checking in from destinations further away (say, Singapore for example), get seats before we can check-in as they are able to check-in 30 hours prior to their first flight.
So that takes away some seats.
Secondly, the Departure Control System will distribute passengers in the plane evenly as more people check-in, also taking into consideration the booked load.
With a very light load, certain sections are blocked for Weight and Balance purposes.
So on internet check-in it may appear as something has been "reserved" for us, but that's merely the computer allocating a seat as we check-in.
Of course check-in agents can shift the passengers if they don't like the seat the was assigned by the computer.

Select Seating is no longer able available on intercontinental flights - it has been replaced by Economy Comfort.
On European sectors it is available - for those in Unrestricted Economy fare classes and Silver Elite and upward, provided the FB number is in the reservation.

Does the DCS automatically preseat those who are eligible before check-in opens?
No it does not.
Does it automatically allocate seats upon checkin in, in the Select rows if one is eligible?
Yes it does.

Could attentative staff play a role in better and fairer distribution?
Yes they can as in the flight preparation period, they could pre-seat Elites, block middle rows and ensure a fair distribution throughout the plane.
Do they do this?
At many stations yes, at others not.
Why not?
Because it costs time and effort.

For flights departing Amsterdam there is the thing of "missed connections".
A flight that's full can appear quite empty because passengers have been rebooked.

Tip: check the self service transfer machines at Schiphol Airport - that gives one a fair idea of available seats before departure, much more accurate than Internet Check-in and you can reseat until a certain period (I believe until the flight is closed for check-in).

I don't know. A search on the KL website turned up no relevant hits for "Select Seating".

The concept was introduced quite some years ago. It was announced that the "first few rows" (rows 9-18 on 747s, the only aircraft with a dedicated Select Seating cabin, which now of course has become Economy Comfort) in Economy Class would be pre-assigned to Elites and full-fare (YSB) economy pax only, and that seats in that section would only be allocated to other pax at check-in if there was no availability further back. Middle seats would not be blocked, but they would only be assigned on request to qualifying pax, e.g. if pax traveling together requested adjacent seats.

With the introduction of Economy Comfort I assume there is no longer any Select Seating on longhaul flights, but it seems as if it has been abolished on shorthaul flights as well.

Off topic, but on the flight mentioned in my previous post, I was in the second row of economy. In the first row, there were two pax traveling together. One of these was served from the ES cabin: drinks, the world famous box meal, and coffee. He shared all but the latter with his lady companion, but because he only had one plastic fork, he had to feed her the way mothers spoon-feed their toddlers. Highly amusing. KLM IFE is really in a class of its own! :D

Johan

This works quite well, also at the machines at check-in for those not transfering. OLCI 30 hours before departure and you can still change at the airport until 40 minutes before departure.

I was on KL for the first time in months last week and when I tried this trick, the machine didn't allow me to change - I asked and it was explained that the flight was overbooked. In the end a few seats were available because of the weather so the opup they almost promised didn't materialize. Would have been to ES on a 40 min flight to didn't care too much.

Select seating
 

Hello Johan,

The KLM policy of select seating is as follows:
On all short haul flights all rows in the front part of cabin (from the curtain up to the exits are marked with $. That means that this part is reserved for full S class economy passengers and all other platinum, gold and silver KL-AF and elite plus sky team members. Normally the middle seat is kept empty. However a lot of times there are more than 30!!! platinum members and more than 50 all eligible select seating customers on the same flight. That makes it impossible leave the middle seat empty. On full flights a lot of people prefer to seat in the middle in the front than at the rear even if there are several open rows.
I would suggest you buy an exit row during the internet check-in or get it free if you are a gold or platinum member.

A lot of times all those elit customers fly with friends on the same booking and they are entitled to travel in the front cabin together. At some occasions some people are missing at gate so even if the flight is completely full there would be some open seats upon departure.

And of course there are always some customers that do not have their status card quoted in the reservation and only at check in we find out that they could opt for a select seating zone, but a lot of times these seats are already occupied.
I hope this little explanation is useful for your future travel.
Best

Thanks for the clarification, kai.lileboo.

It is all very fine in principle, but just doesn't seem to work all that well at all in practice.

I fully understand that there are various good reasons for allocating (middle)seats in the Select Seating zone. Yet time and again, I find myself surrounded by non-elites on flights that have lots of empty seats throughout the rest of the cabin. Sometimes, some of them are colleagues of mine, so I know for a fact whether they have status or not. On the midday/mid-afternoon flights I take, the number of premium/full-fare/elite pax is very low: rarely more than a handful in ES, and I would be greatly surprised if the number of elites behind the curtain reaches double digits. Certainly on the passenger manifests I have seen they have been few and far between. There have even been flights where I was told I was the only elite on board.

So, I still don't get it.

Johan

I guess you work for KLM?

The quoted entry it appears there is an official KLM policy to keep the middle seat empty for elites on short hauls, when possible.

I am flying between Rome-Amsterdam 1-3 times per month and are often one of the few elites on the plane (easy to identify if you count the pax that sit in the lounge and stand in line for the pre-boarding, especially at FCO). Pax are a combination of many tourists and some business people. But the "normally the middle seat is kept empty" rule when flights are far from full really does not hold, not flying from Rome, not flying from Amsterdam. I have had too often that I sit next to a tourist while surrounded by other tourists that enjoying their empty middle seats. Okay, it is only a 2 hr flight, but still..... if there is a policy why not following it?

Next time I will indeed check, and if needed, change my seat at the airport. Good suggestion!

From my understanding the middle seat policy does not exist.

