FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   KLM Flying Dutchman (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman-493/)
-   -   KLM Refusing to Honor EU-261 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/2129187-klm-refusing-honor-eu-261-a.html)

atflyer Jul 25, 2023 3:39 am


Originally Posted by Solevita (Post 35442262)
We're digging into seemingly obvious anomalies in your case to try and better understand what actually is going on.

If you do indeed find a regulatory board to take this on, do you not think they might also examine closely these strange numbers and then side with KLM? The point is, whilst your story and numbers don't seem to make sense, you aren't going to have much success pleading this to KLM or any regulatory board.

We've questioned things here, can you not yourself double check the facts, check you haven't indeed got a currency conversion error somewhere?

Maybe this link explains part of the story.....but indeed, we on this thread have to be the detectives to get an understanding what happened. It would be so helpful to have a to the point, fact-based, transparently documented story of why which costs were incurred that does not raise questions such as the strange spending on petrol. Or if it indeed was a gathering where a super-expensive bunad was essential, why this was not mentioned directly. And why hiring this or buying a very similar festdrak (that is not hand made and lacks the silver pieces) for a fraction of the price was not an option. As Solevita indicates, without that not much chance on success on pleading this to KLM or a regulatory board. And you cannot expect an airline to refund buying a literally silver-lined piece of clothing.

https://thenorwayguide.com/price-for...pand_article=1

physicsdude Jul 25, 2023 3:59 am


Originally Posted by atflyer (Post 35442411)
Maybe this link explains part of the story.....but indeed, we on this thread have to be the detectives to get an understanding what happened. It would be so helpful to have a to the point, fact-based, transparently documented story of why which costs were incurred that does not raise questions such as the strange spending on petrol. Or if it indeed was a gathering where a super-expensive bunad was essential, why this was not mentioned directly. And why hiring this or buying a very similar festdrak (that is not hand made and lacks the silver pieces) for a fraction of the price was not an option. As Solevita indicates, without that not much chance on success on pleading this to KLM or a regulatory board. And you cannot expect an airline to refund buying a literally silver-lined piece of clothing.

https://thenorwayguide.com/price-for...pand_article=1

KL treated OP much better than what had happened to me a few months back lol. Had a medical emergency right before my flight but KL refused to refund me multiple times and it took two months to get refunded even though their rules state that medical emergencies/death allow for a full refund.

Point is, KL actually followed protocol based on the information provided to them and the regulations/conditions for these situations and rightfully reimbursed OP the proper amount.

olivedel Jul 25, 2023 5:50 am

I am sorry you did not get much empathy here.
I am not assuming that you are trying to make money on the expense of the airline.
But I am surprised that such a seasoned traveler with 3k+ posts on FT has such unrealistic expectations towards airlines, let alone KLM that has had quite a frugal reputation. And does not carry credit cards on you (let alone checking them in the hold ) that could generate a trail of expenses to communicate with the airline.

Ber2dca Jul 25, 2023 11:50 am

It's pretty obvious KLM thinks - and I'm not saying they're right - that OP Is full of it. There are certain details of the story that seem odd, and they have been pointed out in this thread. I'm sure a KLM customer service rep can see the same issues and they are likely inclined to be very skeptical. And they're in the position to act on that skepticism in the way they did. OP's best option, other than the ones already suggested such as travel insurance claims, is to use a different airline in the future.

NWplatinum Jul 25, 2023 12:36 pm


Originally Posted by olivedel (Post 35442591)
I am sorry you did not get much empathy here.
I am not assuming that you are trying to make money on the expense of the airline.
But I am surprised that such a seasoned traveler with 3k+ posts on FT has such unrealistic expectations towards airlines, let alone KLM that has had quite a frugal reputation. And does not carry credit cards on you (let alone checking them in the hold ) that could generate a trail of expenses to communicate with the airline.

