First class coming?
 

Barger is quoted today at the JP Morgan conference saying with the success of EML, a seperate class maybe introduced. How does everyone feel about that?


I am for it if it starts to attract more business flyers. They want a power port, a drink, and boarding priority along with miles.

Here is a link to the Bloomberg article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...5RI&refer=home

At the DO I was pretty much laughed out of the room when I asked about it. Either she was very good at misdirection or it would be a pretty big surprise for them to make the change. It would be particularly interesting to see if they keep EML and also add EMBR (even more butt room) seats, or if they scale back on the EML to keep the number of seats at 150.

Trading in 2 rows of 6 for 3 rows of 4 keeps the same number of seats, but requires an extra row to be squeezed in. The front of the plane has 288" of seats in it. If the EMBR seats will have 38" pitch, which I think is likely, then that would take up 114" of the pitch available. Four more rows of regular EML is another 152", leaving space for not even another row of regular seats (288-152-114 = 22"). If the scrap EML (except fro the exit row) then they'd have 114" for EMBR and 174" of regular seats, which is 5 rows. That's still one row fewer than they have today in the front half of the plane, so you're down six seats.

They could do 3 rows of 40" pitch, 7 rows of 38" pitch (through the exit row) and then reduce the back half of the plane to 32" to match the E190s. That would allow them to add 3 rows in the back half. That's 25 total rows, but still 6 seats short. Maybe intermixing the EML and normal seats would help account for the issue that the exit rows have to be where they are with the pitch that they have, but it would be difficult to do it without losing seats.

I think it sux that they don't let you redeem trueBlue points towards EML seats without paying extra $30 per seat. (JFK - SXM)

Wonder if the proposed first class will require additional points or more money in addition to the 100 reward points.

--Russ

Undoubtedly it would. But it would be a clear benefit if you could upgrade into the wider seats for, say, 25 TB points.

If the motive for a sort-of F product is to attract more business travelers, I say again that lack of F is not nearly as big a problem as infrequent flights, no interlining, and TB's overall lameness including no international redemption.

Why should you get EML for free on a reward redemption? The redemption is for a seat. The payment is for the upgrade to EML. If they introduce this and do not charge extra - both for paid tix and reward travel - then it defeats the whole point of generating additional revenue.

Of course, introducing EMBR seats is a big step towards getting rid of the egalitarian attitude that B6 has tried to engender in their service and attitude. EML was a very small step compared to EMBR.

Well this comes as a complete opposite to what we asked with the introduction of the EML section. I don't know if Dave was asked directly but the response to the first class question was that at the time the advantage was for us to not put in a seperate class of service. It was figured that more people would benefit from a seperate section that they could upgrade to for a minimal charge.

Perhaps Lufthansa is pushing for a seperate class for their customers who might transfer to us if the codeshare is started. Or possbly with the massive reductions in service from other legacy carriers there is a lot of business customers who are looking to take their business elsewhere and while the EML section is great they are looking for the 2x2 seating and the other benefits that come with a seperate class of service.

Dave has said that we need to attract more and more business customers who travel no matter what the economy is doing. This is a sure way to do that.

Why would it need to be 2x2? wouldn't you be able to do a 3x2 to get a little extra room without sacrificing too many seats?

That and a real Frequent Flyer/Elite program would bring my 180k + miles a year back from Delta and Continental.

Doing 3x2 and keeping the seats equal width would mess up the aisle. Or you could have 3 EML on one side and 2 EMBR on the other and only lose one seat per row, but you still lose seats.

I think that the real FF program is a bigger deal than F, particularly for the short and mid-con flights.

Unless B6 adopts the flexible configuration seats some of the European airlines use.

EML on one side, upgrade for $30 or 6 TrueBlue points, EMBR seats on the other, upgrade for $50 or 12 TrueBlue points (transcon), offer elite lane access for FF, and maybe priority boarding (probably asking to much as it is), and you would have a program that would win my business back.

You would also have a program that would attract Tall/POS customers.

Yes, they did laugh at you when you asked my question at the DO. Well, maybe this means that they will not only have a first class but BOB as well LOL.