There is a policy - short haul - to get Platinum and Gold (not Silver !) pax or higher fare paying non status pax to get to the front - but not if your booking contains non-Plat/Gold/high fare.

So we find ourselves often - Plat (for life) - my wife too - with 3 kids (Silver) in the last rows. KLM was surprised, shocked, apoliged and said the system was not working well. But with the number of flights we experience this, that did not hold - so in the end, they said only Plat/Gold/high fares and then only if the system works.

So in practice, we need to OLCI early and then call the Eliite line to get decent seats (together ) if at all.

In other words - KLM does not offer this benefit at all

-
Hello there,

I meant we (all elite passengers). I am not anymore but my wife is P and know all the details.
I feel sorry for all the top tier KL-AF-DL that the practice is different from what it had to be.
The system automaticly assign seats to special passengers (babies, wheelchairs, families, P, G, S cards... so actually no person is involved in that task. Maybe you could all write a complaint to AF.KL and explain your concerns. If they receive e-mails will sure do anything.

I would like to point out that I am top tyer on Star Alliance and the policy is the same, but a seat next to me is almost always occupied, when complained to LH they told me that if the passenger ask it they have to give it out even if the plane is not full.

My suggestion is that you check on line the day before and choose your seat by yourself if you are not happy with your pre-reserved seat.

newbie to KLM question - seating
 

I've looked a bit through the threads, but wondering.

I booked on KLM.com (UK site) for Aberdeen to AMS (and beyond) and the site says that I can select my seat when purchasing ticket. There was no prompt, so I bought the ticket and later have gone in to select this route seating and says 'not possible'.

As I have only a 50 minute transfer time in Schiphol, I'd like a front seat. How can I accomplish this?

Thanks

My experience on KLM connecting flights from Sweden used to be exactly the same as reported by many others: As Platinum Elite I more often than not would find myself in a full row, when lots of other seats in the plane were free, with many passengers enjoying a free middle seat. I have not flown KLM for the last year, not because of this, but it sure does not help!

Do online check in at 30 hours prior to departure. Seats for intra-EU flights are not pre assigned, unless you travel in Europe Select.

Gajan

In all fairness, that was not KL's doing; it was the pax.

They did provide the fork! :D

Johan

Hahaha... good one! ^

Thanks for clarifying ^

:D:D:D

Does anybody know whether Select Seating still exists on shorthaul flights?

It has recently consistently been my experience that, despite using OLCI early, there have only been middle seats available forward of the emergency exit rows, whereas most rows farther back had six open seats.

I found a single window seat available yesterday, and went for that even though I prefer aisle, as the adjacent middle seat was still open. When I printed a new boarding card at the airport an hour or so ago, this middle seat had now also been taken. No doubt by a PE who just loves sitting in the middle. Back of the aircraft still empty, let's hope they don't have a weight and balance problem! There is enough to worry about outside: snow coming down in buckets; a phalanx of yellow monster vehicles is trying to clear the runway; a widebody lined up for take-off for almost an hour, waiting for deicing trucks. Looks like a lot of fun is being had by all.



Johan

My mother also recently has this. When doing OLCI for her flight (on a E190, so 2-2 seating) I chose her a window seat with a free aisle. Upon boarding she said that there was a guy seating next to her, while there were numerous free seats at the back (which that person must have seen when doing OLCI / check-in agent checked him in).

That said, I guess it depends on preference. The first 8 or 10 rows on the short-haul fleet do have more legroom compared to the other rows. Maybe people choose the front seats for this reason in stead of possibly having a row to themselves (besides that you get off the plane earlier etc..)

Not too sure if the "Select seating" product is still alive on short-haul flights; it has been scrapped on long-haul flights due to the various (paid) seating products.

Gajan

:confused: Very worrying, indeed! Just make sure to wear a hard-hat if you should venture outside! :p But, as you're one of our resident experts on the subject: does putting snow into buckets and then dropping them from a great height constitute "Dutch humour?" :D

-- Henry

Most of my s/h flights in Y in the last months have been relatively full so I couldn't tell.

I moved myself from pre-assigned 16B to OLCI 4D for my flight tomorrow. I had seq number 2 and there were definitely more than 1 seats already greyed out.

Interesting in deed. Not to give any advice or asking for any either, but just to clarify does your mother hold any status with FB? And could it be that the person who sat next to her was seated automatically by the system (some people actually don't care where they sit or share the same interest as most of us FT'ers)?

One interesting fact when FF are asked about seating preferences, the number one preference is to have a seat free next to them ;)

My mother is FB Platinum.

I found out that non-elites have access to all seats at OLCI, also the first few rows in economy. They are not kept for elites and full-fare ticketholders. Lots of people prefer to sit in the front so they are off earlier (especially when having tight connections).

The only benefit you have is that the KLM system pre-assigns a seat for elites in the second or third row economy (at least that happens to me when I do OLCI for a flight between FCO and AMS). Maybe that is what they refer to as "Select Seating."

No, the original Select Seating concept was based on

• reserving the forward section of the Y cabin for elites and full-fare pax
  
  
• keeping the middle seats in that section free, if at all possible.

Whether it worked or not was completely hit and miss from day one, as check-in agents and just about every else could override the system and assigns seats anywhere to whomever they wanted to. Certain outstations consistently did a lot better than others, with AMS at the bottom of the heap.

I can recall flights where it actually worked as advertised, with lots of open seats and even whole rows towards the front, and the back of the plane packed, but not too many.

Johan

But this was I guess before OLCI. When I have visitors (non-FB members) and they check in online for the FCO-AMS, all seats show, also those in forward section.

Both OLCI and Select Seating have been around for so long that I can't remember which came first, but they operated in parallel for many years.

Johan