So when can we expect these changes to fully be in place, 2003? I have tickets planned on NW coming up and need to decide this next month if to use my RW card and requalify with 29 more segments or requalify for CO Silver?!

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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

My question is that I can "requalify" for 2004 RW before late October if I shift my flights that way, quite quickly in fact. Would it be to my advantage to do so, or should I wait it out. Called FD and they couldn't give me an answer......

These changes will make it harder for me to maintain status since I always fly for leisure at my own expense and hence always in economy.

It will also be harder for UK fliers who have always enjoyed generous points levels on UK-AMS sectors in order to encourage business away from airlines which hub in LHR and to compensate old AirUK customers.

However, it is hard to complain about the new program in principle; it makes commercial sense for KLM and is clearer to use.

As others have said, it will depend upon the detail: what status RWs are given in the new structure, whether the conversion rate really is 1:1, and what the redemption levels will be.

If KLM know how the new program will work, why can't they give us the details now?

As one who had adapted to FD's peculiarities to get the most out of it, I am not particularly looking forward to it becoming just another 'standard' US-style FF program.

So far in the past 6 months I have accumulated about 25K points (->RW), which would yield about 40K miles under the new system (-> Gold). I will certainly adjust my FD flying pattern to benefit from the new rules (no extra effort to fly MH intra-Asia, less US domestic multi-legs, look for cheap long hauls, etc.)

It seems the current announcement lists mostly good things, but does not mention what will happen to the details which made FD a competitive option in spite of some ridiculously low points levels (e.g. 450 points for an US domestic transcon for a Swiss member):
- one way awards
- upgrades from all fares
- fairly good perks for SW (lounge and check-in), compared to the essentially useless Silver levels on most US carriers.


I expect that:
- points will be converted to miles at a 1:1 ratio
- SW and RW will be placed into 3 elite levels according to points accumulated in the past year
- upgradability from all fares might remain, with perhaps documented preferential treatment for Platinum
- OW awards will cost more than half of a RT award
- the Silver level will lose lounge access, and probably priority partner check-in; any chance of a select seat (C) on 737's.
- service points carryover will disappear http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I also hope the partner miles will become the European standard 500 miles, as opposed to the US 50 miles per day on car rentals, or remaining at the current 300 point level.

Any news of what the reward levels will be?

The comment that they will be Region to Region awards - doe sthat means that, for example, Europe-US will allow to to do, for example, CDG-AMS-NYC return for the same amount of points as AMS-NYC return?

Stephen

Re: point/mles conversion ratio.

When I spoke to both KL and NW within the last two months, I was informed that it was POLICY for WP members moving to Europe to have to exchange WP to KL at a 1:.8 ratio. For KL members moving to US, FD points were exchanged to WP at 1:1.25.

So, I would be surprised if they would rescind an existing policy?!

This would be a very bad exchange rate....unless they will only increase award requirements up with 25 % ??



[This message has been edited by The-Longhauler (edited 08-28-2002).]

"Earn a minimum of 500 Award and Level Miles even on the shortest flight"

Not good news for those in the UK and Scandinavia who fly a lot on KLM Cityhopper. These short flights currently earn 1,100 points (Zone C), which arguably equals somewhere between 1,650 and 2,200 miles.

Optimistically assuming a 125% elite bonus, such flights will earn a maximum of 1,125 miles.

johan

The "New FD" announcement is an outstanding example of poor communication, as it makes the serious and elementary mistake of raising more questions than it answers.

Amongst others it says "Be sure to watch out for a new FD card that will be sent to active members shortly by mail, together with full details regarding the improvements to the FD program"

As I know from experience what KLM means by "shortly" (not what everybody else means) I fully expect the new card and "full details" to arrive well after the changes have been implemented. I have therefore sent FD an e-mail with some questions (see below). As the helpdesk is notorious for not replying, I encourage others to send similar mails, in the hope that somebody actually gets an answer.

johan

Text of e-mail :

The recent announcement of changes to the FD program raises a lot of question, which I hope you can answer.

1. "You earn a minimum of 500 Award and Level Miles even on the shortest flights, [...]You can see why the changes to the FD program are rewarding for you!"

Please explain how this is rewarding when flying for example short KLC flights in zone C, which currently earn 1,100 status points. How can 500 Level Miles be rewarding, let alone an improvement?

2. "Award points will become Award Miles."

What will the conversion rate be for existing points?

3. "Elite members will receive an Elite Mileage bonus on all flights"

What are the percentages for the various elite tiers?

4. "The Miles required for a flight award are determined on a region-to-region basis"

How are the regions defined?

5. "New four-tier membership structure: Blue Plus, Silver Elite, Gold Elite and Platinum Elite."

What level will existing RW members be offered?

What are the (re)qualification levels for each tier?

