KLM downsizes Athens
 

So KLM seems to have handed over one of its Ams-Ath frequencies to Olympic (the evening departure and morning flight back). Is this a permanent change? Did a search but didn't see any discussion...if codeshare was offered on the straight route it wouldn't be annoying, but since it isn't, this does make long weekends in Greece much less attractive if you want to stick to skyteam (and incidentally, CSA appears to have dropped Athens after April too...)

I just looked an Athens will only go to one-daily.

It is possible to book the KL-code share provided that you do not start your journey from Amsterdam (the Olympic Air operated flight coded as KL 2841/2842).

I wonder when they will offer this flight to departures ex-Amsterdam.

Yes. The change has been announced a couple months ago and is permanent (Well, for now..maybe next year things will be different). Don't expect the 20:30 flight to re-apear this summer.

Olympic has responded with extra flights. They announced the following for the summer:

AMS-ATH
OA150: 10:20AM
OA152: 20:30PM

ATH-AMS
OA149 06:30AM
OA151 16:00PM

So they introduced an extra flight, and, notice that the schedule is almost exactly the same as the 'old' KLM schedule. KLM changed their morning flight from 9:30AM to noon last year.

I have bugged KLM quite extensibly about codeshares for the new Olympic OA150/OA151 flights. These have (At least for me) excellent departure times. The answer so far has been: Most probably not, codeshares are generally published earlier. If by now they have not yet been loaded, chances of it happening are very very small. So don't count on it.

Together with the huge price hike of the KLM flights this summer I am now booked on AF and OA mostly. No status with OA but an early arrival into ATH (Before 15:45) is more important for me. Later arrival means a missed connection with hours of waiting, and since I fly up and down about twice a month that kinda kills the mood.

As for CSA: They used to have two daily flights. A redeye and a daily flight. The daily one used to be my favorite (and cost-effective) alternative to KLM. Last year CSA reduced their flights to one daily, the redeye. And now this one is/will be dropped as well.

OP: One alternative for you might be Alitalia. In the summer they have quite a few flights into Athens. You can also combine KLM and Alitalia flights, although that has to be booked through a 3rd party travel agency. I used to take the 7:20AM (KLM) out of AMS, change in Rome, with arrival around ~14:00 (On Alitalia) in Athens. And back with the direct KLM flight at ~17:00.

Always useful info on this from you Xandrios. Sadly I like taking the late evening flight to Ath and returning on the super-early morning flight.

I note that options for this schedule have decreased dramatically recently , with Malev's demise (they had 8:30pm-ish departures from Ams, 5:20 am from Ath), CSA's cancellation of service, and Olympic's now taking over KLM's route and making it a (slightly) later service. In this context, Alitalia is less than useful

Makes sense in the light of their discussion of lesser emphasis on Southern European destinations mentioned in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-f...-schedule.html

Has there been any explanation about the rationale behind this strategic move?

Is Alitalia a factor here?

There are a bunch of A3 (Aegean) codeshares with LH connecting through FRA or MUC.

Just click on the link and you'll find it. :) Main reason is the poor economic situation in southern Europe that will undoubtedly have led to a decline in southern European passengers on KLM.

I'd have thought the reasons were fairly self-evident

Bloomberg: Athens 2011 passenger traffic declines 6.5%

A 6.5% reduction does not quite warrant a 50% cut though. Plus the article outlines that the reduction is mostly domestic traffic due to the economic fall of Greece. International traffic, while less than before, only went down by 3%.

KLM flights to Athens have always been packed till the rim in the summer. So I am also quite baffled by the decision to cut 50% of the capacity at the end of spring, right at the moment the demand will grow a lot for the summer.

I agree that they are v. full in summer--and often in winter too. However the biz class sections always seem particularly empty....may impact profitability of flight...

Crap.

Olympic Air has just canceled _all_ AMS-ATH flights for the summer

Crap.

All availability has been removed from the OA booking engine, although existing bookings have not yet been notified (At least not everybody). I haven't heard anything from them for my bookings this summer. Are they required to rebook on a comparable flight this far out? (2+ months)

No, only refund :(

So now that's off the chart, there is only one ATH flight? :eek:

I hope they will be lenient and also rebook...but I'm afraid youre right. On the other hand, I have not yet been contacted by them about the cancellations...which is strange if they only plan to refund.

