KLM arbitrarily reduces expense refund after canceled flight
Jun 3, 2019, 6:12 pm
#16
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First, if they agree to reimburse more than that, then they should not backtrack on what they have agreed. And as others have said above, what are internal guidelines do not constitute legislation and as such are only "guidelines"--what KLM is "willing" to pay should be irrelevant: if there is no hotel that costs EUR 190 or less, does KLM want people to sleep in the airport? (Or under a bridge if it's a smaller airport that closes at night?) Surely that would mean failing their duty of care...
Jun 5, 2019, 1:45 pm
#17
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If I remember seeing it correctly, Mirk posted a summary of what KLM was willing to pay in case of irrops on Instagram a while back:
- eur 190 for hotel;
- eur 25 for food;
- eur 50 for transport.
Though they can make exceptions for Elites. In your case not fair they did not inform you up front.
On that note: a couple years ago I was delayed in London due to fog and had to stay overnight. In stead of staying in a hotel, I took a taxi from LCY to family in South London and the next day from their place to LHR. Total price something like GBP 130 (no hotel and meal expenses). Initially they were reluctant to pay the amount as they have fixed amounts per category, but were “willing to make an exception”.... (even though my total expenses were less than the maximum).
- eur 190 for hotel;
- eur 25 for food;
- eur 50 for transport.
Though they can make exceptions for Elites. In your case not fair they did not inform you up front.
On that note: a couple years ago I was delayed in London due to fog and had to stay overnight. In stead of staying in a hotel, I took a taxi from LCY to family in South London and the next day from their place to LHR. Total price something like GBP 130 (no hotel and meal expenses). Initially they were reluctant to pay the amount as they have fixed amounts per category, but were “willing to make an exception”.... (even though my total expenses were less than the maximum).
BA also has its own arbitrary limits but push back on their rejection and they usually capitulate especially if you then send a 'notice before action' to their legal department.
Jun 19, 2019, 11:59 pm
#19
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It may not be fully relevant for OP, but I just saw in AgentConnect (the AFKL information platform for travel agents in France) that AF has posted a Travel Advisory notice saying that there is 0 availability for hotels in CDG and ORY and around between 17 and 23/06 because of the Paris Air Show at Le Bourget. It says that, in case of irrops in CDG, pax will be asked to book an hotel direct and claim reimbursement afterwards The max amounts allowed are... :
- 120€ per room and per night
- 25€ per person for meals
- 50€ for transportation to/from airport.
I don't know where and what kind of hotel you can find in the Paris area for 120 E during the Paris Air Show... Even outside this show, you will end up in most cases in a dump place. I think they confuse between their negotiated rates and the public rates...
- 120€ per room and per night
- 25€ per person for meals
- 50€ for transportation to/from airport.
I don't know where and what kind of hotel you can find in the Paris area for 120 E during the Paris Air Show... Even outside this show, you will end up in most cases in a dump place. I think they confuse between their negotiated rates and the public rates...
Jun 20, 2019, 10:01 am
#20
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 373
It may not be fully relevant for OP, but I just saw in AgentConnect (the AFKL information platform for travel agents in France) that AF has posted a Travel Advisory notice saying that there is 0 availability for hotels in CDG and ORY and around between 17 and 23/06 because of the Paris Air Show at Le Bourget. It says that, in case of irrops in CDG, pax will be asked to book an hotel direct and claim reimbursement afterwards The max amounts allowed are... :
- 120€ per room and per night
- 25€ per person for meals
- 50€ for transportation to/from airport.
I don't know where and what kind of hotel you can find in the Paris area for 120 E during the Paris Air Show... Even outside this show, you will end up in most cases in a dump place. I think they confuse between their negotiated rates and the public rates...
- 120€ per room and per night
- 25€ per person for meals
- 50€ for transportation to/from airport.
I don't know where and what kind of hotel you can find in the Paris area for 120 E during the Paris Air Show... Even outside this show, you will end up in most cases in a dump place. I think they confuse between their negotiated rates and the public rates...
In any event, I wanted to update you on my progress with KL. I did write again to Customer Service contesting their “settlement.” I made it clear that I was not satisfied with the resolution and that if they did not refund the entire amount of my hotel stay then I would make a complaint to the Dutch Human Environment and Transport Inspectorate and/or the Italian Civil Aviation Agency. After some research I found out that these were the National Enforcement Bodies of Regulation 261/2004 for the departure and destination countries of the canceled flight.