Will requalification be strictly on a calender year basis, or will "excess" miles carry over to following years, like in the current program?

What, specifically, are the benefits, for each of the new tiers?

I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,

johan rebel

I like the above official comment at least. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

They make no mention whatever of retaining one-way awards, which my fingers are crossed for.

Makes me guess that they WILL use a 1=1 level. i.e. ... current balance = new balance

Seeing they mailed Joh and I (and many others here) TWO RW cards each and TWO welcome packs, hope the "event" involves an extra 10,000 points per old card or something nice. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Anyone know how to do a screen save of the text in http://www.klm.com/nl_en/flying_dutc...ws_aug_sep.jsp



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~ Glen ~

So that's mysterious: On my local KLM page and on klm.nl the Aug/Sep News with the information about the program changes did disappear today!

Maybe that was published too early? Or they have addtl. changes...?

And the link from my first post doesn't work now: "This page will soon be updated".

[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 08-29-2002).]

Same message here too Ralf. I do hope someone here took the time to cut and paste aside on file the text of the first text?

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~ Glen ~

Don't know why I copied the text, but I did it. So I can help out, ozstamps.

New Flying Dutchman program ready for take off

This year the Flying Dutchman program celebrates its tenth anniversary and there couldn’t be a more appropriate moment to introduce a number of fundamental changes to one of the most popular loyalty programs around.

These changes are intended to increase the transparency of the program and reward you for flying with KLM. What’s more, thanks to the program changes, Flying Dutchman will also be more aligned with one of the best loyalty programs: Northwest Airlines’ WorldPerks®. Such an alliance of partner programs is unique in the airline industry and goes to prove how strong the KLM/Northwest partnership is.

The largest changes to the program concern the switchover from points to Miles, an easier reward system whereby you earn Miles for all actual miles flown, the introduction of a membership level system with four tiers and a more transparent award system in which the number of Miles required for a flight award are based on a region-to-region structure.

All improvements will ensure that earning and spending Miles is much easier.

What will change in the new Flying Dutchman program?
After ten years, we say farewell to the FD points system that will be replaced by a Miles system, enabling you to earn Miles on basis of the actual number of miles that you fly.

The new Miles system is above all an easy system, rewarding you with one Award Mile and one Level Mile for every mile you fly with KLM or one of our airline partners. Earning rates for non-airline partners will also be converted into Award Miles. You earn a minimum of 500 Award and Level Miles even on the shortest flights, and if you travel in Business Class you earn a bonus of 100% Award and Level Miles on top. Elite members will receive an Elite Mileage bonus on all flights. This means that all of our Elite members will earn extra Award Miles on every flight. You can see why the changes to the FD program are rewarding for you!

The old three-tiers will be replaced by four-tiers: Blue Plus, Silver Elite, Gold Elite and Platinum Elite. Active members will receive a new FD membership card on introduction of the new program improvements.

The new program is also easier when it comes to spending your Miles. The Miles required for a flight award are determined on a region-to-region basis.

The major improvements to our loyalty program are also reflected in its look and feel.

The new FD program in a nutshell:

- New four-tier membership structure: Blue Plus, Silver Elite, Gold Elite and Platinum Elite
- Award points will become Award Miles (also without an expiry date!)
- Service points will be replaced by Level Miles
- From 2003 onwards, an annual level check will take place on December 31 of every year
- You earn 1 Award and 1 Level Mile per mile flown
- Earn a minimum of 500 Award and Level Miles even on the shortest flight
- Double Award and Level Miles in Business Class
- Elite members will receive an Elite Mileage bonus on all flights
- Spending your Miles is now simpler due to a region-to-region structure
- Earn Award Miles towards a vast range of exciting awards with our non-airline partners as well

What can you expect from us during the next couple of months?

Be sure to watch out for a new FD card that will be sent to active members shortly by mail, together with full details regarding the improvements to the FD program. We will also be featuring a number of unique promotions and events to celebrate the launch of the new program. One of these events has to do with your ‘old’ FD card. So please make sure that you keep your card, even after you have received the new one!

You will receive fewer points statements than usual until the improvements have been fully implemented, after which you will receive your new ‘Mileage Summary’ regularly. You can check your balance on this website.

Book your awards as you have always done: online, using an Award Order Form or by phoning the FD Helpdesk. The conversion to the new Miles system will not affect awards that you have already booked.

We at Flying Dutchman are convinced that the improvements to the program will express our appreciation for our loyal customers more than ever before, thanking you for choosing KLM as your preferred airline.

Some say they are Lurking here, so now they will return with all questions answered http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

newbe - the things that FT'ers save never cease to amaze me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Many thanks - it will be fascinating to compare the FINAL text of the changes alongside what you cleverly saved. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif


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~ Glen ~