I appreciate what you are saying. But I never expected KLM to shower us with money, and give us all our expenses back. I did expect a reasonable amount of money (approximately $1000) for the gross inconvenience and negligence. Why our bags sat in Detroit for three days still has never been explained. Also losing our bags on the way home only added insult to injury.


Originally Posted by Ber2dca (Post 35443573)
It's pretty obvious KLM thinks - and I'm not saying they're right - that OP Is full of it.

Right, and KLM can think what it wants. We know what happened, and I never expected them to fully pay for all the hardship they caused us to incur. As I have stated, I would've been happy with $1000 which would've been fair to everyone. I contacted my attorney yesterday and I will be pursuing civil action against them. They can lay out their case before the court and explain why my real receipts, aren't real. I have a legal background so I know anyone can say they will sue, but I actually have the ability and means to do so. My wife is too upset for me to play anymore games with KLM.

As I said, if others like to play detective and it makes them happy, I'm glad I can help your day! But I do read some comments and see you don't realize the totality of the situation, or you make assumptions, or you leave parts out that I haven't commented on. Frankly as I'm taking civil action, I'd rather not discuss this publicly anymore. I may have been off by $50 or $100 in my statements on the gas. That doesn't mean the whole story is Bologna because I was raised with the Imperial system. Sorry...

Thanks to those who genuinely helped and provided links and what purview this violation falls under to lead me in the right direction. Safe travels everyone!

hsumh316 Jul 25, 2023 1:47 pm


Originally Posted by NWplatinum (Post 35443701)


Right, and KLM can think what it wants. We know what happened, and I never expected them to fully pay for all the hardship they caused us to incur.


This is exactly the issue. There is a disconnect between what KLM thinks and what you believe they should reimburse/comp you for. I dont think anyone is doubting you on your story, but we are just doubting the amount you are claiming. You don't need to convince anyone here of what you think you should be reimbursed for but I do think the people on here bring on valid points. Best of luck.

NWplatinum Jul 25, 2023 2:10 pm


Originally Posted by hsumh316 (Post 35443929)
This is exactly the issue. There is a disconnect between what KLM thinks and what you believe they should reimburse/comp you for. I dont think anyone is doubting you on your story, but we are just doubting the amount you are claiming. You don't need to convince anyone here of what you think you should be reimbursed for but I do think the people on here bring on valid points. Best of luck.

That's fair... I don't see how $1000 would be an unreasonable sum.

hsumh316 Jul 25, 2023 2:22 pm


Originally Posted by NWplatinum (Post 35443989)
That's fair... I don't see how $1000 would be an unreasonable sum.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what you or anyone on here thinks if it is reasonable. All that matters is what KLM thinks. Did you make separate claims for yourself and for your wife or was it just under one claim?

atflyer Jul 25, 2023 2:30 pm


Originally Posted by Ber2dca (Post 35443573)
OP's best option, other than the ones already suggested such as travel insurance claims, is to use a different airline in the future.

I do not think that is the way to go. It is clear from this thread there is a kind of escalation that simply is not needed. To quote my earlier post: " It would be so helpful to have a to the point, fact-based, transparently documented story of why which costs were incurred that does not raise questions such as the strange spending on petrol. Or if it indeed was a gathering where a super-expensive bunad was essential, why this was not mentioned directly. And why hiring this or buying a very similar festdrak (that is not hand made and lacks the silver pieces) for a fraction of the price was not an option."

If you document transparently that the solution you took for having your luggage delayed is commensurate given the circumstances, anyone in this thread will understand. As likely will KLM. The skepticism in this thread comes from the fact most of us cannot follow the story well. No wonder that KLM has a skeptical stance too. A transparent story takes this skepticism away, and likely will lead to a reasonable settlement. Lawyers are to be involved as last resort. And I say this after some hesitation - not having your luggage at a family reunion related to a deceased ancestor and wedding is not how it should be - but involving lawyers at this stage smells to me too much to reflecting the infamous and exaggerated claim culture from the US.