...and the Transavia flight. Every other day in winter, daily in summer. Actually I'm gonna try Transavia to ATH this week due to the Malev fiasco. Not really looking forward to though..

I flew Transavia last week to Tenerife and it was very, very pleasant! Seat pitch was, frankly, the best I've ever had on a narrow body! Great for a 4 hour flight.
Only, small, downside is the BOB but the FA's are very nice and pleasant and boarding was quick and efficient (from a regional airport). If it weren't for the perks like mileage, lounge and C check-in, I'd use HV more.

Thats good to know, thanks :) Food and drinks is all paid right? Perhaps I should make a mini-trip report of my experiences flying them this week as well.

Excuse my ignorance, but what does BOB stand for?

Buy on Board.

Any chance of KLM reinstating its flight or Aegean starting service?

Aegean were quick off the mark to swoop on BUD when Malev collapsed.

Unless there is some reason why AMS-ATH traffic has totally collapsed, then I'm sure Aegean will sit up and take notice at this drastic cut on this particular route. Given that they currently operate 12 flights weekly between BRU and ATH (though I have no idea what their summer schedule is like!), then perhaps they could make a stab at it...

Please do!
They are and stay a holiday carrier but are certainly not like Ryanair or Easy.
You do have to pay for baggage though! (forgot that as with me it was included as part of a holiday package)

I asked KLM: No plans at the moment.

Aegean I am not sure. During the whole A3/OA merger debacle it seemed that the EU did not allow Aegean to fly to the same destinations as OA (Or something of the sorts). Not sure if they are allowed to fly to AMS now..

Two (or more!) separate airlines flying on the same route is the very definition of competition!

I expect that the issue you are referring to is that, if there is a great degree of overlap of destinations served by OA and A3, and there are no other airlines serving many of those routes, that the proposed merged airline would end up with a lot of destinations served only by that single new airline - meaning that they would have a monopoly on many of their routes.

I am sure that the EU and any competition body would have no reason to stop Aegean from flying to AMS (if they wished to fly that route, which is another question entirely)

True, and a 6.5% reduction in overall traffic doesn't mean that all routes into and out of ATH are evenly down by 6.5%. Presumably some routes are more affected than others. And presumably KLM didn't make this decision lightly, or without valid reasons.

But it seems as if the fall in traffic is accelerating. That article states that traffic (both domestic and international) was down 11% in December 2011.

They could fly to AMS every 10 minutes if it took their fancy and had the resources and slots to waste. Airlines do not have to apply for traffic rights within the EU. This is entirely liberalised as long as you are a licensed EU carrier (which A3 obviously is). There are some limited exceptions for certain routes under a PSO regime but that is the exception and AMS-ATH would clearly not be a PSO route.

A3 can fly to the same destinations as OA if it wants to, at any rate within the EU. The problem with the merger was precisely the reverse: competition between OA and A3 would have been eliminated.

Thanks, that does indeed make sense. The funny thing is that with both airlines serving different destinations, there was no competition anyway..

Anyway, I was at ATH yesterday and asked at the Olympic and KLM ticket desks.

- Olympic said nothing has been confirmed, but it seems to be final. However there still is a possibility that they will re-add flights to AMS for this summer.
- The OA lady offered me to refund my ticket directly, but also said chances are that Olympic will rebook on other carriers later on. I chose to wait a bit more.

- At the KLM desk it became clear this was a very radical action, with no notice whatsoever to KLM. They confirmed that KLM did indeed reduce capacity on the route due to the OA codeshares.
- The KLM lady expects that KLM will re-add at least one flight, and it should happen soon. The new schedule will go into effect in 3 weeks from now.

Unfortunately I didn't have time to ask Aegean as well, but I doubt they would have been able to tell me anything.

It was good to read that Greek newspapers have judged OA quite a lot on the issue. They ran an article outlining the fact that OA and KL had just recently started a partnership through codeshares, and that OA has changed direction suddenly and without notice. From now on OA will focus more on eastern flights, Israel mainly, and not western Europe.

Is there anybody else here that was impacted by the cancelations? I booked Malev, they went under...I replaced with OA and now thats cancelled too. Meanwhile ticket prices are through the roof, and if I need to rebook myself it will cost at least twice as much from what I originally paid. Anybody else waiting for the right moment to book alternative flights?

From when on has OA cancelled their flights? I'm travelling to Greece in April but have no idea whom I'm flying with (certainly not KL :( ).