KL’s attitude changed dramatically: they admitted that I “received incorrect payment” and apologized for the “miscommunication,” and today I received the difference in my account. (As you know, no miscommunication happened, they just did not want to pay up!)
It is mind-blowing how they try to save 50 quid when they know they are in the wrong themselves. If this happens in the future, I’ll know how to deal with it.
Thank you for your comments and support, everyone!
Jun 20, 2019, 10:15 am
#21
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I doubt many pax will wish to travel to Amsterdam for a hotel room for the night if stranded in PAR during the show....
You already responded to the post above where the KLM figure for AMS was given as €190.
Jun 21, 2019, 2:57 am
#22
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The amount you quote is AF's guidance for people stranded in PAR during the Air Show at Le Bourget.
I doubt many pax will wish to travel to Amsterdam for a hotel room for the night if stranded in PAR during the show....
You already responded to the post above where the KLM figure for AMS was given as €190.
I doubt many pax will wish to travel to Amsterdam for a hotel room for the night if stranded in PAR during the show....
You already responded to the post above where the KLM figure for AMS was given as €190.
As we have agreed in this thread, these limits (be they 120 or 190) are arbitrary and, in the end, do not reflect the reality of the airline’s obligations toward stranded passengers.
Jun 21, 2019, 4:14 am
#23
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Personally, I *would* be surprised if, faced with an event for which all the airport hotels were full, and in the context that hotels in the city proper are *always* full given the hordes of tourists that Amsterdam is now trying to battle, KLM responded by deciding to knock €70 off their "arbitrary" maximum.
Jun 21, 2019, 4:26 am
#24
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Personally, I *would* be surprised if, faced with an event for which all the airport hotels were full, and in the context that hotels in the city proper are *always* full given the hordes of tourists that Amsterdam is now trying to battle, KLM responded by deciding to knock €70 off their "arbitrary" maximum.
Jun 21, 2019, 5:37 am
#25
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It may not be fully relevant for OP, but I just saw in AgentConnect (the AFKL information platform for travel agents in France) that AF has posted a Travel Advisory notice saying that there is 0 availability for hotels in CDG and ORY and around between 17 and 23/06 because of the Paris Air Show at Le Bourget. It says that, in case of irrops in CDG, pax will be asked to book an hotel direct and claim reimbursement afterwards The max amounts allowed are... :
- 120€ per room and per night
- 25€ per person for meals
- 50€ for transportation to/from airport.
I don't know where and what kind of hotel you can find in the Paris area for 120 E during the Paris Air Show... Even outside this show, you will end up in most cases in a dump place. I think they confuse between their negotiated rates and the public rates...
- 120€ per room and per night
- 25€ per person for meals
- 50€ for transportation to/from airport.
I don't know where and what kind of hotel you can find in the Paris area for 120 E during the Paris Air Show... Even outside this show, you will end up in most cases in a dump place. I think they confuse between their negotiated rates and the public rates...
A better way would be to acknowledge that there are no rooms available, that in case of IRROPs alternatives need to be sorted. For example by setting up field beds at the airport, or something similar.
Jun 21, 2019, 6:19 am
#27
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 373
What I find absurd is that they know that there is no availability. Not just on their negotiated hotels/rates, but anywhere. So even if they would offer a higher amount, nobody would be able to actually claim on that through receipts if its not possible to get a room (Unless they increase to 800 a night and people would start booking the presidential suite..)
A better way would be to acknowledge that there are no rooms available, that in case of IRROPs alternatives need to be sorted. For example by setting up field beds at the airport, or something similar.
A better way would be to acknowledge that there are no rooms available, that in case of IRROPs alternatives need to be sorted. For example by setting up field beds at the airport, or something similar.
Jun 21, 2019, 6:28 am
#28
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As this flight has started in Berlin -> you can easily sue KLM for the full hotel costs in Berlin court (Amtsgericht Wedding). EC261/2004 claims can be lodged at the court that has jurisdiction over the airport, where the flight has started - if the airline has no legal seat in that country.
Jun 21, 2019, 6:35 am
#29
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As this flight has started in Berlin -> you can easily sue KLM for the full hotel costs in Berlin court (Amtsgericht Wedding). EC261/2004 claims can be lodged at the court that has jurisdiction over the airport, where the flight has started - if the airline has no legal seat in that country.