hhdl Jul 25, 2023 10:43 pm

So, between this experience and
Having so many service recovery gestures that Hilton
Opted to apologize for being unable
To meet your high standards,

Things would seem to point
At you being not only the most unlucky flyer on
KLM, but probably the most unlucky traveler on
Earth.
Regards, hhdl

Fabo.sk Jul 26, 2023 1:20 am


Originally Posted by hhdl (Post 35444893)
Things would seem to point
At you being not only the most unlucky flyer on
KLM, but probably the most unlucky traveler on
Earth.
Regards, hhdl

Either that, or the most entitled one.

irishguy28 Jul 26, 2023 2:16 am


Originally Posted by hhdl (Post 35444893)
Regards, hhdl

I bet you don't take any shot!!!

:D :D :D

Solevita Jul 26, 2023 2:28 am


Originally Posted by NWplatinum (Post 35443701)
I may have been off by $50 or $100 in my statements on the gas. That doesn't mean the whole story is Bologna because I was raised with the Imperial system. Sorry...

Whilst indeed confusing being brought up in imperial and being faced with metric, there's this thing called the Internet whereby one can easily convert between one system and another.

It's not like you were out by a few percent, a few 10s of percent, you were out by about 80%.

Imagine you take this to Judge Judy - "So, NWplatinum, you claimed $300 US for gas for a 3 hour journey." "Yes your honour".
KLM: "that 3 hour journey in a reasonable vehicle would have cost not more than $50 US, as well the receipt provided was only for ca $170 US"
Judy: "So, NWplatinum, where indeed did you figure out a cost of $300 US"
NWplatinum: "Well metric is so hard to comprehend you know and who knows how much a Norwegine Krone is worth, so I just plucked a figure out thin air"
Judy: "Case dismissed".

flyertalker00143 Jul 26, 2023 2:56 am

He is taking a lawyer so case closed then. Good luck to him (i mean the lawyer) ;)

NWplatinum Jul 26, 2023 3:26 am


Originally Posted by atflyer (Post 35444041)
but involving lawyers at this stage smells to me too much to reflecting the infamous and exaggerated claim culture from the US.

In America we do not allow big businesses to abuse people. Europeans can mock our courts and our judicial system, but it holds banks, insurance companies, collection agencies, and in this case airlines accountable when they violate rules, laws, and think they can abuse consumers. Obviously KLM admits fault, or they wouldn’t have offered anything, which certainly will be brought up in court. They hoped I’d take the paltry amount and go away. They think they can bully me into accepting a ridiculous amount for the monetary loss, and suffering we endured. I never asked for, nor expected KLM to cover the suits and dress and all my expenses I had to buy. But I did expect a reasonable amount of monetary compensation due to their complete disregard for our luggage.

There’s also the humanity factor I didn’t even bring up since it’s a personal matter that nobody knows about. As a result of their negligence, and the baggage service handler turning around down the street, I had to run to the airport and miss the family tour of my wife’s great-grand mothers home she grew up in during WWII. That’s just one example of dozens that ruined this once in a lifetime trip that was meant to heal, celebrate, and cope over the death of her mother. KLMs flippant attitude about this is also inhumane.

I don’t have the time, or energy to give an essay response as to the exact series of events to every onlookers seemingly “inconsistency” to prove to someone that doesn’t matter in this situation at all. KLM knows the totality of the situation, and they don’t care. I also don’t care that people are making conclusions without having the full story. I have the receipts I need, the entire story, and I will let the evidence do the talking for me. I don’t need a bunch of strangers on a forum’s approval. Sorry, it’s just not that important to me, nor will it ever be.

Again, even if you don’t support me, I appreciate everyone’s feedback that was helpful with links to the right authorities, and outlining of the Montreal Convention so I knew what purvey this fell under. Back in the day, this forum was about helping fellow travelers find solutions to problems they encountered with airlines. Sadly the more threads I see, they seem to turn into a reality TV show for some and I think that’s unfortunate.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 8:55 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.