The problem was not on international routes but rather on domestic routes within Greece. Specifically, the EU Commission identified 9 domestic routes (including ATH-SKG) on which competition would disappear altogether and give the new airline a monopoly with no realistic prospect of any other airline entering the market to challenge it.

NickB: Thanks for clarifying!

You have 1600+ posts here but don't know whom youre flying with? ;-) Just kidding!

Are you flying from AMS? Which flight numbers?

KL leaves AMS 12:05, OA at 10:20AM and 20:30PM. For the return KL is 17:20PM, the rest is OA. Unless of course you are booked under HV flight numbers, which will be operated by Transavia.

It's a school trip so I don't have much info on the flights yet. I wondered when the flights reduction is.

Well a renewed KL flight sounds like good news...and glad to hear olympic is being judged harshly...do you have any links to the coverage or which paper it was (Kathimerini? Ta Nea?)

http://www.tovima.gr/finance/article/?aid=446197

I'm still doubting what to do with various tickets to Greece this summer. KLM prices have shot up to insane height overnight, affordable tickets left over is Transavia or something like Lufthansa/swiss. I'd like to book Skyteam but its getting harder each day this way..

Thanks for the link--the speculation on twice a day to amsterdam being replaced by 3 times a week to israel is a bit weird, but then again, so is olympic. The Best skyteam combination for me now is the 4:30 pm flight to CDG connecting to Air France, with a return on he 17:20 KL flight. If they do bring in a new flight, I assume it may be affordable until they fill some seats on it

I'm happy to report that Olympic came through!

They contacted me about the booking and offered me the choice of a refund or rebooking. I asked to be rebooked on an AF (outgoing) and KL (incoming) flights. They accepted and I just received a new ticket. AF in E class, KL in Q class.

So while I'm quite happy about that, prices have increased tremendously and for the rest of my travel to ATH I'm pretty much screwed. Unless somebody indeed adds flights..

Sorry to keep on harping about this issue...but I notice that Aegean has started flights to Prague (replacing the cancelled OK flights) AND Tblisi of all places, and NOT Amsterdam--can traffic really be down that much on the route? I'm forced to resort to weird Alitalia/KL combinations at the moment...

It seems so. They hinted a couple of times that they might open ATH-AMS, but I doubt it will happen now that the summer schedule has started.

I'm flying through CDG to ATH these days, but it is quite a pain. Last time I flew KL direct it was very crowded, however that was just a few days before easter so the stats might be off on that one. One thing is sure though: Prices have gone through the roof. Where KL flights used to start at 220 euro last year, they are now at least 300+. (Also for the winter season).

Oh and that's the other thing...AF seems to have 4/5 flights a day--why not give one to Amsterdam AF/KL? Schlepping through Paris or Rome is really not that fun...it turns out I much preferred connections in Prague--super simple.

Judging from Slide 91 of the Investor Day Presentation, KLM may be downsizing ATH even further in the future!

http://i50.tinypic.com/dpbmzd.jpg

The one daily flight they have now is full to the brim, any day, every day. And prices on this flight are generally 50% more than they used to be. They currently have a monopoly on the route (Not counting HV with semi-seasonal service), and are (ab)using that to the fullest.

For sure traffic has gone down, but cutting more would seem too much. At least at this point in time.

I recently flew AMS-FRA-ATH with LH and both outbound and inbound I noticed Greek parties on the AMS-FRA segment. Especially inbound on the return this was very obvious. In other words, the process of moving to competitors is already well underway.. (Myself included, over the next months I will try LH, LX and OS on the route)

Its about time for A3 and OA to merge and expand their international network to AMS. Its becoming quite clear now that OA has been reducing international routes (including Amsterdam) in order to improve chances on getting European approval to merge. Lets get that over with and start offering flights again..

New flights!
 

I just noticed that for S13 a new flight has been added: KL1577 ATH-AMS. Schedule:

7:50 AMS 12:05 ATH
13:05 ATH 15:40 AMS

So far it seems only bookable for saturdays and sundays, and no low(er) fare buckets available. (Starting at T)

For me personally the departure time out of AMS is perfect, albeit I prefer to fly out on Friday. And availability in T only is sad (=expensive eco fare), but that will hopefully change in the future.

[edit]
Thanks to airlineroute to provide some more information: From 1JUL there will be 2 daily flights, 9 weekly from 7SEPT. Yay!! For me personally this is a huge improvement!