I think First Class ticket costs would have to make up the price of the missing seats, for instance if they lost 6 seats the price would be the average for those 6 seats divided by the number of EMBR seats added to the current cost of a regular seat and maybe some additional profit.

You mean regular Y seats with the middle blocked and an armrest/table inserted? They might try that and call it "F" but the seat isn't actually any wider, and that's what people are talking about, not a blocked middle seat.

Interesting idea on elite lane for FF, but how do you define that? There has to be some metric other than enrolled in the TrueBlue program, right?

At the B6 JFK tour, we were told by the person in charge of True Blue that B6 didn't want people to fly them for the FF program benefits, but for the B6 experience.

And that to me misses the point of hooking folks into the allure of a program. I'm a Platinum AAdvantage member not because of AA's old fleet or at seat comfort (with LRTC) or old school video screens or paid snacks in Y, but because the tangible benefits of their AAdavantage program make up for the lackluster Y class product.

jetBlue planes lack hot food catering, which would make a true first class difficult to achieve.

The B6 experience was great when I was flying 3x a year. It is not so hot when I fly 3x a month.

I already miss the days when you could redeem trueBlue awards for any flights, anywhere they fly and any seats on the plane.


Seems like the next step in "generating revenue" would be to charge different amount of points for different award flights.... 100 tb points for JFK - BOS, 200 tb points for JFK - FLL, 500 tb points for JFK - SFO and gasp... 1000 tb points for JFK - SXM?


--Russ

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

TrueBlue has had restricted inventory forever. They used to have a different algorithm for releasing the seats (basically 2 on every flight) and now the revenue management dictates that some routes and/or dates will not see reward seats, but "any seat, any time" wasn't the case.

As for tiered redemptions, I would not be surprised to see that if/when trans-oceanic rewards come in to play. Until that time not likely. And certainly not with the numbers you've suggested. I would imagine that domestic or Americas will remain one level and TATL will be another, just like all the other airlines.

Perhaps JetBlue should call their front cabin "business class" instead? A lot of companies in other countries still pay for "business class", but not "first class".

This would probably generate more revenue.

Employees of these companies when travelling domestically in the U.S often find themselves at the back of the plane as a result because the U.S. airlines branding their front cabin as "first class".

I want my old Jet Blue back... even though that will never happen.


I don't like the idea of them being "just like all the other airlines" either.


Sorry!

--Russ

I understand that, but the question is are you willing to trade your nostalgia for TATL redemptions and additional destinations that they can only achieve with partners? I am.

I've sat this one out to read some replies, and as usual, very interesting insight here.

First of all, it all comes down to the bottom line. You better believe that no decisions are made without serious number crunching, endless meetings, etc. While "premium" may be a revenue generator, I am doubtful it would work in the short term. I've learned to never say never especially with this industry, but allow me to state my reasons for it not working within let's say at least the next 2 years (probably more):


As it is, JetBlue is proud of a very egalitarian environment. Sure, EML moved slightly away from that - but when you think about it, every single customer still gets the full "JetBlue Experience." However, now you just have the option to slightly upgrade that experience. Keep in mind that it's hard to argue any domestic coach product out there comes close to or beats JetBlue. And I am talking about the standard 34" seats here to be fair. Sure times have changed but with the recent launch of Happy Jetting, that alone is good enough reason to stay away from sending a mixed signal to customers, at least for the time being.

EML was the fourth cabin modification the A320 has seen since its JetBlue debut about 8 and a half years ago. Although the expense was low, think about the cost of changing the cabin yet again. Plus, the idea of no food heating ability came up. Now's not the best time to start adding weight back to an aircraft. I strongly believe EML was the consensus of a great, well articulated project.

JetBlue's market is not the road warrior. Sure, they are targeting business travelers now more than ever, but not the type that would demand such a product. VX's first class is a tiny fraction of the entire domestic market. Other domestic F cabins are laughable. EML seems to be a success, so why change now?

After listening to the web cast, I gathered that the media once again loves to exaggerate. All Dave basically said is "nothing is being ruled out...everything is on the table." I think EML is here to stay for a while. Just my $.02...

No.@:-)

They could do what AirTran does and put in F-size seats but no hot meals and call it "business class" instead of first class.

I am a big fan of AirTran business class.